muncie swap

[easmithers]

Does any one have any good pics. of a small block 350 and a muncie 4sp in a
frame ? I am swapping out th350 and am not shure of what bellhousing and clutch bell crank location, I have 2 bellhousings to pick from, pivot on block or pivot on bellhosing.
A also using th350 crossmember at rear of 4sp. Just mocking up before i put cab back on frame. thanks

[TeamEstep]

Subbed.
I have a Super T-10 that I plan to put in my '71 and should be a similar install.

[old Chevy guy]

No experience on this but unless the motor would be in a different position than with a standard 4 speed I'm going with ball on engine. Hmmm I was thinking /assuming you were talking a Muncie 4 speed from a car. Are you talking car unit or 465 Muncie truck 4 speed? That actually mounts on a bracket on the block. Which with the motor in that position I still maintain is where that ball would be.

[old Chevy guy]

My motor SB350 is in the foward position with SM465. If your truck has a th350 with a short tail and engine foward this setup should work,same crossmember and rear mount,and driveshaft. With a Muncie from a car that is.

[easmithers]

Yes muncie m20 from a car, and I just found the block braket like you have in pic.
I think it lines up with holes in frame for outside mount, will try this next.
any other info ?? thanks.

[special-K]

They look and fit just like a 3spd. Direct swap, no problemo. I like to use the car bellhousing and automatic mount, because they have a provision for rear mount. But you can go either way. The bell crank has nothing to do with which transmission. All bell housings are in the same place, just like the clutch, so whatever works for your chassis/engine works with any manual transmission.

[old Chevy guy]

I went back and forth from th350 to Muncie a few times in my camaro it's an easy swap as long as the 350 is a short tail. And like Special K said either bell will work,but you want a big block bell if you go with the aluminum car type bell. It's also the same as a newer 73 and up from a pickup or Chevy van. I say this because if you use a small block bell from a nova or camaro or something similar you can't use an 11 inch. Clutch. The bolt patern is the same on both but big block the bell is bigger around the flywheel. I'll post a few pictures later so you and anybody else can see. You definitely want the big clutch. I set my Camaro up like that SB 350 Bb bell 11 inch clutch and pressure plate M20 Muncie . Used to chew up clutch disks with a 10" now chews tires instead.

[old Chevy guy]

Here's a few pictures ,one on left is small block v8 or also for i6. Right one big block v 8 or any pickup or van newer than 73 with manual clutch.

[old Chevy guy]

Couple more

[midniteblues]

The the hole in the bell where the bearing retainer seats can be different sizes on the bigger bells.

I haven't seen any of the smaller bells with the bigger hole. I'm not sure if any were made that way.

I think the two sized holes are 4 7/8"(most car trans)
and 5 1/8".(most truck trans).

So it's fairly hard too eyeball the difference between the two with out a tape measure or the two bells side by side.

They do make adapter rings for the bigger holes.
I've also swapped bearing retainers in the past to get the correct size fit of the trans in the bell.

Then finding a Good fitting shifter handle in the truck with a bench can be fun.

And if your gonna use headers finding a set that doesn't hang super low and works with the z bar/bell crank.

[easmithers]

thanks for the info .

[peeblesj]

I put a Saginaw 4 speed in my truck last summer. I had a sm465 originally. I used the bell housing from the sm465 (original to the truck) that has the bee housing mounted pivot. worked great. I also used the manual trans mount that connects to the bell housing. Held up very well.

[Big Block]

Getting ready to take the 350 turbo out of my 2 wheel drive Jimmy and convert it back to the original manual transmission. Going to go with a Muncie 4 speed myself. Previous owner converted to auto. Good information. Should be helpful.

[easmithers]

good info,,, any pics. of seat and shifter locatins , and trans hump mods for shifter boot. T have an old long arm shifter from 55-57 chev car , was told to try it ??

[rusty71]

Originally Posted by peeblesj

I put a Saginaw 4 speed in my truck last summer. I had a sm465 originally. I used the bell housing from the sm465 (original to the truck) that has the bee housing mounted pivot. worked great. I also used the manual trans mount that connects to the bell housing. Held up very well.

What kind of ahifter are you running? I swapped a Saginaw 4 speed into my truck and the stick works but isn't tall enough to suite me, since i'm running a late model bench seat, it literally just clears the top of the seat.

[Grumpy old man]

If I remember correctly the 67 bellhousing with cross member mounts will work better with the car Muncie and give you 5 mounting points considering 2 engine, 2 bellhousing and adding a tailshaft mount , bolting up a car Muncie to the larger hole bellhousing can crack the mounting ears off the trans from less support .

[midniteblues]

G.o.m is right.
It can break the ears or crack the bell if the correct sized hole isn't used also it can wear out the pilot bearing/bushing quickly.

Also can cause a lot of run out in the clutch disc witch in turn will wear out everything quick.

G.o.m is also correct about the 67(and earlier) bell having the smaller hole.

It's not advised too use a bell mounted too the bell crossmember and a tail shaft mounted crossmember together. It's too ridged and may break something.

Some 4spds use a shifter body mounting plate.
Some of these can be modded to move the shifter slightly forward too give a lil' more seat clearance.
But with a muncie reverse is in the tailshaft so this may not work.

I would certainly try too use that shift handle seems too be the way too go.

Floor mods are pretty much a hole cut into the side of the hump. You could buy or make a small box too keep a flat spot for the shift boot but you gotta decide what interior flooring your gonna use and mod it too fit your "box".
No high hump is nessacary.

[easmithers]

thanks for the info, more always helps .

[SIXTY9]

I have used this HURST shifter in my 69 C/10 with a stock seat, a bench seat out of 89 Silverado and bucket seats from a 66 Chevelle. The only part number on it is 4331. forgot to add the Muncie is out of a 70 Nova with a 350.

[easmithers]

thanks again for info,
I saw one post that said he used 3:73 gears , any other , how about 3:55 {aprox}
want a good freeway gear ?

[SIXTY9]

Yes I also run 3:73's, a 3:55 would do better on freeway.

[easmithers]

thanks again, when i get running i can see a rear end rebuild and maybe a gear swap.

[54belair]

Check out my build thread----there are some pics showing engine and drive train without body. (350--4 spd).