Can I just rip out my AC System?

[RichardJ]

>>Also the A/C hoses go to a trans cooler looking thing in front of the radiator.<<

That thing is probably the AC Condenser.

If you have the old style, Tube & Fin Condenser, you will get better results with the R134 if you replace it with a parallel flow condenser. A couple of bucks there.

>>replace the dryer and the hoses with the new crimped style hoses...<< A couple of bucks here.

Some Flush, which I think is over priced. More $$

R12 isn't cheap and getting harder to find. If you add a couple of cans and it doesn't work, then do you decide to keep going in that direction and keep throwing money down that hole?

Can you return the heater fan and fan motor you just bought?

Your control cables are bad. Vintage air doesn't use them. You get a new fan motor. Pre-crimped ready to go barrier hoses. Parallel flow condenser. You wouldn't need that new heater core you just bought.
Do the math.

Do you now have gauges and vacuum pump?
Ask the guys that wouldn't charge with R12, what they want to evacuate and charge a new Vintage Air System. Call and ask Vintage Air (Texas) who they recommend in your area.

I am not recommending Vintage Air just using them as an example. Their Sure-Fit kit is $1400 +tax, but includes things you have bought and up dated things you have yet to get.

Getting rid of an under dash unit, in my book, calls for any alternative solution.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by RichardJ

R12 isn't cheap and getting harder to find.

I bought 5 cans at the Pomona swap meet for $10 a can...less than r-134 here Seems everybody has gone r-134 and the r-12 doesn't sell any more. I offered the guy $50 for what he had and he said I was the only guy to have inquired about it in several years

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

You just brought up a good point. I think I'm going to try and keep the hang on AC system, but I want to replace the dryer and the hoses with the new crimped style hoses and convert to R134a.

How and where do I get the right length hoses with the newer crimped style ends like the newer cars?

OK if the old compressor was making noise, it's bad. You want new compressor, crimped style hoses, R134A fittings, and a new drier. This kit comes with ALMOST everything you need, you fit up the lines, cut them and mark them for alignment then take them to an a/c shop and have them "swedged". Everything with a rubber o-ring seal will need to come off and get a new seal.

IMPORTANT: what kind of controls does your old unit have, expansion valve? Can you take pictures of everything outside of both the inlet and outlet sides of the evaporator core (knee-knocker unit)? This system comes with a "pressure switch" that might be for a cycling system but you would have to ask the seller.

You see, the parts that control the pressures will have to be 134A compatible. Might be a simple orfice tube replacement, might end up being something more complicated/expensive.


Oh, and detailed pictures of the condenser. There is a certain type of condenser that is not compatible with 134A so we need to eliminate that.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANDEN-STYLE...b240d8&vxp=mtr

DON'T GIVE UP until you know IF it can be done and HOW MUCH it would cost to make the old system work.

You might not want to spend that much money then find out the evaporator core leaks. If the evaporator core is dry and free of oil, that's a good sign. Always use a back-up wrench and never put any strain on the evaporator core or condenser core.

[1972BlueC20]

Here are more pics as requested :

[1972BlueC20]

More :

[1972BlueC20]

Final :

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Final :

OK, look at this picture and tell me if it seems to be exactly what you have.

OK the hoses going through the firewall to the knee knocker unit-the small one (high pressure hose) appears to have a capillary expansion valve, and I don't see any valving on the big one (suction hose). Correct?

Some have a "suction" or POA valve for better pressure regulation on the big suction hose, and that would work with a different expansion valve. I think you need a 134A expansion valve that looks something like the one below.

I can't tell for sure what condenser you have, it appears to be a flat tube serpentine. It's not optimal size either and that's a consideration for 134A, you want to try to cover as much of the opening in the core support as you can but it's hard to get real close to the top due to the latch assembly. Look at this link and try to tell what you have.

https://www.google.com/search?q=para...0QsAQ#imgdii=_

Time you add it all up, you might be better off with a complete new in-dash system. If you really want to do it I'd remove the old expansion valve and make sure I could get a replacement one good for 134A before spending any money. If you were inclined to do the work yourself, you might be able to find a used parallel flow condenser at the U-Pull-It but it would have to fit your hose fittings then you would have to remove the old expansion valve and bring it in to an a/c parts place and match up a 134A valve to replace the R-12 valve. All this plus the compressor kit I showed you.

Check out the new condensers on e-bay, they have various sizes you would want the biggest that would fit in there. Something like this-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONDENSER-PA...638225&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...s&_sacat=33542
I say either go all in or all out. Add a shot of R-12 refer oil to try to quiet your old compressor and hang a set of gauges on to see if you need to add R-12 OR get a whole new system. On an old system like that you can't fix just one leak; you fix one then another springs up then another so you have to do all the rubber stuff all at once.

IF everything under the dash is good, the compressor kit about 205.00$ with hoses, drier, high pressure cut-off switch. A new expansion valve should be less than 50.00$ something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Ad...76422e&vxp=mtr
Labor to swedge the lines I'm guessing around 100.00$ or more.
R-134A about 3 cans. You are looking at around 5-600.00$ in parts. System has to be evacuated and charged. You have to have an adequate radiator fan and shroud system. You might get by for half the price of an in-dash complete system but you still have an obsolete knee-knocker (not knocking it pun intended). Are you up for it?

Clear as mud? Let me know what you want to do or if you have other questions.

[1972BlueC20]

Thanks so much for the help man! You're a life saver!


Ok, so I don't think that I have a parallel condenser. It's dated 1982 on the part. LOL. It also doesn't look like the parallel condensers in the photos.

As for an expansion value, I honestly don't see one anywhere. Where the hoses go into the knee knocker, it's wrapped in black rubber-ish material. I can't see what's wrapped unless I unwrap it.

Seriously if it's gonna cost me around $500-$600 and countless hours searching at parts yards and ordering from here and there online I'd rather pay even DOUBLE and get everything I need delivered to my door.

I'm not as knowledgeable as you, and trying to get everything I need without bugging you constantly or someone like you would be a friggin nightmare for me to do by myself....I can just see it now, that I'll either order the wrong stuff or get frustrated and break something trying to install it, or after everything is done it won't cool worth a crap because of something I did wrong.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


So assuming that I want to just rip everything out for now, and get a new hang on type knee knocker system later (old air products or vintage air) before next summer comes......here is what I'm thinking....let me know if I can do this all :


I will push down on a schroeder valve, if there is pressure then I will take it and have it evacuated. Or just accidentally crack a hose....ooppps... I will then bust everything apart and remove all the components.

The V Belt that is running the compressor is only running the compressor. It's attached to the crankshaft pulley, the compressor and 2 tension looking pulleys. I'm assuming I can just remove this belt all together correct? The compressor is sitting on a platform type bracket, and the bracket runs to the passenger side exhaust manifold and a few other places to secure itself. I think the other 2 tension pulleys are attached to the bracket itself.

The other v belt runs off the crankshaft to the alternator and waterpump. I don't have power steering so that's it. I'm assuming this is the only belt I need running. Right?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

Thanks so much for the help man! You're a life saver!

Yes, you can do all that, remove everything associated with that system including brackets and pulleys (you might need shorter bolts for the crank pulley if after you remove it the old bolts are too long). Don't worry about cracking a hose, there are not "freon police" watching you LOL. If it makes you feel better, I promise that every molecule of freon ever manufactured will eventually make it's way into the atmosphere regardless of how many times it's recycled. They knew the only way to stop it was to stop manufacturing it, they did, now the ozone hole is shrinking.

Put the old system on craigslist and maybe someone will need the old parts that are still good. Hey, one man's junk is another man's treasure LOL.

I would not get another knee knocker, I'd get an under dash system that replaces everything including the heater. I hope you haven't spent too much money on it so far. Again, craigslist to help recoup money spent on new parts there are a lot of a/c-less trucks out there. Some with knee-knockers!

[1972BlueC20]

yeah i was liking the old products system that goes in the dash HERE :

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalo...te-p-8169.html

Or Vintage Air HERE :

http://www.vintageair.com/2014catalo...08-15%2037.pdf

My only question here is, I guess you just cut holes in the dash for the vents? What is the best way to cut the holes without screwing it up? LOL

Also, I wonder if one is better than the other (Vintage VS Old Air Products)

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

yeah i was liking the old products system that goes in the dash HERE :

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalo...te-p-8169.html

Or Vintage Air HERE :

http://www.vintageair.com/2014catalo...08-15%2037.pdf

My only question here is, I guess you just cut holes in the dash for the vents? What is the best way to cut the holes without screwing it up? LOL

Also, I wonder if one is better than the other (Vintage VS Old Air Products)

That's a nice looking system, even comes with 3 way heater valve.

I have no experience with Vintage VS Old Air products.

As far as cutting holes, I'm thinking pilot hole then hole-saw. However, I'm sure it comes with instructions or you might want to call them before ordering and ask them. They might provide a template for the pilot hole, I'd expect them to or at least dimensions.

I don't see compressor hoses or crank pulley in the picture, nor on the "included" list. I'd call them first and make sure you get every single thing you need. I don't think they supply refrigerant either.

Also, don't know if your radiator fan will be up to task. You might want to get one of the three options listed to get condenser airflow.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

My only question here is, I guess you just cut holes in the dash for the vents? What is the best way to cut the holes without screwing it up? LOL

Also, I wonder if one is better than the other (Vintage VS Old Air Products)

Oops, I didn't address the center vent. Again, I'm thinking they will provide a template or directions. IMO, a dremel with a cut-off wheel would be best to avoid wrinkling the metal. The center vent should over-lap the edges so it should look OK, same as on the round vents.

[hdff]

Hey 1970bluec20, how hard was it changing out the heater core? Mine started leaking and I just bypassed it for now. I am considering replacing my factory air(not working) with a vintage air system. I talked to a guy with a sweet 72 sb at the Saturday nite gathering in Kemah a month or so ago and he gave me the name of someone that installs them. I plan on calling him in the next week or so to get a quote.

[magwakeenercew2jh]

I've installed three VA systems...all the last (not latest) generation and all into non-air cabs. The ones with cables.

To answer the cutting questions, it's a cakewalk. Slow and steady with a pilot and metal hole saw for the side vents,
and a grinder with a cutting disk and a Dremel for the top vent. Very good templates included in the sure fit kit.

You can look in the catalog on line or call them and tell them what belt system you're running.

To you, they are local.

Also, I cut and marked the included hoses and sent them back for crimping. No charge.

Because everything is there (I like to use a not-included air cab control box in the dash), even though I have gages,
I hook everything up...It's all fresh and new.

And then, I take it to the pros for evac, pressure test, and filling.....Done deal.

[1972BlueC20]

@ HDFF

The heater core wasn't really hard, just time consuming. I'm not done yet just because I haven't had time to finish and I ran out of daylight the day I started it. If you have a factory AC truck then you'll have to go through the dash I believe....It's different to mine. The non AC trucks go from the outside.

Please let me know if you find out who installs the ac systems, I would love to get a quote too when I'm ready!!!


@ magwakeenercew2jh

Your truck looks great.....I too like the idea of using a factory AC control unit....is that hard to make work? What's involved in doing it that way versus using the vintage air or old air products control panel? Also, it looks like you used factory air vents on the driver and passenger sides....did you?? If so, I like the way those look better than the one's that come with the AC kits.

As for the block off plates that cover up the heater / AC box.....what about the circular hole to the left that you can't see in your picture? Does the kit come with a circular block off plate too for that hole? If so, do you have a photo?


Thanks in advance guys!!

[magwakeenercew2jh]

Originally Posted by 1972BlueC20

I too like the idea of using a factory AC control unit....is that hard to make work? What's involved in doing it that way versus using the vintage air or old air products control panel? Also, it looks like you used factory air vents on the driver and passenger sides....did you?? If so, I like the way those look better than the one's that come with the AC kits.

As for the block off plates that cover up the heater / AC box.....what about the circular hole to the left that you can't see in your picture? Does the kit come with a circular block off plate too for that hole? If so, do you have a photo?
Thanks in advance guys!!

Call 'em.

The kits are set up for "with or without" factory air control units...They mix and match depending upon your need.

It's easy. Although, I'll say the hardest part is laying around under the dash to put in the cables...A task that's now, I think, not necessary with the new generation's electronic controls...and I'm sure the new control connects seamlessly to the factory control unit, as well.

Those are VA vents. Block off plate comes with the deal.