debating and questioning headlights

[mikey2409]

Originally Posted by RexDodge

X 1000 on the relay mod. I'll also toss into the mix to upgrade to an internally regulated alternator while you're at it. That really cleans up the wiring mess these trucks come with. When I did mine I also installed a remote starter solenoid. I think could have filled a 30 gallon trash can with the wire and crap I removed. Here are a couple of wiring diagrams I used. The head light diagram is for a gmc 4 headlight set up but still applies to high beam/low beam. Be sure to use circuit breakers and not a fuse on your head lights. The other schematic is what I came up with when I did my alternator swap (from this site and edited a little). I grabbed my power at that first junction off the back of the alternator instead of running (another) wire from the battery. The last pic is of a bracket I made with relays and circuit breakers. Head lights, electric fan and wipers. Just take your time, think it through and ask lots of questions if needed. It's actually an easy mod and pays off with reliability and bright headlights. Have fun!
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Great info and wiring diagram but my problem with the diagram is I have a single headlight and not a dual set up like the gmc
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[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by mikey2409

Great info and wiring diagram but my problem with the diagram is I have a single headlight and not a dual set up like the gmc
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Dual setup is exactly like the quad setup, just no separate high beams. Quad setups, when on high beam, have the outers on their high beam filament (just like duals) and add supplementary high beams so there is 4 lamps lit.

[mikey2409]

Ok now that I'm starting to understand it's best to use some relays to have the light work brighter on one of the post it said that 10.5v is based out the socket and with relays you'd get12v is that cause theres a voltage compositor or something since the previous owner used a internally regulated alt. And canned the voltage regulator since it servers no purpose cause of the swap
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[skorpioskorpio]

The lesser voltage is from resistance drop of 20+ feet of insufficient wire Gauge and oxidized 40 year old contacts in connectors and the switch. Putting in relays shortens the path and the number of contact points. I will say however that use good quality relays, I had relays put in in my Suburban to keep all 4 beams lit on high ('91 had funky headlights with single filament low beams, odd size too). Had to trace them down and remove them because they would strobe an bumpy roads. Worst headlights of any vehicle I ever owned, and no option to really replace them with anything.

[OneOffStroker]

I will be upgrading the lights on my '69 to use lenses that accept H4 bulbs, but I'm going to run HID bulbs. I agree that blue lights are not the best, and most people associate HID with blue, but it's not necessarily the case. If you get HIDs with a kelvin rating of 4000-5000, your light will be mostly white, and very bright. (OEM HIDs on high-end cars are around 4200K or so) The ricer boys and whatnot usually run the 12,000K or higher, which emits a blue to purple light, which is junk for driving, and all for show.
HID kits usually have relays in them and are often times as easy as plugging one of your 3-prong connectors directly to it, and then +12V and ground. Actually easier than hooking up mulitple relays yourself.

[skorpioskorpio]

Um, HID means High Intensity Discharge, which means no filament, which means it takes a high frequency inverter. It's not just a bulb you plug into an H4 reflector. Also color temperature is dictated by the material that the vaporized metal is and there are limited metals that can be effectively vaporized to make a HID capsule. HID has way more in common with a fluorescent tube than with a light bulb.

The real advantage to HID is in lumens per watt, and the ability to reduce packaging size to smaller form factors as new vehicles have smaller frontal areas. In two 7 inch reflectors or four 5 1/4 inch reflectors mounted in a vehicle with a frontal shape of a brick there isn't a lot of compelling reasons to use HID, especially when Halogen is far cheaper, produces a color temp that the human eye distinguishes shapes much better in and if done right can produce more usable light than is safe for oncoming drivers without really trying very hard. I never understand what the fascination with HID on an old truck is.

If a HID system is not specifically adapted for a particular vehicle it creates all kinds of ghosting, glare back, inappropriate aiming problems, and annoying glare to oncoming drivers and throws their vision out of night vision mode. Wavelengths in the bluish range are the worst color range for human night vision. You will never see night instrumentation of any aircraft, or combat vehicle with blue illumination, it's very hard to focus on and adjust too in dark conditions. Aviation instrumentation is usually red or amber which are very easy colors to adapt to when surroundings are dark.

I love the marketing BS about it being closer to daylight, under which it is common to wear eye wear that specifically blocks out what? Blue wave lengths, it is the blue wavelengths in daylight that cause the glare on your windshield, it the wavelengths that tinted windshields are designed to reduce. Why on earth would you want to specifically produce those troublesome wavelengths to drive by at night?

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by mikey2409

Ok now that I'm starting to understand it's best to use some relays to have the light work brighter on one of the post it said that 10.5v is based out the socket and with relays you'd get12v is that cause theres a voltage compositor or something since the previous owner used a internally regulated alt. And canned the voltage regulator since it servers no purpose cause of the swap
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Originally Posted by skorpioskorpio

The lesser voltage is from resistance drop of 20+ feet of insufficient wire Gauge and oxidized 40 year old contacts in connectors and the switch. Putting in relays shortens the path and the number of contact points. I will say however that use good quality relays, I had relays put in in my Suburban to keep all 4 beams lit on high ('91 had funky headlights with single filament low beams, odd size too). Had to trace them down and remove them because they would strobe an bumpy roads. Worst headlights of any vehicle I ever owned, and no option to really replace them with anything.

Exactly. The voltage drop is caused by the resistance in all the connections, small wire, and busted strands of the stranded, stock wiring. What the "relay upgrade" does is remove all that current draw. Essentially all you're doing is unplugging your stock headlight wire from the first light in the circuit and using it to turn on a relay. The relay has a set of contact points that make a connection when it is energized by the 12 volts from your headlight switch through the dimmer and all the other stock wire. When you energize a relay you actually hear the contact points click as they come together. This contact then draws current through a different circuit to what you are wanting to turn on. In this case your headlight. Use 10 or 12 gauge wire from the battery through a circuit breaker to the relay to the headlight. I would also use this opportunity to make a short, 10 or 12 gauge black wire and replace the headlights ground with it. That way your path from the battery to the light back to the battery is made with all 10 or 12 gauge wire. Whatever voltage your battery is throwing out will be what goes across the light to make it light up.

A simple test with your stock wiring is to turn on the lights then measure voltage with a volt meter at the back of the headlights. Its been years since I did it but it was on the order of 10.4 volts. Which is why your stock headlights have a yellow glow.

I bought my relays at Checkers in a bubble pack for around $5 each. The wire I got from Menard's, a local home improvement chain.

If you really want to be trick, go to NAPA and order a handfull of part number 725147. This is the little brass colored insert that GM put in most female connectors of this vintage. With a little flat blade screwdriver in the front of the connector you can depress the little tang and pull the wire out of the back of the black connector. Clamp a 725147 on to your 12 gauge wire, and slide it back in the headlight connector. This connector is called a Packard Type 56 and is used in so many places on this truck that I stock them so I'm not always running to NAPA for more. The male connector is part number 725145. The female looks like this:

[biggestjohn]

Nice article about headlights:

Lots of useful information on this site!!

http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...adlights.shtml

[mikey2409]

Originally Posted by biggestjohn

Nice article about headlights:

Lots of useful information on this site!!

http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...adlights.shtml

This some great info
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[mikey2409]

Originally Posted by mrein3

Exactly. The voltage drop is caused by the resistance in all the connections, small wire, and busted strands of the stranded, stock wiring. What the "relay upgrade" does is remove all that current draw. Essentially all you're doing is unplugging your stock headlight wire from the first light in the circuit and using it to turn on a relay. The relay has a set of contact points that make a connection when it is energized by the 12 volts from your headlight switch through the dimmer and all the other stock wire. When you energize a relay you actually hear the contact points click as they come together. This contact then draws current through a different circuit to what you are wanting to turn on. In this case your headlight. Use 10 or 12 gauge wire from the battery through a circuit breaker to the relay to the headlight. I would also use this opportunity to make a short, 10 or 12 gauge black wire and replace the headlights ground with it. That way your path from the battery to the light back to the battery is made with all 10 or 12 gauge wire. Whatever voltage your battery is throwing out will be what goes across the light to make it light up.

A simple test with your stock wiring is to turn on the lights then measure voltage with a volt meter at the back of the headlights. Its been years since I did it but it was on the order of 10.4 volts. Which is why your stock headlights have a yellow glow.

I bought my relays at Checkers in a bubble pack for around $5 each. The wire I got from Menard's, a local home improvement chain.

If you really want to be trick, go to NAPA and order a handfull of part number 725147. This is the little brass colored insert that GM put in most female connectors of this vintage. With a little flat blade screwdriver in the front of the connector you can depress the little tang and pull the wire out of the back of the black connector. Clamp a 725147 on to your 12 gauge wire, and slide it back in the headlight connector. This connector is called a Packard Type 56 and is used in so many places on this truck that I stock them so I'm not always running to NAPA for more. The male connector is part number 725145. The female looks like this:

explanation and parts info is Awesome and very helpful better put Napa on my things to do list for these parts
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[mikey2409]

Ok so I found a place that sells a updated hd wire harness for my headlights and I'm wondering how would I bypass the horn wire relay since the whole horn set up was canned by the previous owner
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[mikey2409]

Posted via Mobile Devicefinally got my headlight from the filling station now that ive tried to install them I realized my buckets dont fit for these lights has anyone ever installed these and how much fab work needs to be done for the bucket and rings to work or should I return them
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[mikey2409]

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[Stocker]

Can you post pics - or a link - or describe which lamps you bought?

[mikey2409]

They are auto loc 7in snake eyes
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[Stocker]

I have not heard of them, and unknown brands can be a crapshoot at best when it comes to performance & quality. I Googled it and found one review on Amazon, said it was Chinese and appeared to be poor quality. I guess you could trim the bucket like 67cheby did on page 1 (post #16). Your choice, but I would return those and do as I said in post #4 -- stick with a brand-name European E-code.

Here's one source for Hellas http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=739.

[skorpioskorpio]

...and here's a source for Cibie:

http://www.talbotco.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm

[DarkMonohue]

Originally Posted by Stocker

-- stick with a brand-name European E-code.

I'll second that. Cibie is my brand of choice, and from what I understand, much better than Hella or other H4 headlamps. One of their big advantages is tighter vertical separation between low beam and high beam. In other words, when the low beam is aimed properly, so is high beam. Hella H4 lamps have a lot more vertical separation, which puts the high beams in the treetops when low beam is aimed correctly, or puts the low beam too low when high beams are where you want them.

Cibie lamps also offer a much wider, much more even spread of light on low beam than Hella headlamps do. This is increasingly important if you are doing anything more at night than driving very slowly in a very straight line...

You do pay more for Cibies, but you absolutely get what you pay for. They WORK.

Anyway, pardon the intrusion. I am new here, but not completely wet behind the ears. Stocker is my dad...he never did teach me to dry behind my ears.

[Stocker]

skorpioskorpio: I didn't know they were still in business.... another source for Cibies (and a bit cheaper) is
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/p.../products.html.


DarkMonohue: Welcome to the site! I agree with your choice of Cibie over Hella, and for the same reasons.... but I often mention Hellas instead, simply because they are easier to find, and less costly. For those who don't mind paying a little more, I believe Cibie to be the better choice. I sometimes wish Marchals were still available. Those were excellent lamps and I'd like to see how they measure up to Cibies.


mikey2409: Did you do the relay mod yet? That's pretty much a necessity for any headlamp upgrade, no matter which lamps you decide on.

[DarkMonohue]

Originally Posted by Stocker

DarkMonohue: Welcome to the site!

Thankyou, thankyouverymuch. Long time listener, first time caller, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Stocker

I agree with your choice of Cibie over Hella, and for the same reasons...

Well worth it, IMO. They do cost more, but I've never resented the money spent. Dan Stern used to (and may still) offer polycarbonate headlamp protectors that will help protect the investment. And they are still far less costly than deer, pedestrians, parked cars, what have you...

The relay install is a definite upgrade, well worth the minimal time and outlay involved regardless of which headlamps you choose.

[skorpioskorpio]

[QUOTE=Stocker;5796178] I sometimes wish Marchals were still available. Those were excellent lamps and I'd like to see how they measure up to Cibies.
QUOTE]

The last series of Machals were far and away the best standard E2 lamps made, razor sharp cutoffs, prestine focus, street signs exploded with light way down the road, even large side of the road freeway signs that were fairly far off the shoulder. There is a reason why back then it was the lights on virtually all Dakar and Le Mans cars.

Both Marchal and Cibie ended up utimately being owned by the same company (Valeo) and the Cibie line was retained and the Marchal line eventually dropped although the auxillery lights were retained for a while as OEM products and some were folded into the Cibie line. I think the Marchals were more expensive to manufacture, cut quarts crystal lenses, and the reflectors were more prone to dulling than the Cibies.

Each of these is a marked improvement over the prior:

Stock Tungsten sealed beam (DOT)
Halogen sealed beam (DOT)
Cibie H4 Bobi (DOT sealed reflector, replaceable bulb)
Hella H4 crowned lens (E2 and DOT motorcycle)
Hella H4 flat lens (E2)
Cibie H4 crowned lens (E2 and DOT motorcycle)
Cibie H4 flat lens (E2)
Marchal cowned lens (E2)
Marchal Amulux split reflector (E2) [rare and big bucks!]

Each step is a marked improvement over the former. Comparing the last to the first makes the first look like a couple old flashlights taped to the front of the vehicle. BUT... like I said earlier in this thread, initially the E2s might make you a bit queezy at first, any bounce in your suspension you will see in your lighting horizon and more so the better the lights are. The last ones on the list have a razor sharp horizon with about a 30 degree ramp up from center to the right side road edge.

I'll say one thing, you put great well focused headlights on your vehicle and one of the first things you notice is the sheer volume of wildlife that crosses the road ahead of you that you've never known has been there and left before you've ever had enough light to see them. You will also notice that there is way more signs on the side of the road than you remember, because usually at night they are there and gone before they register, and during the day there is too much else distracting you.

[Stocker]

I remember the Marchal Ampilux.... a long time ago I got a set of Marchals (single reflector) and a friend got Ampilux double reflectors. We wired his low beams to come on with the highs. Amazing lamps.

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by RexDodge

Pics or it didn't happen

Here is the link for my lights! A little late though!http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=630581