Starting my engine build

[NorCalC20LWB]

Will be doing this shortly myself, and curious about the comments on not changing the cam at this time. Why not? Does not seem that complicated, and from what I've read the best power increase comes from a good cam/head combo. What would make it so much more difficult to get running again?

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I was wondering about that. I was thinking with new heads I would have to get new rockers and pushrods, but I suppose I could re-use these ones. If the cam turns out to be smaller than I thought, I'll be replacing that as well so new rockers may be in the budget. How big does a cam have to be to need aftermarket rockers?

I read so many threads every day i forgot you were the guy with the aluminum heads sitting on the shelf. My opinion is with new heads yes i would go ahead and do new rockers, pushrods and lifters, you also have my vote on new cam and timing chain/gears while your in there.

One of the reasons to keep track of all the valve train parts is to inspect for unusual wear, if you find something its best to try and figure out if you have a blocked oil passage now rather than after all the new goodies time and labor go into it.

EDIT: Did you say its a pretty fresh bottom end in a different conversation? is your compression pretty stable across the board right now? lets hope so because if you have worn rings and put new heads on the engine your gonna end up with a smoker.

[tcrist]

From the sounds of it you really need someone to walk you through it. Not trying to be harsh, but I think that you really need to read up on the basics and get advise from someone that has done this before. I am talking about someone that can be with you as you are doing this. A mentor "so to speak". One that can advise you "WHILE" you are doing the work.

Or as stated above, you will have it setting in your driveway for a long time. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Even though in the end it is really simple.

You said in the first post that you have a buddy to help. How much experience does he have?

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by NorCalC20LWB

Will be doing this shortly myself, and curious about the comments on not changing the cam at this time. Why not? Does not seem that complicated, and from what I've read the best power increase comes from a good cam/head combo. What would make it so much more difficult to get running again?

To get the cam out while the engine is in the truck, you'll have to remove the radiator and on most trucks, the grille as well. I was able to get a cam through a '67 C10 about 20 years ago during a cam swap... but the grille has two long open spaces.

Originally Posted by tcrist

From the sounds of it you really need someone to walk you through it. Not trying to be harsh, but I think that you really need to read up on the basics and get advise from someone that has done this before. I am talking about someone that can be with you as you are doing this. A mentor "so to speak". One that can advise you "WHILE" you are doing the work.

Or as stated above, you will have it setting in your driveway for a long time. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Even though in the end it is really simple.

You said in the first post that you have a buddy to help. How much experience does he have?

A good service manual breaks it down EZPZ on the step by step.

Gary

[tcrist]

A service manual is always good to have but sometimes it is much easier hands on.

I based my comment on the post that the OP made as a reply to my post above about taking pictures so he knows where to put the plug wires back where they belong.


In addition, it looks as though the starting thought process could have used some help. Does the OP know any basics on this motor before starting to tear it down?

What was the compression?

Was a timing light put on it to see if the timing was floating or staying put. Noting that a timing chain could need replacing.

ECT.

[davepl]

Everyone starts somewhere! Just start slowly, take more notes, more pics, and make sure you've read about what you're going to do from a couple of sources before you do it.

Rebuilding the Small Block Chevy, Chapter 5, Disassembly
How to Rebuild Your Small-Block Chevy: David...
Rebuilding the Small Block Chevy Videobook
Rebuilding the Small-Block Chevy: Step-by-Step...
More advanced than you need, but:
Building Small Block Chevrolet Cylinder Heads
How to Build and Modify Chevrolet Small-Block V-8...
I bet all of these are David Vizard. He wrote a lot of good stuff a long time ago.

These books are all paperback, under twenty bucks, and available for 2-day Prime delivery. No excuses :-) You'll NEED to know the torque sequence, whether you can reuse rocker arms, which head bolts go into cooling jackets, and all kinds of info you need in "bulk" that you couldn't ask one question at a time.

You will need a torque wrench and timing light, and I think you have the latter. If you're anywhere near a major brand parts store, they should rent torque wrenches.

You might need to do the chain, but if it's not a known problem I'd keep your battlefield small and not pull the cam and lifters and chain unless it's really time. We used to take them off and lie them on their side and if they touched they were done, but there's likely a much better way, you'll need to ask.

[tcrist]

To the OP, nothing by me is intentional to be rude or harsh.

Maybe I am old school, Maybe? I know I am because I am older than dirt. Well, I am older than Denny's anyway.

But anyway, as Dave noted, Pick up some manuals / books on this and read, read, read.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by tcrist

But anyway, as Dave noted, Pick up some manuals / books on this and read, read, read.

I know I'm beating the whole "read the book" thing pretty hard but without a mentor to follow along, suffice to say that engines are not self-explanatory enough that they'll tell you HOW to take them apart and reassemble them.

And the problem is knowing where the parts go is only 50% of the battle.

Not to fear, we all started from 0, and there was no internet then. You've got a head start!

[GRX]

Great shop. I still enjoy working outside even though I have a garage. Reading manuals will be a big help. Lots of little details not mentioned here yet. Good that you have a buddy for guidance. And the great people of this forums too.

My advice as one who has seen a lot of projects like yours is to seriously consider a cam & lifter set that will match your new heads. An engine should be seen as a total system. In essence, what you have is an air pump and the cam more than any other single component determines how it breathes. This may be a bit intimidating with your current skill level, yet it is the only way you will see full potential from the new heads. Much of this hinges upon what camshaft the engine has right now. Only way to be sure is to pull it and look for numbers.

[SoCoC10]

When cleaning the blocks deck(surface that the head mates to) DO NOT use a 2" or 3" Scotchbright wheel. I've seen a tech gouge the deck and then we had to pull the short block. Use a razorblade scraper and take your time. You can also use carb cleaner to soften up the remaining head gasket.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by GRX

My advice as one who has seen a lot of projects like yours is to seriously consider a cam & lifter set that will match your new heads. An engine should be seen as a total system. In essence, what you have is an air pump and the cam more than any other single component determines how it breathes. This may be a bit intimidating with your current skill level, yet it is the only way you will see full potential from the new heads. Much of this hinges upon what camshaft the engine has right now. Only way to be sure is to pull it and look for numbers.

This is true - I just assumed you'd do it in a second pass sometime in the future. But if you're up to it, it's the right way to go. But you need to know how to break in a cam and all of that.

I would call whoever made the heads and see what they suggest, then talk to a cam company and see what they suggest, and maybe pick the milder of the two suggestions. The cam company would need to know the lift vs flow numbers to make a good recommendation, but even just knowing what approximate type of head they are they can make a decent guess based on what you want the vehicle to do and how you want it to drive, what gears it has, what weight it is, what converter you have, all of that.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

I read so many threads every day i forgot you were the guy with the aluminum heads sitting on the shelf. My opinion is with new heads yes i would go ahead and do new rockers, pushrods and lifters, you also have my vote on new cam and timing chain/gears while your in there.

One of the reasons to keep track of all the valve train parts is to inspect for unusual wear, if you find something its best to try and figure out if you have a blocked oil passage now rather than after all the new goodies time and labor go into it.

EDIT: Did you say its a pretty fresh bottom end in a different conversation? is your compression pretty stable across the board right now? lets hope so because if you have worn rings and put new heads on the engine your gonna end up with a smoker.

Yep that was me the bottom end was done according to PO right before he sold it to me, and I've put MAYBE 2000 miles on it. Ive never tested the compression so I couldn't tell ya, but it doesn't smoke at all ever, and doesn't burn a drop of oil. When the bottom end was done they put a cam in it, just not sure of what cam exactly, it's lumpy though. I posted a video of the truck idling I'll see if I can find it and post it here.

[Mrturner1]

The heads are Pro Topline SRT 180cc runners, 64cc chambers and 2.02 intake 1.64 (I think) exhaust. Not aluminum as far as I can tell, but they do have comp cams guides plates on them already, and springs as well.

[Mrturner1]

The heads

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by davepl

This is true - I just assumed you'd do it in a second pass sometime in the future. But if you're up to it, it's the right way to go. But you need to know how to break in a cam and all of that.

I would call whoever made the heads and see what they suggest, then talk to a cam company and see what they suggest, and maybe pick the milder of the two suggestions. The cam company would need to know the lift vs flow numbers to make a good recommendation, but even just knowing what approximate type of head they are they can make a decent guess based on what you want the vehicle to do and how you want it to drive, what gears it has, what weight it is, what converter you have, all of that.

Hey Dave, do you know if the head company is still around anymore?

[Mrturner1]

Some of you wont like the name the PO used for the cam, and I agree, but when I bought it the guy said he thought it was an RV cam. Before you jump me for using "RV cam" I'm just repeating what PO said lol GASOLInE

[Mrturner1]

I'll add, the guy who actually built the truck, used it to tow his OTHER 1970 c10 to the track, said truck being a 10 second shortbed with full cage and wheelies and all that. So, the guy knew a thing or two about motors, this is good news to me.

[GRX]

Your last couple posts answered my question about the bottom end & possible wear.

Nothing wrong with an "RV" cam. That is a common upgrade and I have built many for customers with one. Would be great if you could get build info, including part numbers, from the PO.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by tcrist

To the OP, nothing by me is intentional to be rude or harsh.

Maybe I am old school, Maybe? I know I am because I am older than dirt. Well, I am older than Denny's anyway.

But anyway, as Dave noted, Pick up some manuals / books on this and read, read, read.

No offense taken at all I understand that this has the potential to be one massive expensive disaster lol but I'm ok with that. I want to learn and be fluent at tuning/building my truck which is why I decided to dive in instead of letting a shop have all my money. Your input is appreciated man!

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Some of you wont like the name the PO used for the cam, and I agree, but when I bought it the guy said he thought it was an RV cam. Before you jump me for using "RV cam" I'm just repeating what PO said lol GASOLInE

LOL!

Sounds like you're getting your hands dirty. Check back in if you have more questions.

Gary

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

I'm mowin what you're growin about the cam change, but is there at least some way I can identify what's in it without removing? I don't see what it could hurt to deck the heads a little bit, I'm mullin that over as well. Stock pistons put me at 8.1-1 roughly? So 9.0-1 could only help I'm thinking, not worried about fuel costs the truck was bought to go fast.

Since you're tearing it down, it's easy to check what type of cam is in it.
Here's a link on degreeing your cam.
You can find all the specs you need by leaving it in the block.
Just need a few parts. Like a degree wheel and dial indicator and some patience.
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Cams...egreeACam.aspx

[Grumpy old man]

Reading your thread and I did a few quick searches on Pro Topline heads and before you dive in to this head change you may want to do some homework on these heads ? Seems many think there junk and not worth the time and aggravation ? That maybe why the PO handed them to you instead of installing them when he just did the bottom end ? Their made in New Zealand and the company was sold 12 years ago

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/pro-...uck-26435.html

[Average Joe]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Yep that was me the bottom end was done according to PO right before he sold it to me, and I've put MAYBE 2000 miles on it. Ive never tested the compression so I couldn't tell ya, but it doesn't smoke at all ever, and doesn't burn a drop of oil. When the bottom end was done they put a cam in it, just not sure of what cam exactly, it's lumpy though. I posted a video of the truck idling I'll see if I can find it and post it here.

Sounds like more than a RV cam if it has a lumpy idle. Personally i'd leave that alone and spend your money on a better carb and or ignition. Nothing wrong with an Edelbrock, but if you really want acceleration its tough to beat a Holly or some derivative of it. IE Quikfuel.

[Money_pit]

If the block has the cross hatches from the last hone job you should be good to go. Might be a good idea to grab a double roller timing set and spring for some roller rocker arms. I'd also check with head manufacturer to see if you need different length push rods.
good luck there's plenty of good help here if you need it

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Average Joe

Sounds like more than a RV cam if it has a lumpy idle. Personally i'd leave that alone and spend your money on a better carb and or ignition. Nothing wrong with an Edelbrock, but if you really want acceleration its tough to beat a Holly or some derivative of it. IE Quikfuel.

I was wondering about that, the 650 avs is a step up from the 600 but we will know soon enough if it's gonna work