72 "converted" 4x4 sold for $79,000 at BJ

[davepl]

Originally Posted by CastIron

A restoration can be done at a reasonable price, it just takes more thinking and more time.

That's why mine cost $85K instead of $250K, I did all the work myself (almost).

If my labor were done and priced professionally, it'd be a $300K restoration. But since professionals would be faster than me, you'd be at $250K. Which is ballpark what it costs at any quality restoration shop for a full restoration (with some rust).

I don't mean "Gas Monkey Garage" restorations, I mean Musclecar Restorations or Legendary Motorcar restorations. Drop your keys and a $250K check off and they'll call in two years to tell you what your balance is.

Or you can restore it to look good from 20 feet away for $20K, I know that. The last 20 feet are expensive. The last 3 inches are priceless - that's where you're looking for 2000-grit sanding sratches in chrome or a slight haze in your stainless polishing from the wrong media.

Some will say "you've said that all before", but I repeat it every couple of months when the "That's a really nice truck, the owner must be stupid to spend money" thread comes up.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by CastIron

It is possible to spend a huge amount of money to restore a vehicle, but it isn't necessary.

First off, I would never pay retail price for any parts unless I had to. Almost everything can be found cheaper if a person is willing to spend some time looking. Wait for a sale or consider buying used parts.

And speaking of used parts, it helps to learn how to refurbish things. Not everything has to be new. A lot of smaller parts can be made to look like new with a little work.

This is an excellent take on the hobby,....and I fully agree.
There were literally millions of these trucks made so don't invest money or time that you think someone will pay you for....because it supposedly cost you personally somehow...time and money. Most people either don't care and/or often don't believe the 32,000 hrs @ $150/hr invested angle and most buyers, even serious, would never buy based on that balance sheet...that is something the builder owns solely.....noting perhaps Chip Foose is one of the few exceptions...lol
Anyways, life and certainly economics doesn't work that way 99.5% of the time...never has.

Invest in your truck for you....do not think that everyone is waiting for your personalized masterpiece because many...most? aren't....public adulation and payback comes in about a 5-8 minute review and walk-by at the show'n shine...and that's about it. If it's highly personal...thats different, enjoy your effort....but take the public review value and resale value to the public, out of the question.
Be careful what you put effort and money into.....but most of all enjoy on it a personal basis first.

My two bits.
Coley

[davepl]

Sadly I can't really call spending money on my truck investing, any more than if I played golf I could call it "investing" in my mental health or exercise or something.

Fellows like Grump Old Man that are stockpiling dry parts might be investing - I already have my post-apocalypse barter stuff squared away though :-)

The vast majority of us, since we spend more than its worth, are just spending. Some of us are spending more than others.

If some guy has $20M and spends 50K on a truck is that any crazier than if a guy has $20K and spends $50 bucks on his, given a similar rate of return? Not to me, at least not until you've overrun the value of the truck so wildly that it's just wasting money. And if that $50 bucks is for a steering wheel wrap or fuzzy dice, it's worse!

[Wasted Income]

Can we see pics of this $85k/300k '70 GMC?

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

Can we see pics of this $85k/300k '70 GMC?

Hey, whoa, I never said $300K - that was IF it were done by professionals (like one of maybe 10 shops in the country). And I specifically said my work is NOT at a professional level. My truck's not even correct in a number of ways, so I'm not claiming any VALUE, just what I spent (less than 85K, but not much less).

Things that add time: the gas cap and every other original or NOS part that I hand-restored to high lustre/like-new.

Things that add cost: the two reproduction batteries, one T62, one R59, because that's how it came.

So it's that sort of thing - you could have an identical truck with Costco batteries for $600 less. But that kind of thing matters to me.

I also have NOS hubcaps on factory wheels. Do you know what me and 28 other bidders agreed NOS 8-bolt chrome hubcaps are for a one-year (or 2) option? About $1500. So you could have the same truck for $1500 less. Or don't cad-plate the booster, save another $250. Don't rebuild the rear end, the posi is probably fine. Don't dyno the motor, that's almost a grand. Don't replate the carb, that's pricey. You get the idea.

The engine compartment photo is old and unfinished, hence the tape where I'm checking AC o-rings, but I wanted to post an engine photo. Getting all the stock stuff in the right place matters. The engine is painted with autobody supplies and a gun using the correct leaded acrylic enamel. It's even hard to find. But a rattle-can works, I get that.

Since it has the original 402 Big Block, AC, Buckets, Console, Air, Tach, Tilt, Vacuum, Speed Warning, AM/FM, Dana 60 Posi, GM PleasureLift, GM PowerPack Compressor, GM Compass, and more... Honestly it might bring $30K on eBay, but I built it for me, not eBay.

[Wasted Income]

Nice ride. Looks like it just rolled out of the showroom.

[davepl]

A couple of other points:

I chromed the mirrors. I didn't skimp, I chromed -each- little piece, wave-lock-washer, everything. Remember that chrome shops have a minimum fee per piece ($50 at some!). Now you've got mirrors with 30 parts. That adds up. But you could paint them.

I rebuilt the transmission. It ran just fine in the last car it was in, I could have just stuffed it in. Same with the rear end. If I didn't have it torn down, I wouldn't have known one bearing race was turning and needed to be machined and sleeved (all of which costs money).

Have you ever seen a brand new frame? They're smooth, not pitted. Do you really bodywork the frame? Only if you want it smooth like new before you powdercoat it. But you could just pressure wash and POR-15 it.

Do you need new side glass? Depends if you're OK with 40 years of winding up and down scratches and weather. You can save money by re-using your old glass. I reused my back glass.

I mentioned we dyno'd the motor, on an engine dyno, before installing it. Now I know authoritatively how it runs at every load/RPM combination we could come up with. This revealed that with today's gas it needed more initial timing. But then you need to lock out some of the mechanical. So you need a guy with an old Sun distributor machine and the knowledge of how to use it and how to lock out some mechanical advance. I sure don't have a distributor machine, let alone a dyno, so that all costs money.

But you could just set the timing to where it doesn't ping and the mixtures to where it idles nice and be close. And you could just drive it with two feet until it warms up.

I didn't just put in a relay for the headlights, I installed a multiple-relay, multiple-ballast, full 4-beam HID system. But you could run Sylvania headlights.

I have an original body FM radio upgraded with contemporary electronics. But you could run a Custom Autosound. And so on...

So for every element of the restoration, if you ask yourself "What would I genuinely need to do to make this part or system as close to or better than new", things add up. But if your "good enough" level is lower, it saves a ton of money.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. And I'm still going to drive it like a truck. But the only think I'll haul will be babies in cloth diapers (no pins) and pillow top mattresses (upside down only). In a year or two I'll get a little more casual with it, but I want to enjoy the fleeting "new truck" smell and feel for a while.

[Coley]

Very nice truck Dave!...very nicely done.
Quick questions:
-Are you going to add a tilt at any point? (first years for the tilt was '70 I think?...)
-Is this the truck that you might add the A/pressure gauge? (do you have air bag suspension in it?)
all Good
Coley

[davepl]

This is a better example of a finished engine compartment from my other car, since the truck one was incomplete. Gotta get the little tape stickers in place on the brake lines, with the correct colored tube nuts, and so on.

And I am totally casual compared to the NSCR Corvette guys! Wait'll those guys run out of Corvettes and start restoring our trucks :-)

[BrianG]

I agree with what you are saying DavePL. It always annoys me when this subject comes up and there are a bunch of posts that say that 'they' could build the same truck for $15,000 (or whatever, just a number) and seem to hint that everyone else should be able to also. I've done a lot to my truck, but there are a lot of things that I either didn't have the tools, shop, talent, or whatever, to be able to do myself. So, it cost me a whole lot more that $15,000 to build my truck. I relate this back to buying or building a house. I built my own and saved a ton. I was fortunate enough to have the know how to do so though. I guess, even with my house, I hired out things like the foundation, excavation, drywall and insulation. So even there, I could have saved even more if I were to do those things myself, but then I'd need to buy some heavy equipment to do the excavation, and learn a new trade to do the drywall, etc. The point is, I did 'most' of it myself and saved a bunch of money. I however, don't go out and tell people not to pay the 'going rate' for a new house because they could build it for much cheaper. Truth is, most people couldn't build it themselves, so they pay to have someone else do it. Not that much different than a vehicle. Anyhow... I agree with what DavePL is saying, but can almost guarantee that this issue will come up again and again, with some differences in opinion on what a vehicle is actually worth.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Coley

Very nice truck Dave!...very nicely done.
Quick questions:
-Are you going to add a tilt at any point? (first years for the tilt was '70 I think?...)
-Is this the truck that you might add the A/pressure gauge? (do you have air bag suspension in it?)
all Good
Coley

Yes, it already has tilt. It didn't originally, but I'm tall and the new seat foam is full, and I kind of needed it. But you could slouch :-)

This is the truck I want the air pressure gauge for. I have the GM compressor. I was going to use a stock air reservoir but now I'm thinking unless it's NOS I don't trust a rusty old tank.

I have the shocks and the Hadley horns, all GMC accessories. One reason it was important to get all NOS for that is so that the gauge and regulator are "new" when I mount them under dash.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Anyhow... I agree with what DavePL is saying, but can almost guarantee that this issue will come up again and again, with some differences in opinion on what a vehicle is actually worth.

I like your analogy - I did a ton of work on my own home but don't feel compelled to make other people feel stupid because they "paid retail" for their home.

For the vast majority of us this is a hobby vehicle, not our work truck or primary driver (for some it is, I know that), so it's truly a first-world argument, as they say.

I also, though, understand the instinct - no one wants to scrimp and save and bust knuckles for years so that some rich trust fund baby can write a check at Barrett Jackson without caring what it cost and wind up with a nicer truck.

As someone who's been laying under mine getting dirty for 3 years, I pose no such risk!

[Coley]

Originally Posted by davepl

Yes, it already has tilt. It didn't originally, but I'm tall and the new seat foam is full, and I kind of needed it. But you could slouch :-)

This is the truck I want the air pressure gauge for. I have the GM compressor. I was going to use a stock air reservoir but now I'm thinking unless it's NOS I don't trust a rusty old tank.

I have the shocks and the Hadley horns, all GMC accessories. One reason it was important to get all NOS for that is so that the gauge and regulator are "new" when I mount them under dash.

So you are after NOS on the a/p gauge?

Coley

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Coley

So you are after NOS on the a/p gauge?

Coley

Ideally. As long as it's accurate and the face isn't faded/worn, that's all I care. Email me at davepl@davepl.com if you're interested in selling the one in pic!

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by davepl

I chromed the mirrors. I didn't skimp, I chromed -each- little piece, wave-lock-washer, everything. Remember that chrome shops have a minimum fee per piece ($50 at some!). Now you've got mirrors with 30 parts. That adds up. But you could paint them.

I think you and I should switch user names, even though I'm not named dave.


Edit:

Originally Posted by davepl

Email me at davepl@davepl.com

Nevermind, it would be hard to change your website too. lol

[Farm Shop]

Originally Posted by Nitis

$80k plus and the paint is wrong. Why do so many people not paint the tops of the doors!

Because it looks 100000% better than them not matching the top.

Next question?

[dubds10]

Dave any pics of the truck with the stock rims and caps? Or just the newer rims.

I agree on the build detail and amount of $ invested, it's just rare to see them sell anywhere near covering the actual costs to build. Hard to compare the ones at BJ but I know a few people who've gone and reported back saying even the top end builds weren't that great. Of course everything looks great on TV and in photos lol I don't think many will come on saying they can build one for $30g, but I've seen complete frame off down to stock resto builds sell for less. We've had a few in my family and despite the $ and detail it's always what the local market will bare.

[jeffahart]

Well, I've got well over 10K into my truck and it still basically looks the same, except for the wheels. I guess if you know what your looking at you'll see the axles are changed. But, I usually don't dig too long for parts. My life needs to move forward. When I decide to do something I generally take some time to research then I quickly tire of looking for the ultimate deal and move forward with a purchase, price be damned..... forward momentum so to speak. I spent way more time trying to locate a good deal on axles than I had on any whole vehicle purchase. So, I finally bit the bullet and spent. Now I'm happy and the project moves forward. I expect to loose my A$$ when I sell it.

Lets see:
Radiator, water pump, fuel pump, dash pad, AAW wire kit, wheels, axles, seat cover, retro sound, door handles...... I mean the receipt folder is bloated... it needs to go on a freekin diet. I ain't even close to body work, I first have to do: Engine, tranny, transfer, bedwood, body rubber... blaa blaa blaa

It's gonna be waaaay over $25K when I'm done.

$25,000

[cypressbog]

From reading all the posts here and other threads about the cost of trucks and parts, I guess I'm in the minority here. I fully support the ever escalating prices of these trucks.

[CastIron]

I think the biggest trick to saving money while still doing things the right way is finding the right people to help you. There is a lot of good auto body & repair technicians out there who love doing work on the side. If you're lucky enough to find somebody like that it is a great way to save money on labor.

There's a couple things about professional shops that people may not realize. Just because they are expensive and have a good reputation doesn't mean they always do good work. There's always some guys that will take any shortcut they think they can get away with. And a lot of shops will employ people without any formal training. You might be spending $100+ per hour to get your vehicle worked on but the person doing the actual work may only be getting paid $10 per hour.

And just for the record, my pickup is a mostly original, unrestored '69 C1500. I've had it 15 years and have about $5000 into it, including the purchase price. I really only bought it to haul things and have put about 7k miles on since I bought it. It has spent 99% of its like under cover and while the paint is in decent original shape there is a little surface rust on the frame and suspension. I don't really have plans for a full restoration. My plans are to make it safer, more efficient, and more fun to drive.