HELP - gas isn't getting to the fuel pump

[tricia]

I recently purchased a 1986 Chevy Scottsdale 4 wheel drive truck. Pump the gas twice and it would start right up and start immediately for the rest of the day. The only problem was the gas tank leaked so I took it in to get the tank replaced with a used tank. Unfortunately they sent the wrong tank and my mechanic couldn't find another anywhere (my truck has a 16 gallon tank). The original tank was already off so we decided to try patching it, which worked - it no longer leaks. He also coated the tank with some sort of underbody stuff.

It didn't want to start, however, after the repairs. Finally, they got it running and I took it home - set out to get hay and it kept killing. With the help of a neighbor I got it back home and borrowed the neighbor's truck to get my hay. My mechanic came out and found a kink in the fuel line which he fixed. I made one run for a roll of hay and then it sat for a week until I needed another roll of hay - once again I couldn't keep it running and then it wouldn't start at all.

My neighbor changed the fuel filter for me and he checked the fuel pump, which is new, and it is building pressure properly but only air is coming through, no gas. he blew into the gas line and the bubbly gurgle that should have been there was very very faint - not right at all.

Everybody is stumped as to what the problem is - the mechanic said that the lines that had to be reconnected are different sizes so there was no chance of crossing them - which was one of the things my neighbor thought might be the culprit. The mechanic thought there might be some debris lodged in the carbeurator but since no gas is getting that far I doubt that could be it. He also said something about it possibly being a vacuum line. I'm wondering if when they removed the tank the first time, expecting it to be trashed, they might have just dropped it or thrown it and damaged something - would that be enough to damage the float in the tank? It would seem to me that if air is getting through to the fuel pump, then some gas should be able to get through as well. Could something be causing a vacuum after the truck is run causing the line to kink again?

If anybody out there has any ideas on this I would really appreciate hearing them asap. The truck is being towed back to the shop, probably today and I am desperate.

I really will appreciate any suggestions!

[gldevall]

Does it have gas in it? Fuel gauge may not be working and you may have ran it all out. The sealer he put in may have the line partially blocked somewhere.

[old Rusty C10]

im betting you have a blockage. drop the tank remove the lines and dump gas into a bucket let the truck run off of thatsee if you can get it to idle and then you know for sure. only other thing i can think of is if the vent line is blocked you could be air locked but thats a rarity. alot of times when ya put them sealers in they wind up blocking the sock or something cause ya dont let em set up enough and they come off. if you have to patch a tank ya solder it
by the way welcome to the board!!

[tricia]

Thanks, guys! I'll pass what you have said on to my mechanic and hope that he can solve the problem. And thank you for the welcome - it is nice to have a place to ask questions.

[allthrtl]

Those tank sealers SUK!!! Most likely is the stuff they tried to coat it will has come off and is stoping everything up...I would start hunting a new tank, they shouldn't be that hard to find, they made a gazillion of these trucks, someone is bound to have a tank......Good Luck....

[tricia]

I wondered about that, too, but several people have told me that the tank sealer worked for them perfectly and they had no problem afterwards - I wasn't sure about the undercoating on the tank but it sounded like a good idea. The vent isn't clogged and there is plenty of gas in the truck - my gas gauge does work. Thanks for your input!

[1972C10]

possibilty of a hole in a gas line causing it to suck air not getting full suction on the gas

[crackajacka]

the sock in the tank maybe? or ya sucked up some tank sealer.

[tricia]

If the problem is that tank sealer got into the line, or it is the sock (??I have no idea what that is!??) why would the truck run one time long enough to drive about 30 miles? The first time, when I drove it home from the garage it ran perfectly all the way home and then when I went to use it again it wasn't getting gas - there was a kink in the gas line and when that was fixed it ran perfectly long enough to get a roll of hay - about 30 miles round trip. Then it sat for a week and I had the same problem again. There is approximately 1/2 tank of gas in it - could there be something happening when the gas level gets down to a certain point?

Once again, I want to thank you for your responses - I really appreciate the help you are offering!

Tricia:

[tricia]

OOPS - I tried to edit but it said I didn't have permission! When I said I had the same problem again I meant that it isn't getting gas, not that there is a kink in the line.

[Jonboy]

I think you can buy an aftermarket tank for about $100 for your truck. If you are having trouble getting a used one, this might be the way to go. FWIW, they are the same on both sides, so maybe you can find someone whose dual tank truck doesn't switch anymore and they want to get rid of their tank.

[allthrtl]

Tricia, the sock is like a filter in the tank, a screen. If dislodged tank sealer is floating around in the tank it could block the openings, or sock, sometimes and then be fine other times.

The idea behind tank sealers if fine, I have seen many instances where they worked fine, BUT, it is an incredibly long and tedious process to do it right. You have to use an acid solution to make sure every speck of rust is out of the tank, then etch the tank for about 24hrs, then coat the tanks which can take a couple of days to do, on top of letting it cure.... If you rush thru any one of these steps, your going to have problems.

In my Harley days, we used to coat all aftermarket tanks prior to painting, but it was such a PITA that stop doing it for customers and recommend they spend a few extra bucks and buy Harley tanks that already had a lining, a powder coat type finish.....

Good Luck....

[tricia]

I'm back!! Thought the problem was solved and headed home with my truck yesterday and it quit about two blocks from the shop. We need to dig a little deeper, guys!

My mechanic installed a new sock and it still wouldn't run - he then discovered the distributer cap was completely burned out and the rotor button was burned, too - he replaced them and it ran for him - he said it idled for about 45 minutes. But it quit on me and back it went. Then he took out what I think he called the ignition modulator (replaces points) and sent it out to be tested - it was ok but all the jelly was gone, which he replaced when he reinstalled it. Then he replaced the coil. Still won't stay running - now he is going to take the fuel pump out.

I think the distributor cap burned up from all that trying to start it when it wasn't getting gas - he says it is unrelated and that sometimes things just happen like this but I smelled it and had mentioned the smell to him and that only happened after many attempts at starting the truck. It just doesn't make sense to me that a truck that ran PERFECTLY would suddenly have all these problems without them somehow being related. As I mentioned before, the fuel pump was new and had been working perfectly until the gas tank was repaired.

Any ideas? Please? This is getting awfully expensive!!

Thanks for you help.

Tricia

[mike reeh]

my best advice is get a new mechanic. anyone who considers themselves a mechanic should have had that truck running or at least diagnosed properly the FIRST time.


it will be very easy to tell if the carb is getting fuel or not. If its not, there are only so many things that it could be. I would remove the inlet line from the fuel pump and suck manually.. If you're not getting fuel, just air, then either the tank is empty or there is a hole in the line somewhere between where your lips are, and the sock @ the sending unit (in the tank). Does the truck have dual tanks? The tank switching system might be the culprit then.

Finally, to rule out any other possible problems, the carb can be primed manually with a cup of gas and the truck should start and run as long as you keep feeding it fuel. If it still doesnt start, then you have to start looking into ignition & stuff...

oh and trying to start the truck wouldnt have affected the distributor cap. If it was burnt looking, its probably been that way for a while.. Ive personally seen some vehicles run surprisingly well with some hellacious looking cap & rotors.

keep us posted

mike

[tricia]

Thanks Mike,

He has checked out the line and has diagnosed that it is running out of gas but isn't sure why - it also wasn't firing according to him. To me, the engine doesn't sound right when it is running - it doesn't have that nice rumbly sound that it had before - sort of like if it isn't running on all cylinders. He was supposed to get back to me today but didn't - I don't know if he took the fuel pump out or not.

You did get me thinking, though - what is the sending unit in the gas tank? Could it be that it is not working properly and gas isn't being sent or does the fuel pump draw the gas? You know, if nothing else, I 'm going to be educated by the time this is over!

Please let me know about that sending unit.

Thanks,

Tricia

[allthrtl]

I agree, find a new mechanic.........Pretty simple really, either it's getting gas or it ain't, if not, work your way back....Doesn't sound like this guy knows what he's doing. On top of that, he's finding other stuff wrong so he can keep charging you while he attempts to fix his original screw up.....

[tricia]

Thank you for your input Allthrotl - I just don't know where else to go - I live in the country and this is TN - folks around here tend to take their time working on stuff, or even getting you in. It is frustrating to say the least - but I will let all of you know how it turns out!

Tricia

[mike reeh]

tricia: the sending unit is nothing special. its main purpose is that it has a little float on it that sends a signal to your gas guage to let you know how much fuel is in the tank... Other than that, its just basically a cap that attaches to the top of the fuel tank. It has a steel fuel line going to the bottom of the tank-- the pickup for the fuel system... the line goes straight up to the top of the tank, and then out the top and thats where the rest of the fuel line for the truck connects.. basically a straw.. VERY simple. It doesnt actually send fuel, the pump should suck it out. Its not out of the question that the "new" fuel pump is bad, so I wouldnt rule it out.. But if you apply vacuum by some means, to the fuel line, and you're not getting any, its probably not the pump. especially since you said it was pumping air in one of your other tests.

heres a picture of the sending unit. It looks similar to this although this one's upside down

http://jacksautoparts.com/catalog/fuel/sendingunit.jpg

mike

[Prerunner1982]

Ticia... welcome to the board, i have no input to your problem, just wanted to say welcome to our addiction. Please feel free to tell us alittle something about you... we are a family here..

[tricia]

Mike: Thank you for that explanation. I tried to email you but it said you don't accept emails - you can email me directly at pabushje@earthlink.net.

Prerunner1982: Thank you for the welcome and the invitation to the family! There really isn't much to tell about myself - I gave up my job with a law firm in 1999 to care for my mother. When she passed away in 2000 I realized I had no obligations to hold me so I moved to Tennessee from Wisconsin in 2001. It was kind of scary as I didn't know a single soul here, but I love it and have never been happier. I have two grown sons in Wisconsin (neither of which can help me out with mechanical things!!) and have been divorced for many years. I have always been horse crazy and finally am living my dream - trying to raise and sell Arabian horses. (The raising is easy - selling is harder!!) I'm presently looking for work but there aren't a lot of great jobs here and the pay scale is lower than I am used to. Sometimes I have visions of me as a bag lady pushing my grocery cart with my magnificent horses following along behind!LOLOLOL.

My older son convinced me some time ago that GM products are the only way to go and I really love my old truck. I also have a 2000 GMC Safari van, and there is a 1985 Silverado pickup sitting in my yard waiting for someone to come along and adopt it. (2 wheel drive - kept getting stuck in my pasture - the 86 has really nice mud tires plus 4 wheel drive - takes me anywhere I want to go) When my truck is running I get about 3 guys a week asking if I will sell it!

That's about it - hope I haven't bored you with too much information.

Tricia

[Prerunner1982]

take pics of the 85 and post them in the parts board, might find a proud new owner......

[tricia]

I don't think any of you guys would be interested - it runs but it isn't anything special.

So, anyway, my Scottsdale is home and running just fine. The problem was two things - first, the new sock was installed improperly and was folded over and, second, the hoses from the gas line to the fuel pump which the mechanic had replaced were left too long and when he put everything back together it bunched up and krimped. This guy is supposed to be a professional with 18 years of experience!!

Altogether he charged me just over $235 and the only thing he did right was in patching the tank - I didn't have the use of my truck for a month. It cost me an additional $30 to tow it to the mechanic who fixed it, plus $91.05 for the actual repair. Do you think I would be right in asking the first guy to reimburse me for the expense of having to have someone else fix his mistakes?

Tricia

[gchemist]

Originally posted by tricia
When my truck is running I get about 3 guys a week asking if I will sell it!

I was about to say that's the problem.
Welcome to the site. If anyone of us lived close by we probably come over and take a look for ourselves. We like working on our trucks. I do. I have yet to take it to a mechanic. It's either me or my family working on it. Only the body work has been done by others.

Don't worry about condition too much on selling your truck. I paid $850 for my truck. Wrecked and abused. But look at it now.

[tricia]

I really appreciate that thought! When I was young my dad kept my vehicles in top shape - his hobby was restoring older cars - then I got married and my husband handled it. After my divorce I always seemed to have friends who would help out. Since I moved here, though, I don't have that luxury - my neighbor is great about helping where he can but he has too much to do keeping his truck and his wife's jeep running to take on big jobs for me. If any of you move closer to Crossville be sure to look me up!!!!