New 72 C10 super! - Need help Identifying Drive line [4x4 conversion]

[alphaparabellum]

I bought this beauty a week ago and it is an awesome old truck. '72 c10 super with camper special options. However It has 4wd. 350/350TH. 205 Transfer case. Lockouts. Ill post pictures. Any help identifying the driveline would be awesome. I am replacing bearings and u joints.

truck

front differential

rear differential

ID

transfer case

[SS Tim]

Remember seeing this on CL!

From the pictures it looks like a C20 on a K10/K1500 frame. The driveline is what would be expected of a K10/K1500.

The SPID is showing a 72 C20 4x2 Cheyenne Super.
First thing I would look at is the door post data plate and the rosette rivets holding it on. If it matches the SPID and the title VIN then it is probably the cab that goes with the SPID.

Then verify the frame number (eight digits), it should be stamped in the upper frame flange above the steering box. My guess is it will not match the last eight of the VIN.

[72 Super]

Welcome to the board from Maryland! Looks like a nice project. What are your plans for it?

Ray

[alphaparabellum]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

I took some pictures of the hubs but I dont think its really necessary to post them. They are 6 bolt hubs [look like K half ton hubs] Thanks for the info about where the fram ID is. The kid thought the truck was all original. I had my suspicions. It has a cheyanne super 10 badge on one side and a cheyanne super 20 on the other. No indication of the K divetrain.

The body badging does, however, reflect the proper engine and presence of disk brakes. Most [if not all] of the options off of the glovebox label are there too: power steering, power disk brakes, stabelizer bar [shock] on the steering arm to dampen steering wheel movement and such. The engine and transmission work beautifully. Its a solid runner and a smooth shifter.

It has drive line shudder [very mild pulsing vibration] at cruising speeds, which I attribute to the worn U joint on the main driveshaft: a two piece variable length driveshaft with splines to take up travel, no center support, and a u joint at the transfer case and rear end, which is an odd but logical choice considering the lift. I can post a picture of it, along with the frame ID and door post ID tomorrow when its light again. So far K10/K1500 drive line parts seem to be a fit [i got gaskets for the front and rear differential, along with 2 u joints for the main driveshaft, rear wheel bearings, bearings and U-joints for the front axle/driveshafts] I have not checked fitment of ujoints and bearings... waiting for a nicer day to tear into it.

It has a pronounced but intermittent grinding/rattling noise at low speeds, mostly while coasting or going down a grade at about 30mph .. totally unpredictable except that when it does happen it seems to happen at the same spot in the road, but not every time... very gremlin-like. Happens with hubs/lockouts free and transfer case in 2H so anything forward of the transfer case shouldnt be moving... I can feel it in my feet and it seems like it is in the front half of the driveline... its weird and I really cant be outside the vehicle while going down the road to figure out what exactly it is. It keeps happening even If I coast in neutral [dont worry Ive only done it a few seconds at a time just to see how it reacts]. However, It goes away when I apply even a slight amount of brake, which is really odd. If anyone has experienced anything similar any insight would be appreciated. I will be testing it at stages throughout the refreshment of the driveline components in hopes of isolating the cause... hopefully replacing the U joints and bearings throughout will eliminate it [crossing fingers].

My plan is to get the truck mechanically refreshed first, and then start restoring cosmetic components of the interior, followed by bodywork, paint and trim as time wears on. Rocker panels are the only thing with anything more than surface rust [this will be the first "cosmetic" issue I address once the driveline is solid. At this point Im thinking I will leave the body on.. the engine bay and engine are clean and the underbody was rhinolined at some point so the sheet steel is in great shape for 44 yrs old. I do need to realign the cab a bit. it is cocked off about 3/4 inch toward the driver's side where the cab meets the bed. its going to be an ongoing restoration for now. I love driving it. Turns a lot of heads around here [the glasspack dual exhaust helps]. I get thumbs up or a nod every time I drive it. That really is second in my mind to how truley tuff this truck is. It fires right up and at Idle it just sits there and rumbles like clockwork. Pure Bada$$ery.

[Chknlyps2]

Hard to tell in your first pic but the hub sticking out of your front wheel looks like a GM Corporate 10 bolt with possibly a stock auto locking hub. GM went from Dana 44's to 10 bolts around 78 -79 (Both have 10 bolt diff covers by the way). The rear looks like a 10 or 12 bolt, hard to count with the shadows and grime. Since the drive train has been swapped who knows if they used the same year front & rear axles or just made what they could find work... or even upgraded to larger u-joints.

Best thing to do is measure the u-joints to see what you have, here is a Spicer page http://spicerparts.com/resources/measuring-u-joints that has all different types of u-joints. Your rears are most likely outside clips (5th illustration in the link) and your front possibly has a double Cardan CV joint on one end. Some Cardan joints have an inside clips (Just like illustration #3 in the above link)

Remember, if you are doing inside clips, the clips should be put on the correct way, they are stamped so one edge is kinda roll over and the other side is sharp and crisp. The u-joint caps want to fling out do to centrifical force, the clips should be installed so the sharp edge holds the grove and fights the centrifical force.

Here is a link to measure double Cardan joint if you have one. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J321-CV.PDF

Youtube of a double Cardan joint being replaced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQl68ZbMWrM

[alphaparabellum]

Thanks for taking the time to post that info!

front diff is 10 bolt, rear is 12 bolt

When I ordered the gaskets I just specified k10, 1972 and bolt number to the dude at oriley and the gaskets he gave me fit so I did the same when ordering Ujoints and bearings and kept the reciept. Ill post pics and measurements when I get them out and a picture of the driveshaft tomorrow along with the other stuff from above.

here are the hubs:

[kwmech]

12 bolt rear axle with a dana 44 front NP 205 transfer case. Pretty basic stuff for a 70s chevy. Looks like it possibly went through a cab swap rather than a conversion to 4wd

[geunther]

Ive had similar vibrations when one of the pinion crush collars was over tightened and was no longer providing pressure. Also make sure drive lines are in time (u joints lined up on opposing ends of drive shaft)

X2 on the front being a Dana 44.

[special-K]

It appears to be a frame/drivetrain from 71/72 or just a cab swap. I see the rear is as it would be pre-73 and the blue dial Spicer hubs. You say a u-joint at the transfer case. There will always be one at each end. Are you saying the yoke is at the axle end? I have seen this on a '68 sitting on a post-72 chassis with 2pc shaft/carrier bearing set-up. Swapped that around first thing.

[alphaparabellum]

I got into er today. started on the dana 44 front end. I have new u joints for the open knuckle with disk brake front axle and they seem to be a fit. I think the spindle bearings on both sides are shot. There was lots of vertical play of the half shaft [through the hub] translating to the knuckle/ujoint but I dont think it translated to the pumpkin enough to damage the carrier bearing? inside the differential. Ill find out when I get the cover off.

Also the lockouts are shot. I took apart, cleaned, greased and reassembled the drivers' side right away when I got the truck because it wouldnt lock. Everything inside looked okay and It worked when i got er back together so I figured the other side was in similar shape and since it locked and unlocked I figured it was fine, but when I got to the passenger side today the grease was full of metal dust. I think this is where the rattling/grindiing was occouring.

The bearing surface of the "locking lug gear" where it rides over the spindle is totally deformed/widened [but thankfuly smooth]. I think there was enough play in the driveshaft to catch splines just enough to grind and/or spin the shaft and since there was so much play it was probably just banging around in there. Both of the hubs look just fine, the outside of the spindles are not worn, and the wheel bearings are tight.

I mistakenly bought outer wheel bearings when what I need are spindle bearings [the needle bearings inside the spindle that the driveshaft rides in] and now I need lockouts. And damnit If me and the old man didnt break the ****!n vice trying to press the U joint out of the passenger side drive shaft. The day kinda ended up being a drag. I got him that vice [a big ba$tard too] for fathers day last year. Guess Ill go rent a puller/press monday or something.