Did I Get a Dead Hitachi Mini-Starter?

[Feldsine]

I think I'm getting too old to work on this stuff. Sigh... Anyway, I replaced a starter that was clicking the solenoid, but not turning over the motor with a Hitachi mini-starter. Attached the battery cable to the big post (B) that had nothing else on it, and attached both the signal (S) (thick blue or purple) and coil (smaller light blue) (R) cables to the single tab using the single screw. This truck still has the points style distributor.

I clipped a clipped a remote starter, the kind with the clips that attach to the starter and has the switch on it so I can turn the motor over, and nothing. No solenoid engagement, nothing. I verified that battery power is reaching the solenoid. I made sure the truck is in Park tried hitting it with the ignition switch, nothing, remote starter, nothing.

Could it be a wiring problem, or something else? It's been 15 years since the truck as run, but the PO says it was running fine when parked. Maybe a bad new starter?

I'm out of ideas, not that I had many to begin with.

[leddzepp]

I know there is a modification needed when using a mini starter with a points style ignition...don't remember what exactly, but it stopped me from buying one for my 68.

[trac209]

Iirc there no mod needed for points ignition. It's just that a points distributor gets its power from a wire off solenoid I believe. It shouldn't effect starter not turning over.

[Feldsine]

When I pull the trigger on the remote starter the battery voltage drops from 12.5 to 11.6 if that helps...

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Feldsine

I think I'm getting too old to work on this stuff. Sigh... Anyway, I replaced a starter that was clicking the solenoid, but not turning over the motor with a Hitachi mini-starter. Attached the battery cable to the big post (B) that had nothing else on it, and attached both the signal (S) (thick blue or purple) and coil (smaller light blue) (R) cables to the single tab using the single screw. This truck still has the points style distributor.

I clipped a clipped a remote starter, the kind with the clips that attach to the starter and has the switch on it so I can turn the motor over, and nothing. No solenoid engagement, nothing. I verified that battery power is reaching the solenoid. I made sure the truck is in Park tried hitting it with the ignition switch, nothing, remote starter, nothing.

Could it be a wiring problem, or something else? It's been 15 years since the truck as run, but the PO says it was running fine when parked.

Maybe a bad new starter?I'm out of ideas, not that I had many to begin with.

These mini-starters were not designed to work with the points distributors that used the resistance wire to avoid damage to the coil.
You need to establish that the starter solenoid and the starter still works by removing the wires from the small terminal and jumping the large cable to the small terminal to see if the starter motor engages.
Be sure the truck is out of gear with the e-brake is on for safety as it may start in gear. If the starter turns the engine over, then re-attach the purple wire to the small terminal and try the starter. If it works in both cases then the starter is good.

I'm surprised that the starter didn't come with instructions on how to wire it up.

Here is what has happened.

Wiring the purple or blue wire to the small terminal is correct since that is the solenoid engagement wire. The wire that you connected from the coil however is hot anytime the ignition is on. This means that you will get power to the solenoid anytime the key is on, which will apply voltage to the solenoid trying to engage the starter and possibly has burned out the solenoid coil wiring.

Jumping the large cable over to the small terminal isolates everything else from the starter and confirms whether or not it is good.
Then connecting the purple/blue wire confirms whether the starter circuit, including the key switch is functioning properly.

Now we come to the problem of how to get the ignition to the coil for normal running, and for the full 12 volt boost just during starting.

This may depend on how the original wiring was done on the truck. Do you have a wire in the coil positive terminal and the one for the small terminal on the starter? Or do you just have the one for the starter. I think you may have one for the coil and one for the starter.

Here is how it should be wired.
There should be a wire from the key switch ignition terminal to the coil positive. This wire has a resistance in it that drops the voltage down to 8.5 volts to prevent burning out the coil from excess voltage.
Wired into this wire between the resistance and the coil or connected to the coil positive is another wire that originally went to the R terminal on the stock starter.
When the starter was engaged by the key switch, the wire delivered a full 12 volts to the coil for better spark during starting. Since this wire is connected to the coil it has voltage on it anytime the key is on ignition. On the old stock starters the voltage was dead at the R terminal. However if it is wired to the single terminal on the mini-starter it is live and trying to engage the solenoid
anytime the key is on, as I stated above.

I suspect that this may have burned out the solenoid if the tests above don't work.

The solution is simple and you should have gotten instructions. All you have to do is splice a diode in the wire from the starter small terminal to the coil and reconnect the purple/blue wire to the same terminal. The diode doesn't need to be very large, a one watt should be enough. Install it so that the arrow on the diode points toward the coil.

[Feldsine]

Thanks VetteVet, that helps me understand a lot better what is going on. I had actually attempted to just verify that the engine would turn over by giving the remote starter a quick stab before I ever turned the key on. It is only after that didn't work that I gave the key a try with the same result.

However, I will do what you said and take both the wires off the small terminal and I believe I can still use the remote starter switch to make the jump from the B post to the terminal.

In any event, I think I'll just order an MSD HEI and be done with the points. That was my plan anyway, I was just trying to get the engine started as is to get a starting point.

I'm just worried my next problem will be how I wired the coil up if I keep the points system, since the coil wasn't in the truck when I picked it up. There appeared to be 4 wires in the coil area and I have no idea if I got it wired up right since there seems to be more wires than I should have there.

[derotoreut]

VetteVet you are the Man! It's so awesome that you take the time and effort to make a write up like this. I have ready many of your posts and I always appreciate them. Electrical issues seem to be confusing to many people (including me) and it's nice to see such an in depth and comprehensive write up. Thanks again for all you do.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Feldsine

Thanks VetteVet, that helps me understand a lot better what is going on. I had actually attempted to just verify that the engine would turn over by giving the remote starter a quick stab before I ever turned the key on. It is only after that didn't work that I gave the key a try with the same result.

However, I will do what you said and take both the wires off the small terminal and I believe I can still use the remote starter switch to make the jump from the B post to the terminal. Yes you canIn any event, I think I'll just order an MSD HEI and be done with the points. That was my plan anyway, I was just trying to get the engine started as is to get a starting point. Not a bad decision

I'm just worried my next problem will be how I wired the coil up if I keep the points system, since the coil wasn't in the truck when I picked it up. There appeared to be 4 wires in the coil area and I have no idea if I got it wired up right since there seems to be more wires than I should have there.

You should have at least one hot wire with the key on, maybe 2, and there will be a negative coil to distributor wire. If you have a tach it will go on the negative post of the coil with the distributor wire.

..

Originally Posted by derotoreut

VetteVet you are the Man! It's so awesome that you take the time and effort to make a write up like this. I have ready many of your posts and I always appreciate them. Electrical issues seem to be confusing to many people (including me) and it's nice to see such an in depth and comprehensive write up. Thanks again for all you do.

Thanks for the kudos, I always enjoy helping when I can.

[Feldsine]

Well, good news. Took both wires off the terminal, and remote starter turned motor over. Hooked up the signal wire and taped back the coil wire, and the remote starter and the key turned engine over!

Now I'm off to get the HEI distributor!

VetteVet, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your reply to me, you are a godsend! Thanks!

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Feldsine

Well, good news. Took both wires off the terminal, and remote starter turned motor over. Hooked up the signal wire and taped back the coil wire, and the remote starter and the key turned engine over!

Now I'm off to get the HEI distributor!

VetteVet, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your reply to me, you are a godsend! Thanks!

You've made my day.

[Feldsine]

Finally got the engine running after sitting for 15 years or so. Steps taken over the period of a month or so were:

Change the engine oil.
Squirt Marvel Mystery oil into the cylinders.
Prime the oiling system with oil pump tool.
Fresh gas.
Change to a mini starter when the existing starter wouldn't work.
Change to an MSD distributor when the mini starter wouldn't work with the points distributor.

Started right up and ran great. I love making progress.