Starting my engine build

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

There's a good story behind this I can tell lol lets hear it

Lets just say a small pebble in the driveway under a wheel can cause the stand to tilt while pushing it along with a long block 406 bolted to it. Fresh rebuild.

Broke the crank in half behind the #1 journal and cracked the block.

Even crappier part was... it wasn't mine.

Gary

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

Lets just say a small pebble in the driveway under a wheel can cause the stand to tilt while pushing it along with a long block 406 bolted to it. Fresh rebuild.

Broke the crank in half behind the #1 journal and cracked the block.

Even crappier part was... it wasn't mine.

Gary

Ouch, it made me cringe just reading it. I think I would've lost my lid right there in the driveway

[Mrturner1]

Now we're talkin!

[Mrturner1]

So since its basically just the block, how do I hook the hoist to the engine to get it out?

[toolboxchev]

Pulling that Motor will make however you are building it much easier.

[Ironangel]

Piece of 3/8 tow chain about 2' ft long. Use a short head bolt or a grade-8 7/16-14 X 2" long bolt in one of the head bolt holes. You'll need two, one for each side, one near the front and the other near the rear of the motor so the chain loosely spans the lifter valley diagonally. You'll hook the hoist near center of the motor on the chain. You may need to use lifting lugs to fasten the chain to the bolts or the lugs with small clevises and then a bolt through the lifting lug and screwed well into the block. You may need to protect the mating surface of the heads from scratches and nicks from the chain or lifting hardware. If using head bolts presents a problem, you can use a couple of grade-8 3/8-16 bolts. One in a water pump hole at the front of the block and the other in one of the transmission bell housing holes at the rear. You'll need a little longer length of chain for those hook on points. The first pic shows a block being lifted with head bolts... You can sometimes use a lifting lug to bolt the chain to the block if the chain links wont allow a bolt to pass through. I've used the factory lifting lugs just to keep the chain from binding on the bolts or breaking over the thin castings of the lifter valley front and rear. Heres some pics of the lugs. I like to use these in the 1/4" size. SWL is 1000lbs and they fit right through 1/4"-3/8" high test chain links. "Shackles" are another name for them.

[swamp rat]

I would recommend if you don't have a clevis that the chain be long enough to make a loop with a bolt nut/washer for the picker hook so the engine cant shift once its lifted, the loop should be just forward of the center of the engine block if pulled by itself (which i read you planed on doing)

I got to say i tend to agree with Grumpy on this one, partly because you are taking the guys word on the life of the build, if it was me I'd take the short block to the machine shop and let him take it apart and reassemble the short block as you described previously that way you will know all the oil galley's are cleaned, fresh bearings, honed and rings and nice and clean. Bring it back mount it to the engine stand and assemble the long block yourself. Its a fresh start and its good insurance.

EDIT: If you still choose not to do this then if it was me I'd think about pulling the bearing caps and inspecting the journals and the cap half of the bearing to see that wear is acceptable, you could also do a quick Plasti Guage check to see if bearing clearance is within spec. Of course this will mean finding another torque spec and sequence. The other part of the equation is the end play on the crank which should be checked.

Whatever you to do use caution when torquing the head bolts as that 3 wheeled lift can and will tip over if your not careful, when i did mine i had to hang on the the back of the stand and i rolled the engine over to my work bench for a bit of stability.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

I would recommend if you don't have a clevis that the chain be long enough to make a loop with a bolt nut/washer for the picker hook so the engine cant shift once its lifted, the loop should be just forward of the center of the engine block if pulled by itself (which i read you planed on doing)

I got to say i tend to agree with Grumpy on this one, partly because you are taking the guys word on the life of the build, if it was me I'd take the short block to the machine shop and let him take it apart and reassemble the short block as you described previously that way you will know all the oil galley's are cleaned, fresh bearings, honed and rings and nice and clean. Bring it back mount it to the engine stand and assemble the long block yourself. Its a fresh start and its good insurance.

EDIT: If you still choose not to do this then if it was me I'd think about pulling the bearing caps and inspecting the journals and the cap half of the bearing to see that wear is acceptable, you could also do a quick Plasti Guage check to see if bearing clearance is within spec. Of course this will mean finding another torque spec and sequence. The other part of the equation is the end play on the crank which should be checked.

Whatever you to do use caution when torquing the head bolts as that 3 wheeled lift can and will tip over if your not careful, when i did mine i had to hang on the the back of the stand and i rolled the engine over to my work bench for a bit of stability.

Here's the thing, I can keep taking it a step further over and over til I eventually have a new motor, but then why not just get the ATK short block and be done with it. A 383 short block is 1400 bucks, it's about 1000 to freshen up mine. The 383 with the parts I have would be way over 400hp and probably close to 500lb ft of torque, estimated obviously but it would be roudy and new from the bottom up. Pulling the engine and cleaning on the stand was the best choice two days ago, but then a step further is always right in front of me.

Get it clean and reassemble and get it started is the only way to not sink a bunch of money into an old short block. I'm still under 1500 bucks this far and I have all the parts to reassemble, that's pretty good. If I spend another 7-8-900 on the short block id start to wonder why not just get a new one with high performance crank and pistons

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Here's the thing, I can keep taking it a step further over and over til I eventually have a new motor, but then why not just get the ATK short block and be done with it. A 383 short block is 1400 bucks, it's about 1000 to freshen up mine. The 383 with the parts I have would be way over 400hp and probably close to 500lb ft of torque, estimated obviously but it would be roudy and new from the bottom up. Pulling the engine and cleaning on the stand was the best choice two days ago, but then a step further is always right in front of me.

Get it clean and reassemble and get it started is the only way to not sink a bunch of money into an old short block. I'm still under 1500 bucks this far and I have all the parts to reassemble, that's pretty good. If I spend another 7-8-900 on the short block id start to wonder why not just get a new one with high performance crank and pistons

Well, part of the probably actually is that you are this far. You have it soo far tore apart that you have opened up so many possibilities for contamination and possible reassembly issues. So, what some people are suggesting, is have someone with more experience at least help to guarantee that you are starting off with a good short block. I think that money spent would help to insure that you continue to be successful with this build. If something were to go bad during the reassembly and it wiped out your crank and cam, etc. then you'd really be set back with not much to show for it other than the experience. Another $900 or whatever does sound like a lot, but in the end, you'd really know what you have, know everything is new or to spec, and have a solid foundation for your heads and intake. I'm not trying to push you to that really, but just explaining why the suggestions for doing that are being posted.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Here's the thing, I can keep taking it a step further over and over til I eventually have a new motor, but then why not just get the ATK short block and be done with it. A 383 short block is 1400 bucks, it's about 1000 to freshen up mine. The 383 with the parts I have would be way over 400hp and probably close to 500lb ft of torque, estimated obviously but it would be roudy and new from the bottom up. Pulling the engine and cleaning on the stand was the best choice two days ago, but then a step further is always right in front of me.

Get it clean and reassemble and get it started is the only way to not sink a bunch of money into an old short block. I'm still under 1500 bucks this far and I have all the parts to reassemble, that's pretty good. If I spend another 7-8-900 on the short block id start to wonder why not just get a new one with high performance crank and pistons

I get your point.

I do have a thought tho, if your goal is to have a 383 stroker why not at least talk to the shop about how much it would cost to add the crank and clearance machining ect and just make it what you want now? that will save you some cash in the long run.

Just want you to think of the possibility's if you plan to eventually go that route. what ever you decide its all good, don't get discouraged by the suggestions, we all want you to succeed.

[Redline novdog]

As you stated earlier(like 10 pages ago WOW!) you have time and some money to put towards this. Do you want to learn and rebuild your own engine? or do you want a short block with a warranty? IMO if you are not partial to the one you have try it yourself. If you have come to the conclusion of how much torque/horsepower you want,then the sky is the limit on a sbc. I am not going to recommend any, because you said you were having fun also.So IMO your choice!

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by swamp rat

I get your point.

I do have a thought tho, if your goal is to have a 383 stroker why not at least talk to the shop about how much it would cost to add the crank and clearance machining ect and just make it what you want now? that will save you some cash in the long run.

Just want you to think of the possibility's if you plan to eventually go that route. what ever you decide its all good, don't get discouraged by the suggestions, we all want you to succeed.

It's really tempting let me tell you haha I think this being my first engine, I'm gonna pull it and clean it but not take it in to the shop. Get it reassembled and have fun with a relatively cheap build. Then I can slowly build the 383 in the garage while I run around with my 350.

[Mrturner1]

Got the barn wall taken down so we're warm and dry at least

[Mrturner1]

When I unbolt the transmission I'm going to go ahead and pull the short block, is there going to be any hangups with the motor attaching to the transmission? Or can I just unbolt the transmission and the motor mounts and pull it

[Mrturner1]

Also did somebody say a couple pages back that those pieces that were cut on my frame were because my truck used to have a manual transmission?

[toolboxchev]

You will have to support it or it will fall! Also stuff a clean rag into the torque converter or it will leak all over the place.

Opps forgot to mention to unbolt the torque converter. Other than that its pretty easy to pull once you are past the alignment pins. They go in fairly easy too.

Some guys like to pull the trans attached to the block, easily done in a truck yet much more obstacles to negotiate.

[tcrist]

Matt,

The way the I do it is pull the engine and trans at the same time. You just need to have something where the drive ling goes to keep the trans fluid from draining all over the place. They have plugs that you can buy that takes care of this or you can just tape a thick plastic baggie over it to try and control it.

If you are going to leave the trans in, you should remove the three bolts out of the torque converter where it bolts to the starter flex plate and slide the torque converter back into the trans. Then block up the trans from falling and pull the engine.

You wanted to change the torque converter anyway so this gives you access.

Remember also that there are two little cutouts on the shaft of the torque converter that has to line up with the pump in the trans.

If you do not do this when installing the engine then you will be replacing the trans or have to have it fixed. When installing the torque converter, spin it and press it towards the back of the trans until it clicks in. I believe it will take two clicks / steps so seat it correctly. The torque converter should set inward of the bell housing about 3/4 to 1".

More later if needed.

[Mrturner1]

So if I leave the trans bolted to the engine is it easier to do? And what would I remove to do that? Driveline, motor mounts, starter wires, trans dip stick, trans cooler lines, anything else?

[tcrist]

Pull the drive line, trans lines, starter wires, speedometer cable and maybe the starter.
The trans dipstick can stay as well as the starter.
Pulling the starter will just give you more clearance at the frame but is really not needed.

You really have to tilt the whole thing to get it out.

Do you have an engine leveler? It could help. Especially when installing the whole setup back in when it is all together.

Like I had stated before, I like pulling and installing everything at once. But that is just me.

On your first post you said something about having someone to help. Is he helping or are you on your own? How much does this person really know?

[Grumpy old man]

WHOA ! NO need to pull all that out !!! It will be so unbalanced you'll never get it over the radiator support !!

Support the trans (a piece of plywood on a floor jack under the trans pan will work )don't put a jack under just the trans pan it will bend
Remove the converter to flex plate bolts (don't mis place them )
Remove the starter and wire it to the frame so it doesn't hang on the wires
Remove the engine to trans bolts
(the block wont move as it's still resting on the locating pins)
Get the block and engine lift set up (as described above with chain going diagonally across the block )
Slightly put some lift up with the engine lift to settle the chain and make sure everythings secure
Remove the 2 bolts in the engine mounts and add some more lift and with a little persuasion it will come apart .

Pulling the trans with just the short block together will be so unbalanced you'll never lift it high enough to get it over the radiator support and having all that weight supported above your head unbalanced On your first pull by yourself is CRAZY and NOT SAFE !
Never put yourself under all that weight with a free engine lift you just got and never used before ,Jack that engine lift up and down a few times(BEFORE YOU USE IT ) just to see how high it will lift and how easy it is to let down .BE SAFE NOT SORRY ! I've been pulling engines and transmissions since the early 1970's and never dropped one yet ,Take your time and don't get squished !

P.S. NEVER USE 3 WHEEL ENGINE STANDS .

I looked back at the picture of the cut cross member someone cut it out because it's real hard to remove with the cab in place so they just cut it out . look at you vin code is it CE or CS ? it may have started life as a 6 cylinder .

P.S.S. once you have it lifted up it's easier to roll the truck back than pull the engine forward on the lift .

[swamp rat]

Good advice on jacking the lift all the way up first, its been stored probably with the hydraulic cylinder laying flat, its possible some of the hydraulic fluid could have leaked out, if too much had leaked out the lift won't go all the way up. You can buy fluid at auto parts stores.

Personally doing this by myself i would separate the engine and tranny.

[BrianG]

Also, the lift may not go high enough inside that garage to pull them both out together. Another reason to separate them, just to be safe.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

WHOA ! NO need to pull all that out !!! It will be so unbalanced you'll never get it over the radiator support !!

Support the trans (a piece of plywood on a floor jack under the trans pan will work )don't put a jack under just the trans pan it will bend
Remove the converter to flex plate bolts (don't mis place them )
Remove the starter and wire it to the frame so it doesn't hang on the wires
Remove the engine to trans bolts
(the block wont move as it's still resting on the locating pins)
Get the block and engine lift set up (as described above with chain going diagonally across the block )
Slightly put some lift up with the engine lift to settle the chain and make sure everythings secure
Remove the 2 bolts in the engine mounts and add some more lift and with a little persuasion it will come apart .

Pulling the trans with just the short block together will be so unbalanced you'll never lift it high enough to get it over the radiator support and having all that weight supported above your head unbalanced On your first pull by yourself is CRAZY and NOT SAFE !
Never put yourself under all that weight with a free engine lift you just got and never used before ,Jack that engine lift up and down a few times(BEFORE YOU USE IT ) just to see how high it will lift and how easy it is to let down .BE SAFE NOT SORRY ! I've been pulling engines and transmissions since the early 1970's and never dropped one yet ,Take your time and don't get squished !

P.S. NEVER USE 3 WHEEL ENGINE STANDS .

I looked back at the picture of the cut cross member someone cut it out because it's real hard to remove with the cab in place so they just cut it out . look at you vin code is it CE or CS ? it may have started life as a 6 cylinder .

P.S.S. once you have it lifted up it's easier to roll the truck back than pull the engine forward on the lift .

Thank you for the checklist Grumpy you're a lifesaver

[Mrturner1]

Got an engine house chain, all bolts pulled and ready to lift

[Mrturner1]

How many bolts do I have to remove on each motor mount? Is there a 3rd that's impossible to get to?