I think my mechanic burned me please advise - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

samlsn · 05-13-2016, 05:54 PM

Hi guys, I recently decided to swap out my old single pattern "962" cam for a comp xe-262. I thought I'd do it myself but thought better at the last minute and hired a local machine shop instead. A week later, when I pay the 2,600 bucks and start to drive home, I don't get half way before the oil pressure drops to just above the zero mark and at the same time the temp gauge pegs high so I pull the somofa***** off the road and call the tow truck.
My question to smarter, cooler heads than mine is weather they should take responsibility? They are not accepting any part of it. I know there's some important details missing like the condition of the motor before this event, blah blah, it had under 20,000 on a fresh rebuild but the old cam had two wiped lobes.
Basically, isn't there a hundred things they could have gotten wrong that could cause this?

**mongocanfly** · 05-13-2016, 06:00 PM

1st thing I see wrong is paying $2600 for a cam swap...holy crap...2nd without tearing into the engine there's no telling what other problems you have..3rd if you had 2 wiped out cam lobes you may have had other issues before the cam swap..

samlsn · 05-13-2016, 06:03 PM

They replaced the valve guides after finding they had too much play so it wasn't all for a cam. Also got a starter and other unrelated stuff

crazy longhorn · 05-13-2016, 06:08 PM

Sorry dog....the wiped lobes tell the story? You already had metal in the oil? No way would I guarantee that job (they should have stated that up front), but you knew of the problem ? Longhorn

samlsn · 05-13-2016, 06:10 PM

It was running fine, I drove it there

BossHogg69 · 05-13-2016, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy longhorn

Sorry dog....the wiped lobes tell the story? You already had metal in the oil? No way would I guarantee that job (they should have stated that up front), but you knew of the problem ? Longhorn

x2 - two lobes gone and all that metal went through the engine. No way to get it all out for sure without pulling it completely apart. Not saying they didn't do anything wrong, but it's going to be next to impossible to get them to accept responsibility if this is actually the case. I really can't believe they agreed to do the work and NOT pull it apart.

What's the rest of the story - starting with the original cam going flat?

cableguy0 · 05-13-2016, 06:56 PM

Should have been an engine rebuild not a cam swap/. Your old cam killed the engine. Did they advise you that its a stupid idea to ignore the pile of metal that was spewed through the engine and just continue with the cam swap? As soon as that cam came out with wiped lobes they should have stopped and called you to get the go ahead to yank the engine and rebuild. The metal dumped by your old cam wrecked the bearings. You not knowing there was an issue means the metal was likely in the engine for a long period of time destroying bearings and machined surfaces. Basically they should have refused to continue work without doing it properly but ultimately your last cam is probably responsible for the current issue.

storm9c1 · 05-13-2016, 07:54 PM

Wish I had better news, but I agree with everyone else. Wiped lobes means a teardown. Block needs flushed. For the money you paid, they should have called that out. So if anything, I'd bring that up with them on that (I'd say they are the experts and you are just learning, might make them feel better rather than you sounding like a know-it-all). Any shop worth a darn should stand behind their work, at the very least, they should have advised you properly when you went in with a wiped cam. So they didn't do any test drives? What about break-in? Did they at least do that? You didn't say, but I assume it's flat tappet because roller cams rarely go flat.

**Clyde65** · 05-13-2016, 09:18 PM

Imo, they own it! Since they went as far as they did without refusing to do the job(reputable shops would not touch unless rebuild) or having you sign away the responsibility, basically insisting they do what you want and YOU take the responsibility, then imo they own it. By doing the cam and other engine work they are saying everything else is acceptable. Just my .02.

truckster · 05-13-2016, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samlsn

It was running fine, I drove it there

No offense intended, you may have driven it there but it wasn't running fine if it had two wiped lobes.

The shop should have refused the job. They should have told you it was a bad idea and the engine needed to be torn down. If they didn't, you may have a case for claiming negligence on their part. For $2600 you should have had a rebuild.

nonstop · 05-14-2016, 01:04 AM

A few things stick out to me - 20000 miles on a complete rebuild, and it needs new valve guides? Two flat lobes? Did they show you the old cam? I find it quite coincidental that you bring it in for a new cam and just by chance the old one has two bad lobes! Agreed with what was said above about the shop needing to take responsibility after agreeing to do the work and not notifying you.

68gmsee · 05-14-2016, 09:54 AM

I don't completely agree with the "all your fault" comments. For $2600 the engine should have been not only completely gone over but guaranteed for life! (well not quite).

Irregardless of previous condition, for that amount of money that engine should have been like a new one. And from what I understand, it overheated and didn't even make it home after you picked it up.

Something's not right or I'm not understanding the whole story.

GM-power · 05-14-2016, 03:04 PM

Whew that is steep, did you get a documented receipt? It's gonna have to be torn down. Since your not experienced, take it a reputable shop (alittle more $$) have them inspect the motor and find the failure. Of what they did wrong or what they didn't install etc.. get a written estimate and take it to the other shop along with pictures and tell them what's going on. If they don't want to help you out then you'll have to figure out any further action to take. Unless the paper (if they gave you any) Clearly state they are not liable for it once it leaves.

Eddie H. · 05-14-2016, 03:49 PM

I'm still trying to figure out the $2600 for a cam change? A new crate engine is $1500 plus
8 hours labor to install it. With new belts, hoses, fluids, and misc you would still be in the $2500-$2600 range. As soon as they found the wiped cam lobes, they should have stopped and offered you the options of rebuilding or replacing the engine.

**truckdude239** · 05-14-2016, 09:28 PM

Wow 2600 buxs i would have never paided that heres a 383 stoker for like 3400 buxs

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...=&pgGrp=search

samlsn · 05-14-2016, 10:27 PM

That's a good point about the comparison in price to a new crate motor, damn. They did break in the cam, although they couldn't get it to turn over right away. Lot's of vrrr vrrrr vrrrr. And get this: I was there waiting to take it home when they broke in the cam, no shop owner in sight, and two days later after it tanked and I towed it back, the owner called me to tell me the bad news about them not taking any responsibility, and lied to me saying he was there when they fired it up to break in the cam and said it turned right over and I let him finish his point and reached through the phone to slap him for lying and he couldn't finish the conversation soon enough. Started mumbling and stuff.

truckster · 05-14-2016, 11:22 PM

To answer your original question, yes, your mechanic burned you.

At this point you might want to consider a crate engine. But don't have the same shop install it.

**Captainfab** · 05-14-2016, 11:45 PM

I don't know what the laws are in Ca, but I would look into taking them to small claims court. Charging $2600 for what they did is outrageous. Especially with what the end result is. As was already stated, you should have had a complete new crate engine installed with a warranty for that price.

**slepysal** · 05-15-2016, 01:37 AM

Get a hold of The California BAR and file a complaint.

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/

Get a hold of the better business bureau
I would talk to the owner and let him know that you will get a lawyer.

'63GENIII · 05-15-2016, 02:30 AM

Just had all of my machine work on a 454 done by a reputable shop up in Burlingame for 1400 including all bearings, rings, gaskets and nice valve job. All good name parts. Cam was 1200. 2600 for a complete new engine if I assemble. If I wanted it assembled add another 300. Yes, I hate to say it but you were taken. Guys like the one you just dealt with are what made me find a good machine shop and learn how to build my own engines 30 years ago. Tuition paid. Got tired of getting burned. In that time, Ive only found 2 machinists that are honest, reasonable and really good at what they do. I do pay for it but I also never have problems with their work.

If you really had a wiped cam (you saw it for yourself and it not what your mechanic told you) theres almost no chance that the lower end will survive. Either find a roller crate with a warranty or a good machine shop. Either way, you're not running what you have in there now whether you try to sue or not.

toolboxchev · 05-15-2016, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossHogg69

x2 - two lobes gone and all that metal went through the engine. No way to get it all out for sure without pulling it completely apart. Not saying they didn't do anything wrong, but it's going to be next to impossible to get them to accept responsibility if this is actually the case. I really can't believe they agreed to do the work and NOT pull it apart.

What's the rest of the story - starting with the original cam going flat?

1st question, have you personally seen the cam with the wiped lobes? Any reputable engine builder or qualified mechanic would have taken steps to alleviate problems.

Unless he is just a thief and like screwing with people using the law and a lawyer to hide behind.

toolboxchev · 05-15-2016, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie H.

I'm still trying to figure out the $2600 for a cam change? A new crate engine is $1500 plus
8 hours labor to install it. With new belts, hoses, fluids, and misc you would still be in the $2500-$2600 range. As soon as they found the wiped cam lobes, they should have stopped and offered you the options of rebuilding or replacing the engine.

This X2

samlsn · 05-15-2016, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

1st question, have you personally seen the cam with the wiped lobes? Any reputable engine builder or qualified mechanic would have taken steps to alleviate problems.

He put the old cam and lifters in the bed of my truck, the intake lobe on one cylinder and exhaust on another ( I think #'s 7&8, all the way back of cam before dist. gear) were wiped and the lifters notched out as though they had stopped spinning

chevybuldr · 05-16-2016, 12:03 AM

If you have already tried to work with him and you have caught him lying then you need to proceed to the next step. I would find another shop that is willing to put int the time to evaluate what the issue is. If they broke it in while you were waiting then they are not a good shop. That means they did not test drive it or check any of the vitals. If he is not being very cooperative with you to give back your money. Its time to ball the BAR Bureau of Automotive Repair. They will get stuff done. 2600 is not that out of hand for a bay area charge. People don't understand we live in one of the most expensive areas around. Even if you bought a crate motor you still have the expense to put it in. At 100.00 an hour on the average here, plus new parts.

Your on the right step I think you got the wrong shop. Move onto wanting your money back from them. Make sure you document everything.

toolboxchev · 05-16-2016, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samlsn

He put the old cam and lifters in the bed of my truck, the intake lobe on one cylinder and exhaust on another ( I think #'s 7&8, all the way back of cam before dist. gear) were wiped and the lifters notched out as though they had stopped spinning

I just did a complete top end on mine over 4 years ago. A couple of the lobes were wiped, and when we pulled the lifters a few (?) had been dished. The motor was pulled and completely pulled apart. I hold no certification in engine repair and have done a couple of head replacements on vehicles.

50 K going strong, Now I had enough common sense to pull it apart and clean it, and most important in my book, replace the cam bearings which was a step up in difficultly.

I don't see how they could warranty their work with the rest of the motor being used. They will use that as a tool to defeat a lawsuit. I have a friend who works at a shop selling and installing tires had his intake replaced by the mechanic and now his lifters tick on a cold morning. He is all bent on a 200k motor. He works there.

The best vindication you will receive is when you have a hopped up motor back in there working.

Sounds to me the mechanic could very well end up a schlock.

GET THE PROOF AND EXPERT TESTIMONY!

05-13-2016, 05:54 PM	#1
samlsn Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 40	I think my mechanic burned me please advise Hi guys, I recently decided to swap out my old single pattern "962" cam for a comp xe-262. I thought I'd do it myself but thought better at the last minute and hired a local machine shop instead. A week later, when I pay the 2,600 bucks and start to drive home, I don't get half way before the oil pressure drops to just above the zero mark and at the same time the temp gauge pegs high so I pull the somofa***** off the road and call the tow truck. My question to smarter, cooler heads than mine is weather they should take responsibility? They are not accepting any part of it. I know there's some important details missing like the condition of the motor before this event, blah blah, it had under 20,000 on a fresh rebuild but the old cam had two wiped lobes. Basically, isn't there a hundred things they could have gotten wrong that could cause this? __________________ Sam 1970 GMC Long Bed/ Small Block 350

05-13-2016, 06:00 PM	#2
mongocanfly Post Whore Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alabama Posts: 14,688	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise 1st thing I see wrong is paying $2600 for a cam swap...holy crap...2nd without tearing into the engine there's no telling what other problems you have..3rd if you had 2 wiped out cam lobes you may have had other issues before the cam swap..

05-13-2016, 06:03 PM	#3
samlsn Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 40	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise They replaced the valve guides after finding they had too much play so it wasn't all for a cam. Also got a starter and other unrelated stuff __________________ Sam 1970 GMC Long Bed/ Small Block 350

05-13-2016, 06:08 PM	#4
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,402	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Sorry dog....the wiped lobes tell the story? You already had metal in the oil? No way would I guarantee that job (they should have stated that up front), but you knew of the problem ? Longhorn __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

05-13-2016, 06:10 PM	#5
samlsn Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 40	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise It was running fine, I drove it there __________________ Sam 1970 GMC Long Bed/ Small Block 350

05-13-2016, 06:56 PM	#7
cableguy0 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Delta,Pa Posts: 14,948	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Should have been an engine rebuild not a cam swap/. Your old cam killed the engine. Did they advise you that its a stupid idea to ignore the pile of metal that was spewed through the engine and just continue with the cam swap? As soon as that cam came out with wiped lobes they should have stopped and called you to get the go ahead to yank the engine and rebuild. The metal dumped by your old cam wrecked the bearings. You not knowing there was an issue means the metal was likely in the engine for a long period of time destroying bearings and machined surfaces. Basically they should have refused to continue work without doing it properly but ultimately your last cam is probably responsible for the current issue. __________________ Owner of North Point Car Care in Dundalk Md. We specialize in custom exhaust on both modern and classic vehicles. We are a full service auto shop from classics to modern vehicles. Feel free to contact me with questions. I will give a 10% discount to any board member.

05-13-2016, 07:54 PM	#8
storm9c1 * That's interesting * Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2,772	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Wish I had better news, but I agree with everyone else. Wiped lobes means a teardown. Block needs flushed. For the money you paid, they should have called that out. So if anything, I'd bring that up with them on that (I'd say they are the experts and you are just learning, might make them feel better rather than you sounding like a know-it-all). Any shop worth a darn should stand behind their work, at the very least, they should have advised you properly when you went in with a wiped cam. So they didn't do any test drives? What about break-in? Did they at least do that? You didn't say, but I assume it's flat tappet because roller cams rarely go flat. __________________ Tom Chevy by day... 1969 Chevy C30 Rollback Tow Truck -- 383 stroker, 4L80E 2011 Chevy Caprice PPV 9C3 6.0L 1995 Chevy Caprice 9C1 1994 Chevy Caprice 9C1 #3 1995 Chevy Caprice Wagon #2 1995 Chevy Impala SS Mopar by night... 1969 Dodge Charger 1972 Chrysler Newport 2dr Hardtop (27K miles) Plus others... Last edited by storm9c1; 05-13-2016 at 08:00 PM.

05-13-2016, 09:18 PM	#9
Clyde65 1965 Chevy C10, 2005 4.8L/4l60 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: DFW Texas Posts: 8,549	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Imo, they own it! Since they went as far as they did without refusing to do the job(reputable shops would not touch unless rebuild) or having you sign away the responsibility, basically insisting they do what you want and YOU take the responsibility, then imo they own it. By doing the cam and other engine work they are saying everything else is acceptable. Just my .02. __________________ Clyde65 Rebuild of Clyde http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...84#post8338184 69 Aristocrat Lo Liner build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...84#post7561684 *support our troops!*

05-14-2016, 01:04 AM	#11
nonstop Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Northern California Posts: 422	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise A few things stick out to me - 20000 miles on a complete rebuild, and it needs new valve guides? Two flat lobes? Did they show you the old cam? I find it quite coincidental that you bring it in for a new cam and just by chance the old one has two bad lobes! Agreed with what was said above about the shop needing to take responsibility after agreeing to do the work and not notifying you.

05-14-2016, 09:54 AM	#12
68gmsee Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Centrally located between Houston, Austin and Waco. BCS area. Posts: 7,947	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise I don't completely agree with the "all your fault" comments. For $2600 the engine should have been not only completely gone over but guaranteed for life! (well not quite). Irregardless of previous condition, for that amount of money that engine should have been like a new one. And from what I understand, it overheated and didn't even make it home after you picked it up. Something's not right or I'm not understanding the whole story. __________________ 68 GMC 250/3 speed Saginaw p/b p/s 69 Chevy 350/350 currently in pieces still lookin for a cab 06 Trailblazer I just want a vehicle that I can work on, that won't talk to me, leave error msgs or keep track of how I drive...

05-14-2016, 03:04 PM	#13
GM-power Registered User Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 770	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Whew that is steep, did you get a documented receipt? It's gonna have to be torn down. Since your not experienced, take it a reputable shop (alittle more $$) have them inspect the motor and find the failure. Of what they did wrong or what they didn't install etc.. get a written estimate and take it to the other shop along with pictures and tell them what's going on. If they don't want to help you out then you'll have to figure out any further action to take. Unless the paper (if they gave you any) Clearly state they are not liable for it once it leaves. __________________ 1979 Sierra Classic Heavy-half 1996 Silverado x-cab "the daily"

05-14-2016, 03:49 PM	#14
Eddie H. Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Paradise TX USA Posts: 1,200	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise I'm still trying to figure out the $2600 for a cam change? A new crate engine is $1500 plus 8 hours labor to install it. With new belts, hoses, fluids, and misc you would still be in the $2500-$2600 range. As soon as they found the wiped cam lobes, they should have stopped and offered you the options of rebuilding or replacing the engine. __________________ "Negative people always seem to have a problem for every solution"

05-14-2016, 09:28 PM	#15
truckdude239 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lewisville, Nc Posts: 10,238	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Wow 2600 buxs i would have never paided that heres a 383 stoker for like 3400 buxs http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...=&pgGrp=search __________________ David fuller Ase Certified Mechanic Click here to help support our board!! 1971 Chevy c-10 under going a 4.8l LSx swap Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421305 2007 Honda Accord my daily 145kmiles 2002 Honda Accord 4 door With 330k(sisters car) 2005 toyota Avalon 228k( brothers car) 2002 Sububran 5.3 245k 2000 Tahoe 5.3l 378 General manager for Marco's Carwash & lube

05-14-2016, 10:27 PM	#16
samlsn Registered User Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 40	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise That's a good point about the comparison in price to a new crate motor, damn. They did break in the cam, although they couldn't get it to turn over right away. Lot's of vrrr vrrrr vrrrr. And get this: I was there waiting to take it home when they broke in the cam, no shop owner in sight, and two days later after it tanked and I towed it back, the owner called me to tell me the bad news about them not taking any responsibility, and lied to me saying he was there when they fired it up to break in the cam and said it turned right over and I let him finish his point and reached through the phone to slap him for lying and he couldn't finish the conversation soon enough. Started mumbling and stuff. __________________ Sam 1970 GMC Long Bed/ Small Block 350

05-14-2016, 11:22 PM	#17
truckster Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 8,021	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise To answer your original question, yes, your mechanic burned you. At this point you might want to consider a crate engine. But don't have the same shop install it.



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05-14-2016, 11:45 PM	#18
Captainfab 60-66 Nut Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Posts: 23,254	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise I don't know what the laws are in Ca, but I would look into taking them to small claims court. Charging $2600 for what they did is outrageous. Especially with what the end result is. As was already stated, you should have had a complete new crate engine installed with a warranty for that price. __________________ Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE

05-15-2016, 01:37 AM	#19
slepysal Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Jose NOR*CAL Posts: 3,080	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Get a hold of The California BAR and file a complaint. http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/ Get a hold of the better business bureau I would talk to the owner and let him know that you will get a lawyer. __________________ 1960 Apache long bed fleet L6 250 Clifford intake 2 bbl carb. Langdon cast headers with dual exhaust and bellflower tips. T-5 5 speed, power steering and power disc brakes. "Over, Around or through it... "

05-15-2016, 02:30 AM	#20
'63GENIII Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Carlos, Ca. Posts: 3,048	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise Just had all of my machine work on a 454 done by a reputable shop up in Burlingame for 1400 including all bearings, rings, gaskets and nice valve job. All good name parts. Cam was 1200. 2600 for a complete new engine if I assemble. If I wanted it assembled add another 300. Yes, I hate to say it but you were taken. Guys like the one you just dealt with are what made me find a good machine shop and learn how to build my own engines 30 years ago. Tuition paid. Got tired of getting burned. In that time, Ive only found 2 machinists that are honest, reasonable and really good at what they do. I do pay for it but I also never have problems with their work. If you really had a wiped cam (you saw it for yourself and it not what your mechanic told you) theres almost no chance that the lower end will survive. Either find a roller crate with a warranty or a good machine shop. Either way, you're not running what you have in there now whether you try to sue or not. __________________ Chris '63 k15 long step Vortec 7.4 - L29 Blackbear tune, Five 0 Motorsports injectors, Chris Straub Cam, NV4500, divorced 205 52" front and 63" rear spring swap D44 / 14bff - disc axles Milemarker 9K and 10.5K hydraulic winches 63" & B52 Spring Install http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ng+swap+thread NV4500 Reverse Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=reverse+build L29 - 7.4 Vortec Build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...&highlight=L29

05-16-2016, 12:03 AM	#24
chevybuldr Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Livermore ca Posts: 699	Re: I think my mechanic burned me please advise If you have already tried to work with him and you have caught him lying then you need to proceed to the next step. I would find another shop that is willing to put int the time to evaluate what the issue is. If they broke it in while you were waiting then they are not a good shop. That means they did not test drive it or check any of the vitals. If he is not being very cooperative with you to give back your money. Its time to ball the BAR Bureau of Automotive Repair. They will get stuff done. 2600 is not that out of hand for a bay area charge. People don't understand we live in one of the most expensive areas around. Even if you bought a crate motor you still have the expense to put it in. At 100.00 an hour on the average here, plus new parts. Your on the right step I think you got the wrong shop. Move onto wanting your money back from them. Make sure you document everything.

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