just finished my front crossmember section

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Scot_Douglas

Har dee har har

If I was wasting peoples time, I wouldn't care about your pokes.

My suggestion is a legitimate concern/possibility. Since I'm trying to promote awareness of potential issues & to verifiy these types of possibilities before they make the commitment on a mod like this, I'll ask you to stop now.

[Rochlow]

My goal wasn't to start a conflict.. Just see if there was an alternative for the guy that had a bit of fab skills.

Nate builds a great product, no doubt about that! I have his trailing arms and trailing arm cross member and I think his front crossmember is a work of art. I was just thinking with the introduction of no limits rack and pinion kit that it might make it easier to notch or section a crossmember more than 1.5".
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[richards72chevy]

Would sectioning the crossmember make it week?It looks like it loses alot of metal.If you z'd your frame wouldnt you lose some of your scrub line?I would like to get my 66 realy low but i still want to be able to drive it and not trailer it.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Rochlow

My goal wasn't to start a conflict.. Just see if there was an alternative for the guy that had a bit of fab skills.

Nate builds a great product, no doubt about that! I have his trailing arms and trailing arm cross member and I think his front crossmember is a work of art. I was just thinking with the introduction of no limits rack and pinion kit that it might make it easier to notch or section a crossmember more than 1.5".

No conflict here.

I would check w/Rob & see what he thinks. There might be a 'max' amount even his set-up can accomodate before the bumpsteer issue returns despite the R&P (because of the units installed location). Obviously, guys w/advanced fab skills & equipment are @ an advantage & could still possibly tweak it to work .

Regardless, the oil pan depth still should be considered. I originally set mine up w/a sbc & verified fit/dimensions. I later swapped that x-member into another truck w/a bbc & the 6qt/9" deep pan (stock GM truck sump) was below the 'scrub-line' of the x-member. It required swapping to a 5qt 'car' pan to be flush w/the bottom of the x-member. A deep-sump/high-perf pan or greater than 1.5" of notch & the pan would be below the scrub-line.

[Scot_Douglas]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

If I was wasting peoples time, I wouldn't care about your pokes.

My suggestion is a legitimate concern/possibility. Since I'm trying to promote awareness of potential issues & to verifiy these types of possibilities before they make the commitment on a mod like this, I'll ask you to stop now.

Stop what?

Giving proof of what I did works and the pan doesn't hang below the crossmember. I think you're a little sensitive when you think someone is challenging your experience / smarts. That's not my intent. My intent is to share my experience sectioning my crossmember 2" and pointing out that I am NOT a fabrication expert, whiz, or even that skilled. I had a couple parts when I started out - just in case I goofed up, because it is a scary feeling to do something like this for the first time. I found out that with patience and a bunch of measuring, I could get by - and if can do this: ANYBODY can.
I'll continue to give my opinion based on my experience, and you continue to give yours. I don't want to come across contrary to your experience while I'm sharing mine.

How about this:
I sectioned 2" out of my 66 and wound up being okay. I see "2"-3" mentioned several times in this thread and will concede that if I would've gone any more than 2", my pan would've been below the crossmember.

If I was wasting peoples time, I wouldn't care about your condescending attitude.

My experience is legitimate and worked for me. Since I'm trying to promote awareness of potential success & to verifiy these types of modifications are possible if you think through it, I'll ask you to stop now.

[Scot_Douglas]

Originally Posted by Rochlow

My goal wasn't to start a conflict.. Just see if there was an alternative for the guy that had a bit of fab skills.

Nate builds a great product, no doubt about that! I have his trailing arms and trailing arm cross member and I think his front crossmember is a work of art. I was just thinking with the introduction of no limits rack and pinion kit that it might make it easier to notch or section a crossmember more than 1.5".
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Nah, no conflict, really.

Scoti doesn't want you doing this mod without thinking everything through and knowing what you're getting yourself into.
All I want to get across is that I have limited fab skills (started less than a year ago) and I was able to do it after I did plenty of research.

He's sitting on one of your shoulders giving advice based on experience, common sense and reality; I'm sitting on the other one saying "OMG! Do it! It would be so cool!".

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Scot_Douglas

Stop what?

Giving proof of what I did works and the pan doesn't hang below the crossmember. I think you're a little sensitive when you think someone is challenging your experience / smarts. That's not my intent. My intent is to share my experience sectioning my crossmember 2" and pointing out that I am NOT a fabrication expert, whiz, or even that skilled. I had a couple parts when I started out - just in case I goofed up, because it is a scary feeling to do something like this for the first time. I found out that with patience and a bunch of measuring, I could get by - and if can do this: ANYBODY can.
I'll continue to give my opinion based on my experience, and you continue to give yours. I don't want to come across contrary to your experience while I'm sharing mine.

How about this:
I sectioned 2" out of my 66 and wound up being okay. I see "2"-3" mentioned several times in this thread and will concede that if I would've gone any more than 2", my pan would've been below the crossmember.

If I was wasting peoples time, I wouldn't care about your condescending attitude.

My experience is legitimate and worked for me. Since I'm trying to promote awareness of potential success & to verifiy these types of modifications are possible if you think through it, I'll ask you to stop now.

My attitude is not condescending. I merely asked you to stop dismissing the potential concern I suggested.

I didn't state your methods won't work or aren't correct. Your pics prove the 2" notch can work w/your combination of parts. I stated the fact that there can be a scrub-line issue (as you also just agreed with). You originally interpeted what I said as meaning the dimension between the oil pan to x-member would be compromised:

Originally Posted by Scot_Douglas

While I agree Porterbuilt's dropmember would be easiest, Sectioning the crossmember DOESN'T change your crossmember-to-oilpan clearance. If you think about it, you leave the portion under the engine in the stock location and RAISE everything else around it. No change to motormounts or oilpan clearance....

Once I cleared that up, you came back w/the witty response:

I'll take my chances, thank you.

Since the info I shared is factual as I have experienced it & you agree it could possibly happen beyond 2" of sectioning, others should consider it when planning for this type of mod so there was no need to challenge it.

It's fine if you're prepared to take a chance & grab more parts to do it over. My intent was to only suggest people verify the dimensions of their parts before possibly cutting it up more than their combo (not yours) can allow.

[N2TRUX]

Scot_Douglas- Scoti is simply trying to warn those that might attempt the same modifications of the pitfalls they might encounter. The senior members here only promote suspension mods that do not have potential for failure, or safety concerns.

Obviously you have put a plan in motion and been effective in achieving the results you were after. Your input on what you have accomplished is appreciated here. Your sarcasm is not.

[love my 72]

Originally Posted by jmedero

ok see if you can follow me here. I have a 1.5 sec xmember that I am thinking of using. What if you take the upper and lower control arms and move the ball joint forward an inch? This would fix this and also move the wheels up and inch. You might have to grind a little on the xmember to clear but I dont think it would be that much.
What do you guys think?
As far as mounting the rack I wonder if there is a front steer unit that works like the rear steer on the Pontiac sunfire. It can be mounted closer to the driver side of the frame. This makes routing shaft and clearance issues down to a minimum. Any feed back?

Sounds like waaaaaaayyyyyy too much work in relation to the cost of the dropmember. no need to reinvent the wheel! If you buy the dm from nate you you could use the time you would have spent doing all this doing some other fab work that would yield you more cash than the cost of the dropmember investment.......

work smarter, not harder! just my opinion

[Scot_Douglas]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Once I cleared that up, you came back w/the witty response:


Since the info I shared is factual as I have experienced it & you agree it could possibly happen beyond 2" of sectioning, others should consider it when planning for this type of mod so there was no need to challenge it.

It's fine if you're prepared to take a chance & grab more parts to do it over. My intent was to only suggest people verify the dimensions of their parts before possibly cutting it up more than their combo (not yours) can allow.

I think you missed the part where I said:

Scoti doesn't want you doing this mod without thinking everything through and knowing what you're getting yourself into.
All I want to get across is that I have limited fab skills (started less than a year ago) and I was able to do it after I did plenty of research.

You're also discounting your quote:

If you section the x-member too much, the oil pan sump WILL be hanging below the x-member & could be the 1st thing that will come in contact w/the ground depending on the depth of the sump.

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Scot_Douglas- Scoti is simply trying to warn those that might attempt the same modifications of the pitfalls they might encounter. The senior members here only promote suspension mods that do not have potential for failure, or safety concerns.

Obviously you have put a plan in motion and been effective in achieving the results you were after. Your input on what you have accomplished is appreciated here. Your sarcasm is not.

I have stated and restated that I understand the message Scoti is trying to get through to the members here.


And now I will concede that the whole time Scoti was stating a RANGE of crossmember sectioning, that I conveniently missed because I saw the 2" in the 2"-3" Also that I was thinking when I cut 2" out of mine, I didn't see a way to go any further without a lot of work (relative, that is ).

BTW, I don't have a sarcasm bit to turn off, it's always there. (For better or worse) But with that in mind - I apologize for my misunderstanding Scoti's considerations and dragging drama into the thread.

This apology goes first and foremost to Darron (roofingbloke) for poopin' in his thread, then Scoti, of course and then to the rest of the forum.

[Scot_Douglas]

Originally Posted by love my 72

Sounds like waaaaaaayyyyyy too much work in relation to the cost of the dropmember. no need to reinvent the wheel! If you buy the dm from nate you you could use the time you would have spent doing all this doing some other fab work that would yield you more cash than the cost of the dropmember investment.......

work smarter, not harder! just my opinion

I would love me a porterbuilt dropmember! I learned about PB's site AND his beautiful creations by reading build threads like Scoti's - I also learned that his parts (with awesome prices for what you get).

HOWEVER

My wife, who at the moment considers a $10,000 hot tub on sale for $8,500 a good deal, cannot see the value of any part going to the truck that doesn't fix what's broken. Since I had a spare crossmember, I thought I'd give it a try - along with reading some of the posts on here about doing it.

Someday, I'll use some correctly built parts that go together nice and don't end up taking lots of trial & error. I need your help though - my wife said I could do it when pigs fly - so if anyone can get some photographic evidence...I'd be much obliged!

[love my 72]

Originally Posted by Scot_Douglas

I would love me a porterbuilt dropmember! I learned about PB's site AND his beautiful creations by reading build threads like Scoti's - I also learned that his parts (with awesome prices for what you get).

HOWEVER

My wife, who at the moment considers a $10,000 hot tub on sale for $8,500 a good deal, cannot see the value of any part going to the truck that doesn't fix what's broken. Since I had a spare crossmember, I thought I'd give it a try - along with reading some of the posts on here about doing it.

Someday, I'll use some correctly built parts that go together nice and don't end up taking lots of trial & error. I need your help though - my wife said I could do it when pigs fly - so if anyone can get some photographic evidence...I'd be much obliged!

I hear ya on that ma brotha! as always keeping the misses happy is job 1! best of luck with that! as far as the evidence...... did you know we have a great photo shop department?????

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by Rochlow

For instance.. Let's say I "notch" the crossmember 2-3" under the frame rails. Then, use no-limits bolt in rack and pinion.

I know the frame will need to be notched for the rack, the spindles reemed out for the tie rods and the motor mount shorten or dropped..

That's the route I was looking at. Also I was think of moving the whole crossmember forward 1" to center the wheels in the wheel wells..

Not sure if this is an option..

I had exactly this same thought. No Limit's 'Joe Touring' truck has a sectioned crossmember and the rack kit, so it's a proven combo. Just don't look to save much money over a DM by the time you factor in the cost of the rack kit and modular spindles to decrease track width. Still, it's a viable option if you don't want bags or coilovers.

Originally Posted by SCOTI

...I would check w/Rob & see what he thinks. There might be a 'max' amount even his set-up can accomodate before the bumpsteer issue returns despite the R&P (because of the units installed location)...

Should be a non-issue since the rack moves with the crossmember. Rob quoted, I think, 2" before the tie-rods would contact the frame. Even still, you could notch, ala dropmember, but would likely be limited by oil pan clearance.
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[Rochlow]

I spoke with rob about the above question and he advised that I should only notch the crossmember 1.5 inches or it could open up a can of worms. However, I'm confused.. Because as gringoloco said the steering is moving up with the crossmember. Therefore I forsee that eliminating the common issues when using the factory steering box.

That being said I know that the oil pan becomes an issue (however I still havent taken a measurement to find out truly if it will be).

No comes the cost.. $750 plus shipping for No Limits r&p kit with the possibility of a few extra for a spare crossmember.. And your talking about a grand without labor.

Then there is porterbuilt's cross member which is roughly $1200 shipped to your door, rack and pinion for 300-350 shipped, and another 150-200 for the steering shaft. So that's about $1700. (please don't take this as me knocking any of Nate's products. They are truly awesome! However, I'm just trying to think of a safe way to get the same result for a little less coin)
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[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by Rochlow

I spoke with rob about the above question and he advised that I should only notch the crossmember 1.5 inches or it could open up a can of worms. However, I'm confused.. Because as gringoloco said the steering is moving up with the crossmember. Therefore I forsee that eliminating the common issues when using the factory steering box.

That being said I know that the oil pan becomes an issue (however I still havent taken a measurement to find out truly if it will be).

No comes the cost.. $750 plus shipping for No Limits r&p kit with the possibility of a few extra for a spare crossmember.. And your talking about a grand without labor.

Then there is porterbuilt's cross member which is roughly $1200 shipped to your door, 300-350 shipped, and another 150-200 for the steering shaft. So that's about $1700. (please don't take this as me knocking any of Nate's products. They are truly awesome! However, I'm just trying to think of a safe way to get the same result for a little less coin)
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You can scrounge and find deals on the DM stuff. Racks can be had for ~$100 at the LAPS, steering parts about the same. I've seen Dropmembers sell for ~$800; as a matter of fact, there's one on the parts board now.

I would ask Rob what specifically is the issue with going more than 1.5". Also, be aware that with the standard 'pancake' method, you will lose the rack mounting points, so your crossmember cuts will have to take that into consideration. I think if the R&P kit was around $5-600 this would be a no-brainer. As it stands, it's too close to call...

[jmedero]

My tattoo artist has a sign on her wall.
Good
Fast
Cheap
Pick two.
It all depends on what your after and how much you want to work and spend. Find an avenue that your comfortable with and go with it. My burb has a rear DM, front still to be determined. Lol
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[bondo510]

I have about 12 hours into this plus about $20.00 and that includes the spraycan!

[Scot_Douglas]

That looks great!

[63_c10_shorty]

Quick question, I've got a 63 C10, 250ci w/ 4spd its bagged, cupped control arms, 2.5 drop spindles, notched and blocked in the rear. Just got done sectioning a spare crossmember. Right now when I'm aired out my front crossmember/control arms are on the ground. What I'm having an issue with is the trans and trans crossmember are about 1/2" off the ground. What do I need to do or what steps do I need to take to fix this issue.

[bbbc10]

Raise motor and trans or get a trans crossmember