hood misalignment. nose is high?

[Tulsarust]

Pics of front hood relation to fenders. Fenders bolts are loosened on cowl.

[mr48chev]

Starting with the 4th photo in the album I have copies of the pages in the factory service manual that tell how to adjust the hood. http://s173.photobucket.com/user/mr4...?sort=2&page=1

It should take you through step by step. The tech writers in those days didn't assume that the person reading the directions knew anything about the job so it is very detailed and very easy to follow.

[Tulsarust]

No assumptions on workers skill level? I'll read that again. I'm missing something for sure. Thanks

[mr48chev]

They were dealing with mechanics in the 50's that often didn't have extreme reading skills and wrote the manuals accordingly. Unlike a Chiltons or Haynes manual you buy at the parts house to work on your later model they didn't assume that you had high skills nor did they assume that the person working on the truck had ever worked on one before. Hence easy to follow instructions written at a reading level that anyone can follow.

Walk into a dealers shop now and you better have a couple years of college and then a couple of years of tech school to be able to follow the new manuals.

[joedoh]

take out your spacer under the cab and use two jacks to dial in the height, it looks like maybe you have the cab front too high now, and the hood is over-closing and pulling away from the cowl. It could be that your cab mount was ok and the radiator side needed to go down more than an inch.

[chopit]

I don't have anything to ad other than words of encouragement as its looking a lot better than it was so don't pull your remaining hair out yet, as painful as it is the progress is forward and not backwards lol.

joedoh has messed with these s10 swaps a lot. I wouldn't hesitate to try his idea.

[Tulsarust]

Well, boys I took the pic from the shop manual and really studied the pics of the holes in the cowl. They are quite oblong and I didn't recall that on mine, so I removed the hood for a 3rd time now and found that mine were just single round holes. Guess the PO repaired this area or something. So I opened those up with the old plasma cutter and opened the single hole on the hood bracket a smidgen too. Will try to fit it sometime this week as it is back to work for me tomorrow. If that helps, I will then lower the cab back a little and work the radiator to get back in line.

When you guys are adjusting fenders and the radiator, to you have the fender to inner wheel well fenders tight or are they loose like the bolts to the cowl/cab?

[Tulsarust]

Here is a pic of th3 shop manual photo compared to the holes I had from PO. Ki da hard to see the black holes but they are there. Just cross your eyes a little like those weird posters from the 80's and you'll see dolphins jumping in the background. Ha!

Next is a pic of the new holes and then the new hinge bracket hole enlargement too. I even trimmed the back of the brackets where they touch the cowl too. I'm serious about this thing getting lined up. I want this to be the last time I put the hood on for awhile! Good thing this isn't a show CST bc I don't think I have the patience for that.

[joedoh]

I am not knocking your logic just trying to understand, if the front lines up and the back does not, what will moving the hood backwards do besides pull the front out of line?

hold your hands out palms down and touch middle fingers together so the nails on those fingers almost touch. now tilt one hand down, see howyour nails get further apart? this is what I think is happening, your front is laying down at an angle from the cab and pulling the back of the hood away from the cowl. this is why guys say to get the hood lined up and make the rest of the clip fit.

I am not saying stop what you are doing, only that I dont immediately understand it and am really interested in the outcome.

[dsraven]

what if you take the hinges off and just set the hood down on the clip. will it line up properly? do you get an even gap top to bottom on the cowl? do the fenders fit properly along the sides of the hood? can you remove the rear cab mounts and dial the hood fitment in some by lifting or lowering the rear of the cab, no hinges in place just have the hood sitting on the clip?
is it possible to set the hood down on the clip, without any hinges or latch, and set the gap at the top of the cowl joint to what you would like to see. lots of guys use wooden paint sticks for gap setting because they are about the right thickness.use a couple of pieces of wooden paint stick or whatever placed one on each side in the gap at the top rear of the hood. bring the hood back until it butts up against the sticks. with that done what does the upper to lower gap look like at the cowl joint? good at the top and large at the bottom? if so then it would make sense that either the cab has to come up at the front or down at the rear-so it tips to match the gap, or, the rad support has to drop to allow the hood to come down to decrease the gap. either one will mess with the fender fitment but that may be easier to fix than the hood.
I dunno, just a couple of ideas. keep us posted with the results of what you end up doing.

[Boom]

looks like your biggest problem is just aligning everything since most of the alignment is done using the original radiator core support. I would find an original core support and see if that fixes the problem and then see what reason the original was cut up and find a better solution than the PO did.

[Tulsarust]

Joe. I see your point about moving backward if the fronts are lining up. That's why I was aking if you guys keep the side fenders bolted up to the inner fender since that is what botls to the radiator support. I'm with Boom that my loosey goosey hacked radiator support isn't helping me. I've tacked a support brace low and between the lower inner fenders and then I do have the upper radiator support still bolted into place. Last night I had a great 1/4" to 5/16" even gap around the whole hood and cowl with the hinge loosely attached according to Mr Chevy's shop manual. When I'd pull up on the loosened fenders seemed like I could get an acceptable fit to the hood for me. Didn't get a pic of that because I was too proud of myself for widening the cowl holes like the shop manual mentioned and it helped dramatically. That was short lived.......
Following the shop manual I raised the hood 4" and tried to place a wood block under the nose, but it is just sitting on the flexing , unsupported metal that holds the hood latch. so, I probably wasnt exactly 4" open, but I proceeded. Being a one man show at 11pm after the kids are asleep, I used a nice large 3" car hauler ratchet strap and cinched down the back of the hood onto the cowl like the manual stated, tighten all 4 bolts inside the cab to the hinges, then released the strap and tried to close hood. This is where you might have heard a faint groan of exasperation emanating from a garage in Jenks, Ok!! while the hood was nice and snug onto the new cowl rubber welting at the back of the hood, I lost my nice close and even gap as pictured. Tried this sequence twice and thought I should call it night ask ask for your opinions. I'm getting closer. That's the glimmer of hope.
I will fab a complete square radiator support this weekend for my radiator and that will reduce the wobbles and verify fitment of fenders. 1) Do I tighten the inner fender bolts and then only leave the ones at the cowl loose?
2) I like the paint stick idea for holding gaps, will this help me keeping gaps during the "raise the hood 4" and tighten the 4 bolts" phase?
3) did I fail at the hood strap/hinge bolts or the hood support step to have such a big gap afterward?
I'm embarrassed to tell you how many years of college I have completed yet can't align a hood on a truck from 1949..............When I get it correct though, I'm going to point it out as the first "feature" of the truck!

[Tulsarust]

Just found this guy's video and it looks like he has the hood supports connected loosely before the press down on the back of the hood at the cowl. Don't think I had the supports attached before I strapped down the hood to cowl with spacer before tightening 4 cab bolts. Anyway, here is his link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye5MY06ZN-4

[Tulsarust]

Well, leaving the supports on didn't work either. Either way, with supports or without, I get about the same results of a decent fit,but the gap is almost 1/2" all the way around. This puts the nose put in front of the fenders. All is lined up with hinge bolts loose before the hood is raised and bolts tightened in cab. The one thing that has me scratching my head is when I have hinges loose around all aligned, when I go to raise the hood to put on support block the edge of hood catches on cowl. Last night in tried to place tape or a thin wood shim to help the hood edge on both sides make a smooth lift open.
That's where I stand now. Not satisfied but don't know what to change next. While it is world's better than when I bought it, I'm going to keep trying and learning till it is lined up. I'm all ears for advice.
Also wanted to add that hinges and supports are new reproductions, so there is no play or worn hinges.

[dsraven]

does anybody have one of these on a stock frame who could do a quick measurement from the floor to the top of the frame at different points, front to rear, so he can see if the rad support is in the correct plane compared to the cab mounts? it's gotta be too high by the looks of the hood alignment.
hey tulsarust, snap a few pics of the side of the truck showing fender fitment etc. maybe that will give us a clue.

[Tulsarust]

Raven, this tempermental little truck is sitting on a S10 frame. I think that's why the PO has things so messed up bc he didn't have people like you guys or a thread like OlSarge to help him stay on track. That leaves me trying to massage things back into alignment. But those dimensions you talk about even using the edge of the cowl as a reference would help. I found the Chevy Shop Manual that has rough dimensions, but it's been scanned and hard to read the numbers, but I don't think it had detailed measurements like your talking anyway.
I still think that hinge needs to rotate back with the outer hinge bolt somewhat snug and the upper two loose to get the hood shifted back. I just can't figure out how to prop it push it. I'm gonna keep tinkering till it works though. Thanks for trying to get some dimensions! I'll take some better side pics tonite.

[dsraven]

I haven't really done much as far as setting up a hinge system like these trucks have but was just thinking that since it isn't sitting on the original frame maybe the rad support is too high or low compared to the cab, or the cab is sitting at the wrong angle compared to the rest of the truck.
if you could figure out where the cab floor level is (I assume the cab floor sat parallel with the original frame) and find out if the original rad support was below that plane and by how much, you could compare that to what you have existing and make the required adjustments before you waste any more frustration on the hinges. there is plenty of other stuff to frustrate over, ha ha.
have you tried rotating the hinge clockwise (passengers side view. counterclockwise on the drivers side) to see if the hood will lay in against the cowl properly?

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by Tulsarust

Also wanted to add that hinges and supports are new reproductions, so there is no play or worn hinges.

MIght be part of the issue, geometry may not be the same as original. Keep in mind small changes at the back (cowl) can translate in to big movement at the front. I would take the hinges off and just set the hood where it need to be on the cowl to get the gap you want (that is where I started). Then fit the radiator support and grille where you want it, then the fender to hood gap. Then attach the hinges and see if the gaps are still the same, if not you know the hinges are the issue. If you kept the stock original hinges you could see if they work better and see if there is an obvious difference. I seem to recall others having to modify repop hinges to get them to work, or having to shim the hood or cowl mounts to get the right angles.

[Tulsarust]

Orrie, I'm on it! I'll start on Saturday night and work on it after church on Sunday and post my results. It's gotta be close and I'm just missing a thing or two on the hinges. I've gotta wrap my head around the small difference in hinge position affecting hood/cowl.
Do you keep inner fenders bolts loose too when trying to set fenders?
I also don't have the cowl to fender rods that are at 45 degree angles. Should I make some of those too?