V3500 Cab and Chassis Frame

[crashz]

I may have asked the question before, but I can't remember.

The history of my dump truck is that it spent most of its life as a muni truck, plowing and sanding. Not a lot of miles on it because it was wrecked once and patched back together. A couple times.

I bought it from a famer who changed the cab and painted it. She looked good and ran decent.

Once home a little fuel leak led to a new tank, to chasing air leaks and such. One trip to pickup a mower uncovered a bad death wobble. Got her home and found the a poorly applied patch failing in the front right frame rail was the cause. Also found a hole in the right rear left portion. I had a qualified welder fix these.

The truck has sat since. Other repairs and re-assembly have taken a long time (it's also not at home, so accessibility is an issue). Over the years and the fact that I cannot seem to find a dry spot to store it, the frame has just gotten worse. When I first got it, I washed it, wire brushed like mad and used a 3M rust converter. That stuff is peeling off in sheets. The sub-frame of the dump body was crudely constructed of square tube welded directly to the frame. The tubes are now fully rotted through and collapsing.

I'm debating on two options:
1) Tear the rear of the truck apart completely right down to bare rails, sand blast all components, and reassemble using bolts instead of rivets and plating/fixing any weak spots.
2) Find a new frame from a K30, C30 or CUCV and make it work. I realize the CUCV and the pickup trucks are ~3 inches shorter, but could make it work.

Either way, I need to fab up a new sub frame.

I just don't want to get to the point where I put my precious few hours into the frame, only to find that I cannot save it. My biggest concern is the spring hanger area, as the rust has built up in the seams and appears to have pitted and degraded the thickness of the frame. There is at least 1/8" if rust mushrooms spilling from the seams.

I'll get photos as soon as I can. Any thought from the group?

[greg64]

I have a 1/2 ton 2wd that likely had a similar problem. There was rust through in the chassis near the front spring hangers. Not exactly confidence building.

In the end, I ended up replacing the entire chassis from under the rear cab mounts back. A lot of work, but it's been together like that for 15 years.

[tucsonjwt]

You will be money and time ahead by finding a whole rust free 3500 truck in the southwest and having it shipped to you. You can transfer the dump body and hydraulics if you want, or maybe convert to electric over hydraulic. Most likely, the truck you buy will be in better shape and more worthy of restoration than the one you have - transfer what you can off your truck, scrap the rest for more $$$. 3500s are cheap out here - no demand due to gas hog nature of the vehicle, plus most have utility boxes.

[crashz]

Thanks guys. That's what I'm thinking too.

I'd like a southern truck, but can't afford the time, and like you say, the southern truck will be in better shape. It would be pointless to fix the one I have.

The CUCV route would get me a few extra parts that I need for both trucks and I've found some non runners locally. Bummer is that the chassis is 3 inches shorter.

I'll look at it tomorrow and get some photos.

[GM72K10]

R30 or C30 C&C should be the same frame. Just have to transfer components from 4x4 frame.

[KrazyRay]

What's the wheel base?

[Wrecked1982]

i've learned over time that in the long run it will always be better to pay more for something straight and solid to start with than paying less for something you think will be an easy, cheap fix. that being said i would start with an other rust free frame. pick up frames are 131,5 ''wheel base and cad and chassis are 135,5'' or you can have the longer wheel base one but i dont remember the lenght.

[crashz]

Originally Posted by KrazyRay

What's the wheel base?

Its the 134" wheelbase model. The pick-ups are 131.5" right? I measured 4.5" of clearance from the dump body to the cab, and I'll have to measure it at the apex of the arc while dumping, but I think a shorter wheelbase will still work.

I went out this weekend and looked the truck over, the passenger side actually looks OK. It could use a good sand blasting and I think it would be fine.

I didn't get the pictures (mostly because of embarrassment), but also had a starting issue. I wanted to get it out, wash the truck and frame, and a give it a really good look. Had to pull the starter with the truck outside, sinking in mud. Ran out of time on Saturday as I had to do some other things while I was there.

[crashz]

Originally Posted by Wrecked1982

i've learned over time that in the long run it will always be better to pay more for something straight and solid to start with than paying less for something you think will be an easy, cheap fix. that being said i would start with an other rust free frame. pick up frames are 131,5 ''wheel base and cad and chassis are 135,5'' or you can have the longer wheel base one but i dont remember the lenght.

You are absolutely right. I wish I started with a good truck to begin with. I have problems, I always think I can save them. The truth is, trucks that plow and spread salt for years, cannot be saved. But I am dumb and don't learn my lesson until it costs me my time, $$ and blood.

So far, the 87 has cost me a lot of all three. Its almost a shame to stop now.

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by crashz

You are absolutely right. I wish I started with a good truck to begin with. I have problems, I always think I can save them. The truth is, trucks that plow and spread salt for years, cannot be saved. But I am dumb and don't learn my lesson until it costs me my time, $$ and blood.

So far, the 87 has cost me a lot of all three. Its almost a shame to stop now.

No it's not. It's smart. It's called cutting your losses.
Get another in better shape that wasn't a plow & salt truck in the salt states... The truck you have now can be a donor for interior and other parts that don't fare well in the sunlight of the Southwest. Then part the rest of it out and scrap it.

[crashz]

You're right hatzie. It is the smart move. The cab on this truck is in good shape (was replaced) as well as all of the sheet metal except for the hood. Hence the reasoning to keep it and fix it. The power train is good, sheet metal good and dump body is good. Frame and sub frame are bad. Questionable at best.

I need a cab to finish my 83. Frame is perfect on that. Got the Cummins for that truck already.

Might be raising the white flag on this...

[hatzie]

I believe the C&C cabs are different from the regular 10-30 CK RV cabs because of how the frames are shaped. It's a good cab tho so I'd put it up for sale.

[Wrecked1982]

hatzie, i didnt know cab and chassis cabs were different than regular pick ups. can you educate me on that please?

[crashz]

I was 95% sure that they were the same. The cab that's on the truck is a replacement from Georgia. No idea what it came from though.

From the underside, looks identical.

[hatzie]

That's why I said "I believe". This means I am not sure about the C&C square cab compatibility.
The rear axles are narrower on the C&C trucks. I'd measure the frame width and the cab mount bolt locations on the cab relative to the rear corners vs the truck you want to install the cab onto.

I do know the Medium duty 40-60 series square body cabs are quite different underneath and the C&C frame is slightly different from the regular cab trucks.
The 3500HD 88-01 T400 cabs are definitely different from the regular 1500-3500 series.

[GM72K10]

C & C Cabs and regular pickup Cabs are ALL the same in 10-20-30 series. Humps for trans maybe different but that's it.

[KrazyRay]

I have a line on a very nice 4x4 cab and chassis, but its 157.5" wheel base. Too bad yours is the 134"

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by GM72K10

C & C Cabs and regular pickup Cabs are ALL the same in 10-20-30 series. Humps for trans maybe different but that's it.

So the only ones to stay away from are the MD cabs?

[GM72K10]

Originally Posted by hatzie

So the only ones to stay away from are the MD cabs?

Yes sir

[hatzie]

Too bad that ended with the squares. The 88+ C&C T400 HD and non-HD chassis were different enough to cause trouble.

[crashz]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice.

Hatzie, its ironic, but I may be looking at a 3500HD to replace this truck. Good to know about the cab differences. I'm not familiar with the T400 trucks at all.