Radiator Failure

[MagmaJct]

*sigh*



Driving home from work on the freeway. Traffic, as it often does, came to an abrupt stand-still. Temperature gauge started to climb, which it never does. The needle wasn't yet in the "hot" zone so I figured I could make it to the next exit. Of course, I had just passed an exit! I then noticed a bit of steam coming out of the engine room. Got off the freeway to find a geyser from the seem between the tank and core.

Being between pay checks, we were too broke to pay for a tow. We ended up buying 8 gallons of distilled water and making our way home on surface streets, ~25 miles. We only ended up using 3 gallons. This picture was taken the next day at home. At this point most of the coolant was water.

Because this engine has chronic low vacuum, I've planned to pull the timing cover for some time to investigate the timing gears and chain. This is a good time to do all that work. So the plan moving forward is to save up for a new radiator. The heater core has a small leak, so I may replace or repair that as well.

Replace radiator.
Replace heater core.
Replace thermostat.
Replace timing gasket.
Replace oil pan gasket.
Inspect timing gears and chain.

Regards,
Mike

[jjzepplin]

Sounds like a good plan so far. Does the engine run well just have low vacuum? How do you know? Chronic low vacuum is not a term widely used. Have you checked for vacuum leaks etc. I had a Porsche blow a timing belt once and fixed it on the side of the road. It was one tooth off and one he!! of a slug off line but revved real high once it was going. Couldn't stand it so I fixed it.

[MagmaJct]

Hey jjzepplin,

I use the term "chronic" because I have tried all the basic steps in an attempt to remedy it. I have a whole other thread on this subject. But I'm too lazy to look it up. Manual brakes, no booster. I've plugged all ports including the transmission modulator, and the vacuum never improves. I've replaced both intake gaskets, no improvement. I've sprayed carb cleaner, used propane gas, and even checked with a rubber hose stethoscope. I could find zero vacuum leaks.

The engine, a 350, gets 10 MPG, and passes emissions. It has a Carter AFB which I'd like to replace with a Quadrajet. But the Quadrajet, as anyone who knows, doesn't like low vacuum. In my low vacuum thread I learned the timing gears have a nylon layer to reduce noise. This layer can degrade over 40 years and allow the chain to jump a tooth.

As to how it runs, well... Because I don't know how it ran with good vacuum, I have no point of reference. It runs well, idles well. It does seem to take a moment to "spool up" under moderate acceleration. However, because it only gets 10 MPG, I keep acceleration low anyway.

Because it runs well otherwise, I've been putting off pulling the timing cover. Now it just makes sense to do it. Do a complete cooling system flush and start from there. Cheers!

BTW, at idle, in drive, the engine pulls only 10 in/mg.

Regards,
Mike

[jjzepplin]

My 307 ran like a watch. So smooth I had a hard time taking it out of my truck but my 406 was just melting over in the wrecked truck so I switched. The 307 had the infamous nylon gears when I took it apart. Bits and pieces all up in the oil pump feed tube and all in the pan. It never jumped a tooth but it couldn't have been too far from it. I suspect that if your engine passed emission test then it is also ok as far as jumping teeth. Is your vacuum gauge good? Usually passing emission tests would suggest a very well running engine as well as in good mechanical condition as well.

[cdowns]

You'd find yourself better off if you used free tap water instead off buying distelled water that is leaking out onto the ground

[gipper]

Originally Posted by cdowns

You'd find yourself better off if you used free tap water instead off buying distelled water that is leaking out onto the ground

Little hard to do when out on the expressway wouldn't you think? I would find myself hard pressed to go knock and someones door and ask for water, much less having containers to put the water in.

[95 S_Trucker]

If that radiator has metal tanks on it, have it repaired. It will be cheaper than a new one.

[cdowns]

Originally Posted by gipper

Little hard to do when out on the expressway wouldn't you think? I would find myself hard pressed to go knock and someones door and ask for water, much less having containers to put the water in.

I WOULD HAVE ASKED AT THE COUNTER SELLING THE DISTILLED WATER

BUT I'M OLD AND I KNOW HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE Face to face not like you youngens that run rather than talk

he was mobile and not really stranded if you read his post// plus I've always got containers in an old truck

[MagmaJct]

jjzepplin,

I forgot to mention, compression is good all around. Not only have I tested this engine with different vacuum gauges, even a digital one, I have used these gauges on other vehicles, and they read correctly.

I can't say that I know the timing is off, all I can say is process of elimination has pretty much narrowed it down for me. The gaskets are old and failing. I've replaced the valve cover gaskets. Next is the oil pan. I'll do all that work at once.

To others,

If you must know... I pulled off the freeway into a Target parking lot. I went inside to use their phone to call my wife. But their phones were down, so an employee was kind enough to let me use his personal cell phone. The distilled water at Target was $0.87 per gallon. The drinking water was the same price. Given the option, distilled water just made more sense.

I like the thought of having the radiator repaired. It's hard to believe repair is still the most cost effective option out there. I suppose they can pull both tanks and clean any deposits? I've never had the pleasure of having a radiator repaired before.

In fact, I've had awesome luck with radiators, only ever having to replace one on a Chevy Blazer. It had the plastic tanks, one of which split. At the time, replacement was the only option at the tanks are crimped on with an o-ring as the seal.

The radiator in my 71 C-10 is a 4 core I believe, "Made in Taiwan". It did develop a leak a few years ago on the other side. I re-soldered it myself. But this time it separated about 4 inches. (In a different location!) I'll shop around for radiator repair shops in my area and get an idea for price.

Regards,
Mike

[cdowns]

how much was the water in the bathroom

[GRX]

87 cents. I would have opted for distilled too. And now you have 5 gallons left over for the new refill. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do. Heck. I once hiked across a big crappy cow field on a sweltering summer day with a 5-gal gas can toward a line of trees hoping there was a stream. Which there was, luckily. Hmmm, is that a bull I see off in the distance? Will I have to play matador before getting back to the ol' pontiac?

[swamp rat]

Distilled water has all the minerals ect removed from it and is not a problem when mixed with antifreeze, i grew up in an area where everyone had well water (hard water) and we all used distilled water when ever possible. Use the stuff up with no worries.

Yet again a same member of this forum needs to spout off rather than give helpful advice on something that is basicly irrelevant, this time also playing keyboard comando with his cap lock's on too.. If this gentleman is so good at face to face communication then maybe he'd be better off logging off the computer and go strike up a conversation elsewhere.

[MagmaJct]

If you notice, I never asked a question. The purpose of my original post was to tell my story. I don't know. I suppose my point was to show that blank happens to all of us. I've sure we've all been here. If not, your time will come.

I did have an anti-freeze jug full of water, but it wasn't enough. The sink in the Target bathroom was too small for a 1 gallon jug to fit under the faucet. 87 cents is not bad for water in the desert! Honestly, why penny pinch? Do you realize how much more effort/time it would take to find a garden hose somewhere? A tow would have cost ~$150. Which we don't have until payday. I would have preferred that plan.

After careful analysis, my wife and I agreed buying the water was the best plan. Does anyone know of a good radiator repair shop in the Phoenix metro area? Preferably in the east valley? If a repair is more cost effective than a new radiator, that would be best.

Regards,
Mike

[jjzepplin]

I think it shows great ingenuity to get out of a bad situation with the least amount of money spent. I once blew a radiator hose on a mountain climb with my quad runner in the bed. I pulled over and my dog went running to a pipe coming out of the mountain. Some sort of drain to prevent mud slides or something. I found a broken tequila bottle and boom I had water. I fixed the hose by cutting it (with my Leatherman that was on the quad for back woods emergency)And stretching it a bit back on the radiator as it blew close to a hose clamp. I kinda overheated a bit so my oil was low. I got some out of the quad with the broken tequila bottle and had about 3.5-3.75 qts but enough to get to the next service station and fix it right. Long day.
I guess I could have used any kind of water but I used what was available at the time. I heard you could pee in the radiator in a pinch but never want to try that...
Good luck with you fix. My fixed radiator has been in my truck for 20 years and one total type accident. Still works good.

[swamp rat]

I had bad luck strike me one day too, my lower radiator hose popped off, i was sure i had tightened it, i could speculate about a neighbor helping me work on the truck but won't go there. I was on the freeway, i had a screwdriver i keep in the truck for carb adjustments, had to walk about 1/4 mile back to a drainage ditch, found an empty bottle and filled it, when i was almost back to the truck an older guy passed me and pulled over, asked if i needed water, he had about 1 1/2 gallons in the trunk of his car, I graciously accepted, i didn't care where the water came from, it got me off the freeway to a gas station..

[Custom/Ten]

Not trying to be argumentative here but when your radiator has holes, YOU NEED TO USE HOLY WATER

Three drum beats and a cymbal.

Crickets.

[jjzepplin]

Ok now that made me laugh!!

[MagmaJct]

Originally Posted by Custom/Ten

Not trying to be argumentative here but when your radiator has holes, YOU NEED TO USE HOLY WATER

Three drum beats and a cymbal.

Crickets.

It's ironic you make that joke about it. I was recalling to my wife when MacGyver used egg whites to plug a hole in a radiator to escape a country run by a ruthless dictator.

I joked that might not be a bad idea. But realistically, I'd find it hard to believe the egg would pass all the way through the cooling system only to solidify at the leak. That is, unless egg whites only solidify on contact with air. I don't know.

It's not worth experimenting with on my ride! However, if I were trying to escape a ruthless dictator, and happened upon a Jeep with bullet holes in the radiator, I might give it a try!

Regards,
Mike

[Custom/Ten]