Lets talk brake kits Kore3 VS, Willwood and CPP

[bigo181979]

What are peoples thoughts on the Kore3 vs Wilwood vs any other kits. I am trying to get the best bang for the buck both ascetically speaking as well as, fit, quality, and function.

[skorpioskorpio]

Tobin at Kore3 is awesome. I had him do custom offset front hubs for my build and the guy would have them CADed up and sent off to me for review by the end of the day. We did several back and forth revisions. I am going to be using Corvette Z51 brakes on mine from them, everything was very well made, he even assisted in coming up with custom double front caliper brakets for my project. I cannot praise this company enough.

I will be using some Wilwood components (remote master cylinder reservoirs, check valves and purportioning valve) as well as some from CPP (Corvette style master cylinder and modular 73-87 drop spindles) and Scotts Hotrods (underfloor pedal assembly and remote reservoir master cylinder cap) as well as Hydroboost from Vanco and a custom power steering pump from Lees with all the returns built into the reservoir and pressure bleed off valves from Heidts Hotrods to run differing pressure for the Hydroboost and the rack from the same pump. Kore3 also did the rear brakes specifically for a Moser Engineering Ford 9" with Torino ends. Corvette parking brakes are internal drums inside the rear rotors, and rotors are from DBA (Disk Brakes Australia), unidirectional sloted and vented.

Wilwood, Baer, Stainless Steel Brake Corp, Brembo fixed caliper opposing piston type brakes are much more expensive to maintain in the long run compared to the 2 piston PBR sliders from the Z51 (single piston rear). You can spend a lot on brakes, a lot. Some of these brakes have individual padlets for each piston.

Also just so you know the Z51 brakes are 13.5" rotors front and 13" rear, in my application they clear my 18" front rims by about 1/8-3/16" close enough that I need to pull the wheel weights off and relocate them further out because the normal placement of wheel weights just touches the caliper. I believe Kore3 also makes a kit to do Z06 rotors with Z51 calipers which are another 1/2" larger yet.

So there you go, that ought to scramble your head for a while. It can all get very complicated pretty fast.

[mechanic350]

I've never used any of kore 3 products so I'm not going to comment on something I don't know anything about. I just installed wilwood 13" super lite brakes front and rear on my 1972. I love the look of them and I have plenty of clearance on my 18" boss 338's. Do your research on whatever you decide to go with. I had already installed my rear brakes (which Require pulling axle shafts to bolt the mounting flange to the axle housing) when I found out that I had looked over the fact that my specific kit required CPP spindles to be installed so I had to shell out the cash for that. I had read it when I was looking into them but didn't fully realize till later. Also the kit I purchased has a built in parking brake in the rear disc's (internal drum in the rear disc) which was my main reason for purchasing it. I spent way more than was necessary to put disc brakes all the way around but I wanted wilwood disc brakes with 6 pistons up front and 4 rear. Major overkill but it's my money so whatever. Good luck with whatever swap you go with. The guys at CPP are super helpful if you need any help.

[skorpioskorpio]

First pic is of the Kore3 rear parking drum and caliper mount:



Next is of the clearance of the front assembly with 18" wheels, also shows the custom Kore3 hub:



This is the custom double caliper bracket to deal with the increased offset on the hub, note that the CPP spindle needed to be milled on the backside for this:

[bigo181979]

Yeah I have talked to Tobin back and forth through a couple emails over the last couple days and must say he has been very great to deal with and responds super fast. I like the idea that I can use off the shelf parts down the road that I can pick up pretty much anywhere.

[skorpioskorpio]

Yea off the shelf wear parts is a huge plus for me, even using the DBA rotors they are available from dozens of vendors as are Hawk pads and calipers are a parts counter part. I personally like the little extra bite you get from slots, but slotted rotors wear the pads faster and you almost need to replace the rotors every brake job to maintain that, so easy access to parts is a biggy.

In the end I may have actually paid a little more for a little less by going with the custom Z51 setup, but they are still very respectable brakes, way better than any of the typical conversion kits, and a front brake job that replaces everything is around $300 and not $6-700 or even over a grand if you get into modular rotors. California canyons and spirited driving means brakes are a really important part of a car you really want to drive.

Anyway this is how I view it.

[jtp67-72]

Tobin's zo6 setup...14's and 13's....4 and 6 piston.....A second "AMEN" on Tobin at Kore 3....unreal service....u can buy cheaper stuff but no better service...Jim

[mcmlxix]

Originally Posted by skorpioskorpio

This is the custom double caliper bracket to deal with the increased offset on the hub, note that the CPP spindle needed to be milled on the backside for this:

Hey Skorpio,

Are these factory C10 spindles?
Also, was it a custom hub?

[Rod Run]

Originally Posted by mcmlxix

Hey Skorpio,

Are these factory C10 spindles?
Also, was it a custom hub?

He stated that it's a CPP spindle, right before he posted this picture

I've never bought anything from Tobin YET...... But because of his knowledge and helpfulness when I've called with questions, I will be using him for my next uograde

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by mcmlxix

Hey Skorpio,

Are these factory C10 spindles?
Also, was it a custom hub?

Yes it's a CPP Modular spindle, the "rough" side of bracket mounting holes were machined, spot faced, so that the double brackets could be used.

Kore3 also made custom hubs for me for the Z51 Corvette rotors and pin mount wheel adapters.

Here are the pin mount wheel adapters:


And this is the rotor, hub, adapter, caliper in the wheel checking for clearance, which BTW it clears the 18" wheels by about 1/8th of an inch. Actually have to move the balance weights further out so they don't hit the caliper.


Rotors are DBA T4000 series Omni directional slotted rotors. OEM Z51 rotors are drilled, which I personally don't care for.

[mcmlxix]

I guess I missed the 73-87 part. I was trying to figure out if Tobin had a hub for for the truck spindle. The Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 has huge brakes and 6 piston calipers grabbing 14" rotors and they use a 5x5 bolt pattern. With the right offset on the hub, it could be another bolt on Brembo brake package with off the shelf parts....

[skorpioskorpio]

The difference between the 73-87 spindles and the 67-72s are the ball joints, the 73- spindles use a larger more stout joint, the geometry is the same as is the unmachined part. CPP offers it both ways.

The Z06 kits from Kore3 use a 14" rotor (as opposed to the Z51s 13.5) and use the 6 piston stationary caliper. But, like I said earlier, a brake redo is twice as much and aside from beating it on the track won't make a huge difference in actual usable braking given that you need to run a 19 or 20 inch rim just to clear them, so your spinning mass is actually going to almost nullify the extra braking.

The big multi piston calipers are cool and all, but for me at least I intend to drive my project, well, the way I drive, and that means I'm not really looking for brake jobs that are a grand in parts every time.

[57larry]

CPP's stuff is junk

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by 57larry

CPP's stuff is junk

Not sure what that's directed at, virtually every aftermarket front suspension setup from almost any manufacture is using one of the CPP spindles and most aftermarket braking systems are using the CPP master cylinder. I am using both and they seem to be decent quality castings, cleaner than most OEM castings I've seen.

[Rod Run]

Originally Posted by skorpioskorpio

Not sure what that's directed at, virtually every aftermarket front suspension setup from almost any manufacture is using one of the CPP spindles and most aftermarket braking systems are using the CPP master cylinder. I am using both and they seem to be decent quality castings, cleaner than most OEM castings I've seen.

I think most people say that stuff because "they heard" it's junk, so they just pass the info along without having any real experience with it.

As far as CPP goes, anytime I've called them for any reason, they've been more than helpful towards me. They have also explained much of the false information out there about them. I honestly believe that when most people are less than pleased with their stuff, it's because they don't 100% understand what they are buying. They don't realize that when CPP says something about "track width" or fitment, it's not the same for every year and application. People need to know what CPP uses as a reference point, when they describe the differences. I could not have been more pleased with their spindle fitments and caliper brackets when I bought them

If I went by what I read online about them, I would have never purchased one part from them, but I've been doing this long enough to know how to read between the lines on stuff like that.

As you stated in your post, MANY other manufacturers are using CPP's stuff for their packages and builds. If there were that many problems with their stuff, that wouldn't be happening.

[Z10]

Originally Posted by Rod Run

I think most people say that stuff because "they heard" it's junk, so they just pass the info along without having any real experience with it.

As far as CPP goes, anytime I've called them for any reason, they've been more than helpful towards me. They have also explained much of the false information out there about them. I honestly believe that when most people are less than pleased with their stuff, it's because they don't 100% understand what they are buying. They don't realize that when CPP says something about "track width" or fitment, it's not the same for every year and application. People need to know what CPP uses as a reference point, when they describe the differences. I could not have been more pleased with their spindle fitments and caliper brackets when I bought them

If I went by what I read online about them, I would have never purchased one part from them, but I've been doing this long enough to know how to read between the lines on stuff like that.

As you stated in your post, MANY other manufacturers are using CPP's stuff for their packages and builds. If there were that many problems with their stuff, that wouldn't be happening.

Here's a first hand experience with CPP. I did not purchase their brakes or spindles because of all of the issues I've had with them. 2 master cylinder which leaked. On my 3rd brake booster and the third one is leaking now. Check valve on brake booster leaked. Adjustable panhard/track bar. Not enough bend in it to clear my diff cover, had to cut, rebend and add material. Tilt column, had wiring shorts and had to repair. The good news is I haven't had any trouble with my rag joint. Many shipping delays and questions about obvious problems. There was no way I was going to buy spindles or brakes or anything else for that mater.

Currently running Wilwoods from Travis at ProPerformance. Wilwood master cylinder is now installed and a new Summit booster will go on soon.

You can see all of this on my build thread in my sig.

So, do your due diligence. Many, many threads on this forum about the lack of service and quality provided by CPP. All of us can't be making this up.

Where there is smoke...................

[Z10]

Originally Posted by 57larry

CPP's stuff is junk