Brake lines options

[Cautrell05]

I'm nowhere ready for brake lines yet but am trying to get it planned out. My build is a 47 S10 chassis but the info could be applied to anybody's. Couple options locally. There's the standard plain steel lines that get rusty after a couple months, there's the plastic coated lines that last a bit longer but they are green. They recently came out with a copper alloy line that I used to fix the rear brake line on my daily driver. Black anodized fittings, nice copper color, twice the price but are not supposed to rust out. Looked great going on and was thinking about using them on the 47 but after two months of winter driving the fittings are rusty and the copper is green. I'm thinking about just going with stainless and an fittings. I got stuck buying a $100 37 degree flaring tool a while back so that part world be taken of. Thoughts and opinions welcome
Thanks
Nick

[YukonXL04]

Maybe a prebent stainless set for an s10? I just did the lines on my all stock 50. Took about 4 hours to remove all the old rusty hard lines and install the new stainless set. It ran me $160 but again that's a stock setup. Not sure what an s10 setup would be

[Cautrell05]

between my s10 frame being wider than normal, and the master cylinder being under the cab, there's not a whole lot of the factory kit that would fit. I figured going into it I would have to make all of the brake lines. Just leaning more towards the stainless and being done with it.

[dsraven]

check out the eastwood flaring tool. looks nice but have never actually laid eyes on one. that said, I have done many brake lines with a standard flaring tool set up and it is easy once you figure out how it works and what not to do etc. premade steel lines are pretty cheap and some come with a coating of antirust on them. buy ones that are just a bit too long if there isn't a premade on the right size, then cut and flare one end to fit. that way you only have to flare one end of the line. there are connector fittings for runs that would require more than one line and maybe some fellas would say that is a no-no but the factory used the same mentality on these and other trucks/cars so it shouldn't be thought of as a no-no to have a connector mid-line. there are also some cool tubing benders so you don't kink a line, just be sure to get the right size for the tube you are using. hey, try it, it isn't brain surgery. as well, a lot of hydraulic hose shops can make up the flexible lines if you can't find the right ones for your set up. they can even make the cool steel braid ones.

[whozawazzit]

I went with nicopp on mine, I plan on either painting them or using some clearcoat. Having dealt with stainless fittings often at work in the past I know how much of a pain stainless can be to get to not leak.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by whozawazzit

I went with nicopp on mine, I plan on either painting them or using some clearcoat. Having dealt with stainless fittings often at work in the past I know how much of a pain stainless can be to get to not leak.

Same here,, SS can be a real PIA. We use Nicopp almost exclusively unless it already has steel for the majority of the lines. Nicopp bends easier, flares easier, which out weighs the cost factor. If you wanted to buff it and clear coat it it looks real nice with SS mounting clips.

[OrrieG]

I used lines from NAPA already flared with fittings. You can run the length of the frame with only one coupling. Still had to terminate and flare one end of each line, but cut the work in half. Started out with an inexpensive flaring tool, found it kinked more than bent, so stepped up and got a good one. All my lines are tucked up in the frame and secured with the metal/rubber "d" clips with SS fasteners. I got an old school Imperial flaring set at an estate sale that still looks and works like new.

[mr48chev]

I'm not a big fan of those green lines from the parts houses as they seem a bit brittle to me.

For years I used the standard issue Snap On tube flare tool that I bought in the early 70's off the tool truck but I bought the Eastwood tool on sale last year http://www.eastwood.com/professional...14caAkJw8P8HAQ and love it. The only issue with it is that you really need a vise close at hand to use it with and you have to take the line to it rather than flare the line on the rig.

I've always bought lengths of tubing at the parts house and then cut and flared the pieces I needed to have fit in a specific spot to get just the right length but have been looking pretty seriously at buying the tubing by the roll and getting a tube straightener from Eastwood as I have a number of brake line jobs to do in the next couple of years.

[yossarian19]

Nickel-Copper. No contest. OEM on Volvo - never seen them rust, even, and if you use a non rusting fitting they'll last forever. Easier to work, too.
You can go stainless i fyou want but its high dollar too and harder to work with.

[_Ogre]

i used a stainless straight line kit from inlinetube.com and it worked well
it is hard to flare, cheap flaring tools don't work well with ss

since your not going to drive it much in foul weather or with snow/salt on the road
orrieg's suggestion of pre-flared lengths might work best
i used a few of them around the mc to the residual valves

i am not a fan of the rolls of tubing as they never seem to lay flat or straight
straight line sections are easy to bend and lay flat/straight
napa, auto zone and oriellys all have 6'' to 6' lengths in stock
they are easy to work with and chances are you may not need to flare any tube ends

[whozawazzit]

I bought those mounting clips as well. If only it wasn't 5 degrees in my garage I might actually work on it.

Originally Posted by dwcsr

If you wanted to buff it and clear coat it it looks real nice with SS mounting clips.

[paintman]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i used a stainless straight line kit from inlinetube.com and it worked well
it is hard to flare, cheap flaring tools don't work well with ss

since your not going to drive it much in foul weather or with snow/salt on the road
orrieg's suggestion of pre-flared lengths might work best
i used a few of them around the mc to the residual valves

i am not a fan of the rolls of tubing as they never seem to lay flat or straight
straight line sections are easy to bend and lay flat/straight
napa, auto zone and oriellys all have 6'' to 6' lengths in stock
they are easy to work with and chances are you may not need to flare any tube ends

Ogre, I am curious to know what kind of flare you put on your SS lines. I used SS and Eastwoods flaring tool with 45 double flare. Inline tube claims you can double flare their SS tubing. I had know trouble flaring it but have not bleed the brakes yet so I don't know. The Eastwood flaring tool is a dream to work with. it's pretty much idiot proof.
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[paintman]

More pics of Eastwoods flaring tool with SS lines from inline tube.
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[Speedbumpauto]

Man, that Eastwood kit is sweet. I'm so tired of the wing nut junk I have I'm ready to spend some money. SO...has anyone tried the Mastercool portable hydraulic set up? Pricey but if you're going to spend $200, what's an extra hundred, if it's a quality setup. It appears you could take it to the car.

[1958Warrior]

I'm using the 3/16 coated steel line kit from Eastwood , It was around $25. had to buy a few fittings from the parts store , and used the stock Brake lines for the Camaro clip/ rear end. Yes they are green and if anyone crawls under my truck and wnts to B**ch about it will get a boot in the a..nyway.. they've been on the truck for Over 6 months no rust .I used all double flare fittings . Not a show truck ,they do what there suppose to.Easy to work with.

Overseas they use plain copper tubing...legal over there.

Actually SS lines are only suppose to use a single flare and -AN fittings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0PJTRKr0RU

I used this style of flaring tool worked extremely well think it was only $20:

http://atdtools.com/5480

[Advanced Design]

Originally Posted by Speedbumpauto

Man, that Eastwood kit is sweet. I'm so tired of the wing nut junk I have I'm ready to spend some money. SO...has anyone tried the Mastercool portable hydraulic set up? Pricey but if you're going to spend $200, what's an extra hundred, if it's a quality setup. It appears you could take it to the car.

I have one and really like it. Only issue was sticking dies making the GM fuel line ends and lube solved that. Have used it a lot over several years and so far no other issues.

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by Speedbumpauto

Man, that Eastwood kit is sweet. I'm so tired of the wing nut junk I have I'm ready to spend some money. SO...has anyone tried the Mastercool portable hydraulic set up? Pricey but if you're going to spend $200, what's an extra hundred, if it's a quality setup. It appears you could take it to the car.

I've had the Mastercool set since some time around 2003? I also have some of their tubing benders. The MC set is nice. Like any tool sometimes it works and sometimes it's not appropriate. I've been able to shorten rusty lines and reflare where they're in better condition, which is difficult to do with a twist type bender. It takes a little practice to get used to it and it can feel clumsy to use. Since the tool slides over the end of the line you need enough clearance to make it work. I can't give up the wingnut tool but the hydraulic one does 95% of the work for me. And I can also form quick connect fittings, GM Saginaw EFI fittings, and trans cooler line fittings.

As far as the tubing material, the copper / nickel formulations are easier to form but they are also less resistant to chafing and they will turn green if exposed to enough moisture. To prevent chafing use plenty of support clips and make sure nothing is rubbing on the tubing. With any double flare it's always a good idea to work the tubing nut back and forth several times to seat a new fitting and help force the line to confirm to the piece it's being attached to. Even new, pre-flared lines can feel tight but leak if this is not done.

[YukonXL04]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

With any double flare it's always a good idea to work the tubing nut back and forth several times to seat a new fitting and help force the line to confirm to the piece it's being attached to. Even new, pre-flared lines can feel tight but leak if this is not done.

That's good info. I didn't know that. Thanks. I will go back and do this before I fill and bleed my system

[paintman]

[QUOTE=1958Warrior;7445461]
Actually SS lines are only suppose to use a single flare and -AN fittings:

This was copied directly from inline tubes web site.....
Can I double flare stainless steel tube by hand?
Yes, you can double flare stainless steel lines bought from Inline Tube. Our tube is fully annealed and is very easy to work with. We recommend and offer several good flaring tools: Rigid, Imperial Eastman or Blue Point. Carefully follow all the instructions that come with the tool and the tubing, and the flare will be perfect every time

What is a 45 degree versus a 37 degree flare?
All factory produced automobiles use the industry standard, which is a 45 deg. double flare using one flare fitting. The double flare is stronger and needs no support sleeve. 37 deg or AN, which stands for Army/Navy standard, is used on military equipment and for non-automotive uses. When using AN on automotive components (masters, wheel cylinders), each AN fitting must be used with an adapter, a sleeve and a nut with a single flare.


Is stainless steel harder to seat than OEM steel?
Both materials seat the same. The tubing is not what causes the line not to seat. Most of the time you are reusing a master or wheel cylinder and the seat in the used component has a seat ring from the old line. When reusing old components with new lines, either stainless or OEM steel, they must form a seat in the component. To form a good seat, loosen the line slightly and retighten several times. This allows the two materials to re-form together and create a strong seat.

[_Ogre]

always use a double flare on brake lines, single flare can crack the flare face even on stainless

i used a combination of old rigid flare tool and a new hydraulic snap-on flare tool
the rigid tool would slip if i didn't clamp it in my vice and tighten the bezeebers out of it
even then the tube would slip and i broke 2 of the double flare inserts before i finished

the snap-on hydraulic flare tool was a dream to use to make bubble flares and gm fuel line connections
it also made good double flares in 3/16 brake lines, unfortunately the guy bought it after i did most of my brake lines
i did get to use it when some of the lines around the MC leaked

cut tubing with a cutoff wheel in a grinder, debur inside with a drill bit and outside with a file
don't use tubing cutters as they take a lot more effort to debur the tube and work hardens the end your flaring

a good bender also makes for a nice looking professional installation
use a line size, small radius bender, not the universal benders, if you want nice tight bends
they bend close to flare nuts, handy for bending lines at the MC

[Wasted Income]

Another vote for cupronickel brake lines. Built two trucks with them and they're both holding up well.

[OrrieG]

Old School, good American tool steel probably pre WWII. Got it from a retired machinist with a bunch of other vintage instruments and tools. He was having a living estate sale with two tables of stuff. I started picking and choosing while we were talking. He finally said "look, its late, and you are the only person that has shown a real interest in this stuff. This is all my extras, so how about $xx for the whole lot so I don't have to haul it back in the shop". I agreed and ended up with some nice stuff. Works great and did not have one flare leak.

[Rickysnickers]

I had to fix the brake lines on my truck. I had an old style flaring tool that I didn't like much. I bought one these, https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/precisi...ing-flare-tool and it worked great.

[1project2many]

Orrie... that's the same kit as I have. And I bought mine at a yard sale in MT, from a former mechanic that it turned out once worked at the dealership I was at. But I don't have the nice foam separator and I've managed to stuff two tubing cutters in the box with the flaring tool.

Rickysnickers, that's a cool flaring tool.

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by Rickysnickers

I had to fix the brake lines on my truck. I had an old style flaring tool that I didn't like much. I bought one these, https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/precisi...ing-flare-tool and it worked great.

Ditto. My Rigid 37* flare tool is awesome. I did all my hard lines for fuel, brakes, boost controller, and boost/vacuum lines with mine.