Biting off more than I can chew?

[Clemsonhelo]

Ladies and Gents I need some serious help. After much debate I've decided to go about rebuilding my 350 in my 70 C10. Planning on converting it to the 383. I'm still early in the planning (the beginning) and I'm trying to make sure I do this right. I've spent alot of time reading threads and trying to learn as much as possible.

Main dilemma is whether I should try and tackle this on my own. I don't have a lot of experience in the wrench turning department, but I have no problem doing research and learning. Obviously some things have to be done at a shop. That being said-would I be better served to wait and gather all my parts and dive in at home in the garage, trusting that all will be well? Or do I find myself and engine builder, save up the extra scratch and pay someone else to do it? I know I'm jumping in the deep end either way, just looking for some honest opinions on which route to take. I'm all for learning along the way and doing this myself, I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Thanks in advance yall

[tcrist]

IMHO, for your first engine, if you want to try and do it yourself, find someone that will come over and guide you that has done it before (many times).

It is really not that hard but you can mess it up in a heart beat if you do not know what you are doing.

Anyway, you can buy a 383 stroker kit and then have a machine shop do all of the machining that is required to the block and heads. Let them match up the block with the parts in the kit.

You might want to think about having them balance it while they have it there.

JMO, of course

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by tcrist

IMHO, for your first engine, if you want to try and do it yourself, find someone that will come over and guide you that has done it before (many times).

It is really not that hard but you can mess it up in a heart beat if you do not know what you are doing.

Anyway, you can buy a 383 stroker kit and then have a machine shop do all of the machining that is required to the block and heads. Let them match up the block with the parts in the kit.

You might want to think about having them balance it while they have it there.

JMO, of course

What he said.

[Resto-Rand]

Yes, get help. My first rebuild was a Lotus. I had a guy that knew his stuff. I drove that thing hard!

[Clemsonhelo]

Originally Posted by tcrist

IMHO, for your first engine, if you want to try and do it yourself, find someone that will come over and guide you that has done it before (many times).

It is really not that hard but you can mess it up in a heart beat if you do not know what you are doing.

Anyway, you can buy a 383 stroker kit and then have a machine shop do all of the machining that is required to the block and heads. Let them match up the block with the parts in the kit.

You might want to think about having them balance it while they have it there.

JMO, of course

Good advice. I wholeheartedly would love to have someone with experience look over my shoulder and guide me through the process, but I'm military and far from home, with another move right around the corner. So access to that type of person is about nil. (Unless a member in the DC area wants to come drink free beer and eat free pizza). If I gathered my own parts together, what would be a reasonable expectation of cost at a machine shop to get the lower end built? Or for that matter the whole damn thing. I know that route would be easier; but I wouldn't learn anything along the way, and that's not my style. Bearing that in mind, it would be nice to know a fair shake at a price if I did need to get bailed out by the pros. And seriously-members in DC-beer, pizza and questionably enjoyable company can be had for the low low price of mentoring a young fella through an engine build.

[MARKDTN]

An engine build is a really fun thing to do. You will gain experience that you can pass down to others. I would go at this just slightly differently though. I would buy a core engine and build it. That does a few things for you. 1) truck not down until you are ready to swap so truck is available for use hauling parts or if you have to move 2) I would go to a 1-pc seal block. They last longer and don't leak as much oil.

Once you have a built and partially dressed out engine, get some help and swap it out in a weekend. I have not priced a having-it-done-engine in a long time, but I suspect it would be $2500+. I would buy a crate motor before I had it built by a shop.

Good luck. By the way, your info says Enterprise, AL but you say DC area.

[Mr Handy]

Coming from it from the same side you are, I have to say go for it yourself, but then again I have some older friends that have been building engines for a long time...
I ended up going with a new long block 350 because I am running an old mismatch of a 283 right now. At some point I really want to build one up from scratch and torque ever nut and bolt....
I am a woodworker and have taught myself everything from how to sharpen and use hand tools and how to make my own tools, to how to make everything from custom furniture to restaurant booths, to guitars and Ukuleles.... I am here to tell you there is nothing you can't learn on YouTube.

I say pick up some good old books on the subject (amazon used or the swap meet) and start gathering parts. I say get a couple of good books because they don't rely on Wi-Fi and you can set them on the bench next to you and not worry if they get some carb cleaner or oil splashes on them.

Maybe we need a thread on everyone's favorite Books.

Go for it, I think you will be happier if you do it yourself.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by Clemsonhelo

Ladies and Gents I need some serious help. After much debate I've decided to go about rebuilding my 350 in my 70 C10. Planning on converting it to the 383. I'm still early in the planning (the beginning) and I'm trying to make sure I do this right. I've spent alot of time reading threads and trying to learn as much as possible.

Main dilemma is whether I should try and tackle this on my own. I don't have a lot of experience in the wrench turning department, but I have no problem doing research and learning. Obviously some things have to be done at a shop. That being said-would I be better served to wait and gather all my parts and dive in at home in the garage, trusting that all will be well? Or do I find myself and engine builder, save up the extra scratch and pay someone else to do it? I know I'm jumping in the deep end either way, just looking for some honest opinions on which route to take. I'm all for learning along the way and doing this myself, I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Thanks in advance yall

The way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. Get the overhaul manual specific to your engine. The Overhaul Manual for your truck is available from motorbooks.com and other sources and it covers more than just the engine. Read THAT as a study guide. There are people on this board I truly respect and there are others that should never go near a truck with a tool of any sort and if you don't know who they are you just end up chasing your tail. Just think, I might be one of those. If money is not that much of an issue buy a ZZ4 crate motor. If it is an issue for you, rebuild your motor near stock. Changing heads and camshaft is OK but stroking a 350 is not something a newbie should attempt. It will cost you more than a crate motor in the long run and , after spending that cash you might have a motor that simply will not run or destroys itself when you start it the first time.

Good Luck!

[ElKotze]

I agree that rebuilding an engine is lots of fun, I always enjoyed it. But unless it's a vehicle that I absolutely want to keep stock, I don't do it anymore. I always ended up paying the same or more than just buying a crate motor with warranty and everything. There are just plain long blocks to turn key EFI engines out there, and when you get them from a established company, they are done RIGHT. But I also understand that it might be on someone's bucket list to build a good ol' V8 yourself. If that's the case , get help from an experienced mechanic or GOOD literature.

[Crabass]

Since you asked, I'll chime in with a few considerations that come to mind:

---Having to drag around time and again a disassembled engine and the tools needed to build it seems like a bad recipe-----can you wait until you will be settled for a while in a place that will accommodate such a project?

---You will definitely need some skilled hands-on help, just count on that. Try hooking up with someone from the forum in your area, or hang out at car shows, cruise-ins, speed shops, the local drag strip. When I was in the service the gearheads pretty much hung out together and weren't hard to spot.

---Before you buy anything else get at least a couple of basic "rebuild your small block Chevy" books and spend the time to read them cover to cover. Only then will you appreciate how much detail goes in to it. That should help you decide whether or not you really want to do this.

---If you're still with it get yourself Summit and Jegs catalogs and start window shopping to get a rough idea of what components cost.

These suggestions are just a start. If you like to learn and have lots of patience it can be a very rewarding experience. If your priority is getting to the finished product quickly then go with the crate motor as some have suggested. Which ever way you go by all means keep posting here on the forum for support.

I agree with what MARKDTN suggests, building a separate engine and swapping when ready, for a bunch of reasons. Ask me and I'll tell you those, too.

[mechanicalman]

Well I doubt you have much equipment, like engine hoist, engine stand, hand tools, floor jack, jack stands, air compressor, torque wrench, dial indicator, ring compressor, etc.

And like others have stated, not a good idea to deviate from a stock configuration engine on your first endeavor.

May I ask what condition your 350 is in, how many miles on it, how it runs etc.?

You can get a nice garage really greasy dirty rebuilding an old pickup, stains on the floor, etc.

Can you afford one of these?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...fa4aAhB48P8HAQ

[Custom/Ten]

I am going tell you this like my automotive teacher told me. Btw he is in the mechanics hall of fame and was the first person to ever pass all of the ASE certification tests, owns his own hotrod shop and builds ass cars, I could go on but I won't. There is no reason to rebuild engines anymore, even if you do a good job you might get a good running engine for about 50,000 miles. If you want to get your money's worth buy a new crate or a jasper rebuilt. If you think you can rebuild an engine as good as jasper your wrong, these guys have experience matched with millions of dollars worth of equipment. That said, if you you just want to rebuild it for fun then go ahead, but don't expect to save money doing it, it's just a fun and satisfying experience for those who are willing and can afford to do it. If you want your money's worth buy a crate. If you just want to have some fun and can afford it, rebuild it but don't do it if you can't afford to built it and find out you ruined it. Sorry if that came across as negative I just don't want to see u walking to work lol.

[Clemsonhelo]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Well I doubt you have much equipment, like engine hoist, engine stand, hand tools, floor jack, jack stands, air compressor, torque wrench, dial indicator, ring compressor, etc.

And like others have stated, not a good idea to deviate from a stock configuration engine on your first endeavor.

May I ask what condition your 350 is in, how many miles on it, how it runs etc.?

You can get a nice garage really greasy dirty rebuilding an old pickup, stains on the floor, etc.

Can you afford one of these?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...fa4aAhB48P8HAQ

Can't afford at the moment, one the of positives to rebuilding is I can start the slow accumulation of parts and build later. My 350 runs pretty rough, leaks alot of oil, and I'm not sure how many miles are on it as the odometer is stuck at 80k, which for a 1970 that looks rode hard and out up wet I highly doubt that to be the case. It seems the fella that owned her before me knew just enough to get it running and hide the shoddy work he did long enough to get it sold. Long and short of it is I paid more than I should have in my excitement. Lesson learned-but you can't get that money back, so I just want to take my time, evaluate my options and make the right choice going forward.

Been alot of good advice- and I agree the crate motor would be the safest course of action. Although I would really like to be able to say I built at least some of it myself. However it would be heartbreaking to build it and then watch it tear itself apart.

Also-I don't have all the required tools, but when I started woodworking I didn't have those either, now I have quite the collection. Much love to my fellow self taught woodworker above. Thanks for all the advice so far everyone, I appreciate you taking the time to help. I'll continue to post as I make more decisions.

[PanelDeland]

I'll say that starting one for the first time can either be an exhilarating experience or a disaster and part of the thrill is that you never know which, even experienced builders.
I will say that some of the parts catalogs list fully machined blocks for less than you can have one done, even with the mods to go 383. With proper machine work, I see no reason not to do the 383,since the procedure is the same. I agree with building and doing a weekend swap though. You're looking at about $2000 in parts, minimum so that needs to be considered since a crate can be a bit cheaper and have a warranty. Also, I know that years ago the Military bases usually had hobby shops for the members to use in their spare time, I don't know if they still do, but if so, you'll probably find the gearheads there. Motorbooks has several engine books directly written for the SBC and I would suggest Big Inch small blocks and the video book on rebuilding the small block chevy (comes with a cd video).
You should probably read them just to be able to better understand your choices.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Clemsonhelo

Can't afford at the moment, one the of positives to rebuilding is I can start the slow accumulation of parts and build later. My 350 runs pretty rough, leaks alot of oil, and I'm not sure how many miles are on it as the odometer is stuck at 80k, which for a 1970 that looks rode hard and out up wet I highly doubt that to be the case.

Have any diagnostics been performed on the engine? Any tailpipe smoke, if so what color? It would seem by what you have said that you will be driving it for at least a while before the engine gets repaired/changed. Is this your daily driver, do you have back-up trans?

Getting a clearanced, machined block is a very good idea, and from what I've seen always cheaper than having your own done as stated. Is the old block matching numbers? Do you care if it is or not?

What performance level are you looking for, horsepower/torque wise? Still some issues on building a 383 aside from a "normal" rebuild. You must have matching parts for an external balance crankshaft such as flexplate, harmonic balancer (depending on what crankshaft you choose). If you run long rods, you can get an internal balance crank, if you run short rods you cannot, only custom balancing will get you that with Mallory metal, and that's expensive. If you run stock rods, you have issues with rod/camshaft clearance but that being said you can buy aftermarket rods with built-in clearance quite reasonable around $300.

"Claimer" style flat top pistons for longer rods (5.7-6") are reasonable, you can get deep dish for the 5.7" rods from KB for around $400. I don't think you can get deep dish for the 6" rod without going broke if at all.

With flat top pistons you would need large chamber heads for street fuel, and those are hard to get as most cheap heads are 64cc. Stock open chamber heads will get you your compression low enough, but do not do the 383 justice without a lot of machine and porting work. Your 70 heads, if original, will not stand up to un-leaded fuel very well unless you replaced your valve seats.

I know AFR makes a good larger chamber head that will suit a 383.

If you want all the tools and equipment as your own, and don't mind moving them every time you move, well that's up to you. Let me know I'll be glad to help you with the logistics of the build. As stated before, it would be advisable to wait until you are in a place you think you can finish the project in.

A small storage room might be an idea before the start of the actual build to accumulate equipment and tools so if you have to move, you can leave the stuff there and maintain it from afar then come and get it when you settle down.

I don't recommend buying any parts at all that are subject to warranty or shipping damage before the very start of the build. I'd bought parts that way only to find they were defective and it had been too long ago to make a claim. Get a big piggy bank and start stuffing money in it instead.

In the end, the GM HT383 crate engine might be close to the same price as all the parts, machine work, equipment, etc. and installing it enough of a challenge on it's own and you can say you "put the engine in it". Ask Blue1972C20 how much of a hassle it can be even though he hired a shop to install it.

The Devil is in the Details.

[HSRACER]

I have built many myself and the HT383 GM crate motor I got to put in my 53 has been one of the best overall engines I have ever had. 430 ft pounds of torque at low RPMs get the truck moving fast and the overall driving experience is great. It hands down beat the ones I built myself.

These days you can get great engines prebuilt in any configuration you want typically cheaper than you can do them on your own.

Given your situation I would go with a crate engine.

I have included the last one I built myself a few years ago for eye candy.

[Mock1]

Just my 2¢, save your money and buy a crate from a reputable company.
I've spent literally thousands of dollars on engines that ran awsome for a short period of time. I chalk it up with a paid education, as in, I spent all that time and money to learn im not that great an engine builder. There is stuff goin on in that block that you and I just cant comprehend, and one mis measurement and the whole thing is shot.

[CastIron]

An engine can be rebuilt and last 100k+ miles, but a lot of people don't understand how much you really need to know to build an engine properly. Most people can put an engine together and get it to run, but to make it last is another story.
A crate engine is the usually the easier, safer way to do it. You'll save yourself a lot time, and probably money as well.

For what it's worth, I'm a factory trained, ASE certified, former GM technician. I've rebuilt many engines for customers, but for my own vehicles I've installed crate motors instead of rebuilding the original engines.

[Coley]

There is a lot of good and interesting feedback here for you....and I agree with a lot of it.
Here is the question of the day for you:
"What are you trying to achieve"?
This has a very big bearing on what you should do.
If you need a better motor soon.....don't build one.
If you have time, money and space and can afford a possible re-do or can live with a few mistakes in the result and are in it for the experience then definitely go for it.
Its on my bucket list too and purely for the interest and fun to do reasons.
Coley

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Coley

There is a lot of good and interesting feedback here for you....and I agree with a lot of it.
Here is the question of the day for you:
"What are you trying to achieve"?
This has a very big bearing on what you should do.
If you need a better motor soon.....don't build one.
If you have time, money and space and can afford a possible re-do or can live with a few mistakes in the result and are in it for the experience then definitely go for it.
Its on my bucket list too and purely for the interest and fun to do reasons.
Coley

Well said.

[slow-1]

If you have to buy the tools as well as the parts and pay for machine work, you building a motor may end up costing double what a crate motor costs.

If I were in your shoes, I would save up money instead of slowly buying parts and tools and buy a crate engine.

Keep your old engine to learn on later when the opportunity presents itself (say on your next move you end up living next to a retired mechanic).