seeking advice and opinons

[trulyjonny89]

So I recently acquired a 1959 chevy 3100, My plans are for a decent rat rod overhaul. I want to lay frame on bags big engine yada yada yada. I have some ideas in mind from carusing the internet, magazines and truck shows for quite a while. But now that I have the truck finally I want to turn to you guys and get some ideas and advice on what you guys have done. I obviously want to beef up the front end maybe even full frame swap to an s10. Ive heard they are a little more narrow than the 59 but being a light truck it has a light frame but still pretty sturdy. also if anyone has done a bag set up ideas on what you guys think for that whether a 4 link or bag over axle. lots of rambling I fully understand that.
But let me know what yall think.

[_Ogre]

rat rod

why make a piece of junk out of your truck?

full frame swap to an s10

Ive heard they are a little more narrow than the 59

you already know the s10 is not a good match for a task force frame swap

But let me know what yall think

bad idea

get some ideas and advice on what you guys have done

with the proliferation of weld in suspension cross members that is your safest and quickest way to go
there are many dozens of successful truck builds on this forum, read some of the build threads

yada yada yada

wtf?

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by trulyjonny89

So I recently acquired a 1959 chevy 3100, My plans are for a decent rat rod overhaul. I want to lay frame on bags big engine yada yada yada. I have some ideas in mind from cruising the internet, magazines and truck shows for quite a while. But now that I have the truck finally I want to turn to you guys and get some ideas and advice on what you guys have done. I obviously want to beef up the front end maybe even full frame swap to an s10. Ive heard they are a little more narrow than the 59 but being a light truck it has a light frame but still pretty sturdy. also if anyone has done a bag set up ideas on what you guys think for that whether a 4 link or bag over axle. lots of rambling I fully understand that.
But let me know what yall think.

I like the s10 approach myself. I have an s10 clip under a 65, I ordered custom arms that were 4" longer on each side and if there is a downside, the brakes, engine mounting, strength, upgradability, I havent found it.

usually though, when people say "rat rod" they mean a ramshackle pile of parts where lowest cost is the most important consideration.

if thats what you mean too, my advice isnt going to help you, the control arms were $1200, they are very nice arms with high angle balljoints. Mustang II suspensions run about the same, but have short spindles not really suited to longer travel bag setups. and a bag setup with onboard compressors will cost a minimum, MINIMUM, of 2k, even with the cheapest parts, even if you make most of the metal parts and links yourself. so right there you have spent 3200, and you literally dont have anything else yet.

[trulyjonny89]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I like the s10 approach myself. I have an s10 clip under a 65, I ordered custom arms that were 4" longer on each side and if there is a downside, the brakes, engine mounting, strength, upgradability, I havent found it.

usually though, when people say "rat rod" they mean a ramshackle pile of parts where lowest cost is the most important consideration.

if thats what you mean too, my advice isnt going to help you, the control arms were $1200, they are very nice arms with high angle balljoints. Mustang II suspensions run about the same, but have short spindles not really suited to longer travel bag setups. and a bag setup with onboard compressors will cost a minimum, MINIMUM, of 2k, even with the cheapest parts, even if you make most of the metal parts and links yourself. so right there you have spent 3200, and you literally dont have anything else yet.

okay so in that sense of "rat rod" that isnt any bit of what i mean. I fully intend on doing this build correctly in the sense of a bagged 59' chevy would be. I understand it's going to cost money. I wouldn't get into this if i didn't understand that. I just never heard rat rod being considered a mangled mess of cheap crap. this will take me a few years to do and do correctly. just want to get started in the right way with some helpful advice.

[tmoble]

>>> I just never heard rat rod being considered a mangled mess of cheap crap.

That's what it means to me too. probably start a firefight but there it is. I totally lost interest in that deal when I saw that they clear coating rusty panels. Silly, IMO. but, it's just IMO, others may (will) differ.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by tmoble

>>> I just never heard rat rod being considered a mangled mess of cheap crap.

That's what it means to me too. probably start a firefight but there it is. I totally lost interest in that deal when I saw that they clear coating rusty panels. Silly, IMO. but, it's just IMO, others may (will) differ.

Means the same to me. Personally, I wouldn't want anything I aspire to create compared - much less NAMED - after a rat.

[mygirlz55]

Just my opinion, but.... The term "rat rod" is used when referring to an old hot rod that is made up of old rusty parts from various different cars and parts that you find at a swap meet etc.
These trucks from the 50's don't really lend themselves to being placed in the category.
Now on the other hand. ....I'm working on our 1955.5 and since I understand there's absolutely NO way we will be able to afford an all out restoration, my daughters and I have decided to go this route. ..
Still has the look they want, but isn't going to break the bank of dad.

[fisherman420]

The beauty of building your own truck is you can do whatever you want and not give a $hit what others think of it. Every person has their own style so just go for your planned outlook even though that might change a hundred times throughout your build. I'm thinking your wanting to do an "originalish" looking body, meanwhile having a good reliable drivetrain with a respectable amount of gitty up and go with the ability to slam it on the ground. Depending on your budget, primarily spend your cash where it counts like safety, driveability and reliability and worry about the fancy $$ details later. You can make a nice truck if you source the right parts and have some know-how with the basics of welding, fabricating, mechanical and electrical and there will usually be someone locally or here that will be more than willing to help. Good luck!

[OrrieG]

Tough crowd! In my opinion S10 is not suited to 55-59, two narrow track width. later model trucks are wider and tires will stick out beyond the fenders unless you use non-standard offsets, which can cause other issues. Also to slam them you have to heavily modify the suspension, so why not just do that to the stock frame?

Positive reason are
- there are lots of front suspensions for the TF that are set up to be lowered, tried, tested and they work, look in the build threads. some bolt in, most require welding but it sounds like you anticipate that. Look for one that incorporates the radiator supports or does not alter them.
- any frame s10, later model or stock will require the back to be notched. Lots of ways to do it, most seem to go with a four link and bags, again lots of info in the build threads.
- and for me most important, if you use the stock frame you do not have to mess with getting the radiator support, cab, bed, etc. aligned right. I suspect that lots of the failed clip or lowered project trucks that come up for sale happen because they reach that point and the guy realizes it is going to be a lot of work, or beyond his skill set, to fix.

Good luck with the build, spend some time looking at what others have done and decide what to do.

Only comment I have about the "ratrod" style is I have seen some good executions, but the majority just look like they are throwing a bunch of parts together without any thought as to the outcome or the skills to safely fabricate and assemble.

[trulyjonny89]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

Tough crowd! In my opinion S10 is not suited to 55-59, two narrow track width. later model trucks are wider and tires will stick out beyond the fenders unless you use non-standard offsets, which can cause other issues. Also to slam them you have to heavily modify the suspension, so why not just do that to the stock frame?

Positive reason are
- there are lots of front suspensions for the TF that are set up to be lowered, tried, tested and they work, look in the build threads. some bolt in, most require welding but it sounds like you anticipate that. Look for one that incorporates the radiator supports or does not alter them.
- any frame s10, later model or stock will require the back to be notched. Lots of ways to do it, most seem to go with a four link and bags, again lots of info in the build threads.
- and for me most important, if you use the stock frame you do not have to mess with getting the radiator support, cab, bed, etc. aligned right. I suspect that lots of the failed clip or lowered project trucks that come up for sale happen because they reach that point and the guy realizes it is going to be a lot of work, or beyond his skill set, to fix.

Good luck with the build, spend some time looking at what others have done and decide what to do.

Only comment I have about the "ratrod" style is I have seen some good executions, but the majority just look like they are throwing a bunch of parts together without any thought as to the outcome or the skills to safely fabricate and assemble.

Thank you orrieG, you definitely have some strong points there. Makes more sense money wise to just work off the origanl frame that i already have that does work. I'll look into the build threads.
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[mr48chev]

Rat rod in most people's opinon< Look I hung non automotive junk on it impress mouthbreathing non car people with my junky rig.




Stuff like this is what we visualize any time someone shows up and says he wants to build one of "those rat rods"


How about just saying that you want to build a simple low buck truck with few extra dollar frills? There are a number of quite simple low dollar trucks in this group that the owners didn't fall into the I gotta have all the fancy trinkets on or the latest trick of the week stuff on. Well done but no high cost items such as billet wheels, 22 inch tires that cost 400 each or high dollar engines and engine trinkets. Not that we don't have several full on high end national award winning show trucks in the mix with all the tricks and hot lick stuff.

Personally I'd rather see a guy use his good stock frame and hang a front suspension on it bags or no and set up the rear end the way he wants as I feel in the long run it makes for a better truck with a lot less hassles as far as getting sheet metal and bumpers to fit and no issues with title or insurance because of a frame change.

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

insurance because of a frame change.

Good point that I do not remember being raised before. I would bet an insurance adjuster would take one look at the "rat rod" and reject any claim made. If you are going to be driving one better have very deep or very shallow pockets and hope nothing goes wrong that injures someone else. Friend of mine is starting a law suit against an insurance company that is not honoring a claim filed by the person whos trailer broke loose and front ended and totaled her car and left her injured. Insurance co is saying the trailer was not constructed properly (safety chain welds broke) so it is the guys problem, not theirs....

[tarzandude43]

I think the term ratrod not only suggests gawdy bullcrap but poor and or unsafe build quality. To puposely do work that is not your best effort is my biggest problem with it. I dont think op meant it that way though. Hes just wanting that pissed off and patina'd look.

[Highsider]

Don't come crawling to me with that
"pissed off and patina'd look"!

[ptc]

"Rat - Rodding" is just another form of hot rodding like any other that is totally unrelated to anything that is considered 'Restoration' or "Resto-Mod" which has to be respected like any other form of 'car building'. Its becoming TOOOO regular to see the MII front ends, front clips and the bagged notched rear ends, and now there are at least 10 MFRs out there making numerous kits that any handyman with a welder and no talent can put together one of these trucks with some IKEA type picture instruction sheets in their garage....

RAT RODS are truly from peoples own ingenuity, their own designs, their own artistic pleasures and for any of a dozen reasons why NOT to do something that everybody else has or does with a car....

This is truly Functional Mechanical ART at its finest !!!! - in my opinion!









If you want to call this junk.... well than "One mans junk is another mans treasure!" -

[iowaboynca]

Originally Posted by ptc

that any handyman with a welder and no talent

Hey I resemble that remark!

[Coach529]

Some key words that seem to invoke a lot of "Emotion"

"Rat Rod"

"Patina"

[Dan in Pasadena]

Just opinions and I do NOT mean to offend anyone but I find the term "rat rod" makes me think of poor workmanship and not artistic vision - maybe that just me.

As for patina? I think there IS such a thing as patina but long term - frequently decades - of neglect are not patina. A survivor car that has been polished over decades of cherished ownership until the factory primer starts to show through and chrome that has gotten its share of nicks and scrapes through the years though its owner has tried to keep the vehicle looking its best - THATS patina to me.

Heavy, near complete surface rust coming through paint is just a car that's not been cared for and someone wants to put a fancy sounding word on it is what passes for patina. Don't get me wrong, I admire people trying to resurrect one of these neglected cars just don't make out that it looks BETTER nearly rusted out. Again, just my two cents.

[dsraven]

what is the end result you are looking for? old truck with low stance but modern underpinnings? steers like it is on rails and stops on a dime? like said earlier, the air bag set up and their controllers can break the wallet of a normal guy AND cause turmoil in the relationship with the significant other unless she is fully onboard. if it is a modern feel and steering/braking that you want with a low rider look then check out Canadian Hotrods frame set up. they run a complete newly built frame with corvette suspension, all gm parts, fully boxed and with battery cables, fuel and brake lines in the frame and have really strong powder coated frames that are ready to simply drop your body on and add wheels. expensive, maybe, but by the time you count up all the big ticket parts for front end kits and rear end suspension and the nickel and dime parts as well as the fuel to drive all over the place and the power bill for the lights, compressor, welder and all the steel and shop supplies, the price tag looks pretty close to the end result of a weld in mustangII and a four link with bags and controllers etc. plus the front end geometry guess work is taken out of the equation. you would be driving the truck or at least have more time to spend working on the rest of the unit. besides, right now the dollar is looking really good from the USA side....if I was doing it again I would definately look seriously at a complete frame replacement.
just me talking though.

[pvienneau]

What the fisherman from Canada said.

[Coupeguy2001]

There's a lot of stuff called mechanical art. some is unsafe

[dsraven]

are you talking about the block heater cord that may rub through, one day, on the steering box? or is it the open chain with no safety guard? the sharp edges on the inner fender? what? WHAT?
ha ha ha. I see stuff like this all the time. "whaddya mean it doesn't pass a safety? that hole in the floor is covered with a floor mat.......