Restoration Shop References

[randy.powell]

So I'm getting old and physically can't do much to my old truck anymore. Looking for info on a reputable shop to do a frame off on my 71 Cheyenne Super on the east coast. I know this forum is a great place for DIY and it has helped me tremendously the past couple of years but the arthritis and pinched nerves in my neck are shutting me down.

Anyway, love my old truck and would like to leave her to my grandson. Thus my quest to have her restored.

Any references, info on who I could go to would be greatly appreciated. If you have had your truck restored could you share your cost info?

TIA,
Randy

[davepl]

Musclecar Restorations in Wisconsin. I'm in Seattle and I ship all of my paint/body and frame-off stuff there.

The first car I sent there was the family heirloom - a car that's had 5 generations in it, was bought new by my Dad in '69, and that I've had since I was 16 in '84. Because it's a Canadian-only variant of the Pontiac 2+2, it was a lot of fabrication - nothing is reproduced except that which overlaps with the Bonneville, which isn't much.

I also sent my current project, the 70 GMC 402 AC Sierra Grande, there last year for paint and body. That was my own frame-off but wanted their bodywork and paint.

Now the reality check: sending your vehicle away for a frame-off restoration is about 2000 hours of labor. In some cases closer to 1000, but sometimes more as well. Multiply that by typical shop rates of $80, and you're close to $200K before anyone buys any parts, paint, supplies, etc.

MCR isn't your local bodyshop that now specialized in 60s vehicles. I mean my entire body was acid-dipped, then primer-dipped like a new car, and so on. The truck I had media blasted, which is cheaper. The paint process, which was redacted like a CIA document by the time they let me see it, is two pages of bullet-list sealers, primers, sanding stages, repeat ad nauseum.

I found them after seeing a number of cars, like one that Warren Johnson's wife had done as a surprise. There was also the "World's Best 1960 Camaro" in Car Craft, it's an amazing build.

My restoration did take 2+ years (though the paint-only project was just months) due to parts hunting, fabrication, and so on. But it's a world-class restoration shop, and your project doesn't sit in line behind more lucrative collision work until they have time (how I hate that!). High-end restorations is all they do.

I'll try to stick a couple of photos of mine below to give you a rough idea.

Here's what they started with (remember they're always rougher in person) and where they got to.

http://www.musclecarrestorations.com..._itemId=122712

If you do call them, tell them Dave from Seattle with the black Pontiac referred you... they'll know :-)

[SS Tim]

Isn't this the same shop that changed hands/management and threw away parts of your truck?

[davepl]

Originally Posted by SS Tim

Isn't this the same shop that changed hands/management and threw away parts of your truck?

That's some serious embellishment! The shop has never changed hands (John Balow) and didn't "throw away parts of my truck".

Let's be careful when dealing with people's livelihoods and reputations!

The spare tire got left behind so they gave it to the shipper separately and they (the shipper) never dropped it off. A local friend from the forums gave me a replacement wheel, so there was no point shipping it a third time.

[DeadheadNM]

I can recommend a shop in the SW if that's a consideration.

Sorry to hijack but I recall my GTO motors being a Pontiac blue. Were Bonneville motors painted Chevy orange?

[SS Tim]

Originally Posted by davepl

That's some serious embellishment! The shop has never changed hands (John Balow) and didn't "throw away parts of my truck".

Let's be careful when dealing with people's livelihoods and reputations!

The spare tire got left behind so they gave it to the shipper separately and they (the shipper) never dropped it off. A local friend from the forums gave me a replacement wheel, so there was no point shipping it a third time.

I asked a question from memory of a thread/s you had running. Post #19 here isn't all rosey.

..."No one offered to pay for or replace it. As I've spent a quarter of a million dollars with them in the last 6 years it's immaterial in terms of cost but will be a big factor in where my next restoration goes for paint. Each interaction gets a little less personal and a little less attention to detail and a little less organized. Maybe they're too busy... always friendly but it takes a number of tries to get something handled.

I'm on at least my third contact person (they day to day "how's my truck coming" contact), but they turn over so often I wind up dealing with the owner. He's a very nice guy but he can't run every detail of the probably 25 restorations going on.

Back in July I also sent back a mirror bracket that had rust and needed to be replated. I also sent along the two door panel accent strips and my two door handles. Took 3 weeks to find a person who knew where my chrome pieces were. And as per usual, if you complain enough they magically "just arrived" and are ready to ship back, and it was $1600 for those pieces."...

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...0&postcount=19

[leftybass209]

Give that engine a closer look deadhead..... it's the right color for that engine!

There's plenty of shops that can do quality work for under 100k, most likely under 50k. Always keep the total value of the vehicle in mind, and how much your grandson would have to spend on it in his lifetime..... IF he gets to drive it before the epa steps in with more restrictions.

These things are still mechanical, seals still wear out, heat and UV rays still degrade even the best paint and rubber compounds. Keep that in mind when shopping. It can be easy to spend 10x more than the vehicle is worth over-restoring it, only to have it need to be redone before the next generation can enjoy it.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by SS Tim

I asked a question from memory of a thread/s you had running. Post #19 here isn't all rosey.

..."No one offered to pay for or replace it. As I've spent a quarter of a million dollars with them in the last 6 years it's immaterial in terms of cost but will be a big factor in where my next restoration goes for paint. Each interaction gets a little less personal and a little less attention to detail and a little less organized. Maybe they're too busy... always friendly but it takes a number of tries to get something handled.

I'm on at least my third contact person (they day to day "how's my truck coming" contact), but they turn over so often I wind up dealing with the owner. He's a very nice guy but he can't run every detail of the probably 25 restorations going on.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...0&postcount=19

I was apparently pretty venty that day. Yes, I do remember that they had turnover in the contact people, but to their credit the owner was always available directly.

Quality and ethics were 100%. Communication was spotty on the truck, but had been great on the car.

Sorry to chastise you, your memory of my life is better than my own!

[davepl]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

There's plenty of shops that can do quality work for under 100k, most likely under 50k. Always keep the total value of the vehicle in mind, and how much your grandson would have to spend on it in his lifetime.....

No. Just no. Yes cars can be restored for 50K or 100K. Just not to that level.

You don't have to Google very hard to find people dumping $300K into Hemi 'Cudas and other expensive cars. Restoring a musclecar for which almost nothing is reproduced - you might as well be restoring a V16 Packard. And you can't do that to a concours standard for 50K or 100K.

Or you can have it done to a lower standard for $100K. Or even lower for $50K. Or Maaco for $10K probably.

If you want your '66 Biscayne four door 6-banger at the level of quality, it's still $300K. Which is your point on the value of the car, but I wouldn't trade my car for a '69 COPO and a Hemi 'Cuda. I really wouldn't (of course financially that'd be stupid, but I still wouldn't).

Remember that $50K is only 500 hours, which is three months of ONE person. I doubt any one person can do a competent frame-off in 500 hours including rust, paint, mechanical, rebuilding the drivetrain, and so on.

My truck will be -close- to that standard, and it'll be around $60K, but that's with me doing at least a thousand hours and probably way more because I'm not a pro. But I don't have the skillset to do it quite to the level of my Pontiac. I try to imitate what they did though, it's a great example to follow.

Rebuild your engine. $6K
Rebuild your transmission. $3K
Rebuild your rear axle. $3K
Upholstery. $1K
Chrome. $6K
Electrical incl. harnesses. $1K

There's $20K and you haven't touched the body yet!

[DeadheadNM]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

Give that engine a closer look deadhead..... it's the right color for that engine!

Got it! Thanks.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Sorry to hijack but I recall my GTO motors being a Pontiac blue. Were Bonneville motors painted Chevy orange?

No, Bonnevilles were blue too, but they were 400s (early in the run) and 428s (standard equipment later in the year).

Cars built in Canada used 427s (though a 6 banger 250 was standard). They are badged as Pontiac 427. The only indication of Chevrolet origin is that they use the same option code (L36, etc) and there's a Tonawanda sticker on the valve cover.

It's basically an Impala SS 427 with a shortened body to fit that chassis. The front bumper and rear bumper are the same as the US Pontiac, but everything else just looks like it, I think. Nothing else interchanges. Dashboard is Pontiac. Everything in the interior rear of that is Impala/Caprice, but with Pontiac badges. The steering wheel in the photo in the earlier post is clearly just Impala/Caprice, but with a Pontiac button (which is getting harder to find).

Don't have an air-cleaner photo handy, but here's the fender badge and an old air cleaner photo.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

These things are still mechanical, seals still wear out, heat and UV rays still degrade even the best paint and rubber compounds. Keep that in mind when shopping. It can be easy to spend 10x more than the vehicle is worth over-restoring it, only to have it need to be redone before the next generation can enjoy it.

Quite true. Mine's been about 10 years, and I've been fortunate. The only changes from fresh are that some pitting is developing in plated plastic pieces, like one taillight bezel (not as bad as the NOS ones I have as spares though). Also have a leaking pinion seal. Doesn't get driven enough.

I have one of those car bubble bags, I should put in there :-)

[leftybass209]

I'm not referring to your level of restoration Dave. You spent what you wanted and if you're happy that's all that matters. I was simply providing another opinion to the OP. I've seen vehicles of amazing quality with builder quotes ranging 35-45k and upwards of 100k. Not everyone who does good work charges by the hour.

[DeadheadNM]

Originally Posted by davepl

No, Bonnevilles were blue too, but they were 400s (early in the run) and 428s (standard equipment later in the year).

Cars built in Canada used 427s (though a 6 banger 250 was standard). They are badged as Pontiac 427. The only indication of Chevrolet origin is that they use the same option code (L36, etc) and there's a Tonawanda sticker on the valve cover.

Wow! Never knew that. Thanks for sharing. The 2+2 looks great.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

I'm not referring to your level of restoration Dave. You spent what you wanted and if you're happy that's all that matters. I was simply providing another opinion to the OP. I've seen vehicles of amazing quality with builder quotes ranging 35-45k and upwards of 100k. Not everyone who does good work charges by the hour.

It's not like I spent what I wanted - I achieved the level of restoration I wanted and the cost is what the cost is.

Your definition of amazing quality may not be mine. If you can get 'amazing quality' for 35-45K from someone who fixed-bids a frameoff, take it.

Drives me crazy when I go to Barrett Jackson or similar and see "No Expense Spared" restorations on even high-end cars that warrant it, only to see they didn't replate or polish the stainless, emblems reused, plastic zip ties used to retain wiring under the dash, crimp connectors on wiring, aftermarket aluminum intake that still says Edelbrock, an HEI distributor on a pre-70s vehicle, no NOS sill plates, chrome-plated-plastics in the interior not redone, non-stainless wiper blades, no tools in the trunk, wrong tires, brake boosters in black because gold zinc is expensive, Holley carb on most anything, and on and on.

Honestly first thing I do is look under the hood, and if it's not an RG59 battery or reproduction, I've already set the nonsense bit on the car. Even my shadetree homebuilt truck has the proper RG59 and T72 (from memory) batteries. And if it's got an FM radio, it better have a fixed-length antenna, not a telescoping one (our trucks might be an exception to that, or its a detail people miss, because I've never seen it correct that way yet on a truck).

And if you think I'm picky, go talk to an NCRS guy. You probably lose points if the air in your tires isn't NOS.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Wow! Never knew that. Thanks for sharing. The 2+2 looks great.

Thanks! I don't know if Canada was poverty-land at the time, but especially in Saskatchewan, the cars were low optioned.

In the US I think a 400 was standard in all B-Body cars.

In Canada, even the 2+2, with a console, came standard with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed on the tree. I've never seen one that stripped in a 2+2, but there were only 12 427 4-speed cars built. There's only 1 convertible 2+2 427 four speed and I know were it is - with a very old man who's "going to restore it one day". I need to set a search alert for the inevitable estate sale, but that's too morbid.

Once you got into Alberta or Ontario you'd see cars with a few options. But they've all rusted to death long ago. Anyway, I'm waaay off topic.

[harpo231]

Best in my area and the east coast is ONE OFF ROD&CUSTOM in Middletown DE

Give em a call and ask for Gary or Dan

[WarMonger]

Originally Posted by davepl

I was apparently pretty venty that day. Yes, I do remember that they had turnover in the contact people, but to their credit the owner was always available directly.

Quality and ethics were 100%. Communication was spotty on the truck, but had been great on the car.

Sorry to chastise you, your memory of my life is better than my own!

No I never said that... yes I remember saying that????? I found I never doubt SSTim. Sometimes I think he is part computer the way he can remember things. Guys is a Robot I beleive

[randy.powell]

Harpo231 - thanks for the tip!
B/R,
Randy

[davepl]

Originally Posted by WarMonger

No I never said that... yes I remember saying that?????

No, I said something "like" that, and since it wasn't what I said, I didn't remember saying something "like" that.

With my memory jogged, I remembered what I did say, which was kind of like what Tim remembered.

Big difference between a spare tire got lost & some emails not answered and the version Tim stated. But Tim did jog my memory!

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by randy.powell

So I'm getting old and physically can't do much to my old truck anymore. Looking for info on a reputable shop to do a frame off on my 71 Cheyenne Super on the east coast. I know this forum is a great place for DIY and it has helped me tremendously the past couple of years but the arthritis and pinched nerves in my neck are shutting me down.

Anyway, love my old truck and would like to leave her to my grandson. Thus my quest to have her restored.

Any references, info on who I could go to would be greatly appreciated. If you have had your truck restored could you share your cost info?

TIA,
Randy

Do you really have the resources to do that? A frame off restoration will take anywhere from 600 to 1000 hours. At $100.00/hour (which is really cheap) that's between $60,000 and $100,000 in just labor. Can you really afford that or are you going to try to 'cheapen it up' and end up with a $50,000 piece of crap?