Bagged woes

[59chev]

Following..

Alot of us are intregued by this manual - automatic leveling option.

As I understand it, this would only work with the height control valves that have an integrated dump valve. When the dump valve is activated, it dumps the air in the bags and closes the intake valve at the same time. When the dump valve is closed, the height control valve returns to normal mode and re-inflates the bags until the truck comes back up to ride height.

[47 Fasttoys]

Alright I'll through my 2 cents in here. Why use solenoids at all? There are manual valve blocks out there now that are built just for automotive air ride systems. No electrical connections except for the lights on the gauges. 1 air input port, 1 exhaust port, 4 output ports and 4 gauge ports. 1 hose to each bag, 1 to each gauge port, 1 hose from air tank. I use the Little Larry's 4 play and am very happy with it. As far as speed is concerned all the valves are variable flow so the more you push the faster you go. With solenoids you have 2 conditions; open or closed, if you want to adjust speed you also need to install an adjustable flow control, set it and that's the speed you have. With variable manual valves you can creep or slam its up to your mood. Second picture is air tank with check valve, quick disconnect. It also has a water separator and engine driven compressor. The lights and switchs are for other functions.
Rob

[e015475]

I took a stab at drawing a schematic of what the OP described. Would appreciate any feedback from the OP as to its correctness-


When there's air pressure supplied from the tank to the pilot air port on the height control valve, the height control valve will function to regulate the height of the airbag (the red line on the schematic is the pilot/dump air controlled by the TW-1 valve)

If the pilot air is removed, the height control valve dumps the air out of the airbag.

Is this correct?

[e015475]

47 Fast Toys

I like the Little Larry approach too.

But what I'm trying to avoid is to have to frinkle with the air pressure all the time to keep the stance of the truck where I want it.

The OPs description of the height control valve wouldn't have any solenoids either, and would be a 'set it and forget it' system, with the option to dump the airbags with the TW1.

But with the OPs system, the only way you can change ride height is to adjust the linkage to the height valves, which is ok with me. Once i get it set to a height I like, I'd likely just leave it there.

[47 Fasttoys]

Sounds like a good system. I do adjust mine a little but I also load my truck on a regular basis as I pull a camper or boat and load all kinds of junk on the back so in my case I need the ability to adjust. My only question would be with the ride height dump valves do you end up with alot of compressor cycling because the valves are making regular adjustments? by this I mean what happens when you go into a long sweeping corner? The more I think about it with this system I would not have to adgust for load it would do it for me, correct?
Rob

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by e015475

I took a stab at drawing a schematic of what the OP described. Would appreciate any feedback from the OP as to its correctness-


When there's air pressure supplied from the tank to the pilot air port on the height control valve, the height control valve will function to regulate the height of the airbag (the red line on the schematic is the pilot/dump air controlled by the TW-1 valve)

If the pilot air is removed, the height control valve dumps the air out of the airbag.

Is this correct?

your thinking is correct as far as I know, except the condition I considered was there has to be some type of solenoid on the inlet (to let tank pressure into the valve) otherwise when you "open" the dump valve it will just continue to dump tank pressure until the tank is empty.

I quoted "open", because the state when the truck is parked and laid out will require the dump valve to be open, which means the the dump valve will either have to be energized while parked, creating a battery drain, or will have to be a normally open valve (NO, typically solenoid valves are NC normally closed). so you will energize the dump valve to closed when you want to move, and de-energize it to dump.

I think for failsafe operation with a NO dump valve, (power loss on the highway for example) you should probably put in a pilot air supply bubble with a check valve/pressure switch setup. I think this is what comprises the complexity in a bus system, which have individual electric valves per corner. most air ride systems with electric valves include check valves already for safety, if you blew a supply line or lost tank pressure the valves can only hold against a higher pressure on the back side and would constantly bleed down.


47fast, I LOVE little larry valves. I had them in the 65, and I have a collection of MIC manual valve plates on the shelf from years gone by. manual valves are great, sometimes I dont even run gauges, for the simplicity.

[mongocanfly]

Joedoh..on the "typically solenoid valves being NC"...at work we have them both normally open and normally closed...and we have thousands of sv's...in some of our processes its a saftey thing as to which one we use..

[OneOffStroker]

Originally Posted by joedoh

ok, oneoffstroker, I need to see some pictures of this ride height setup. every bit of research into leveling systems I see shows it requires two leveling valves per wheel (or two per axle if you are teed), two solenoid valves per wheel (or axle) and a pressure switch added to each wheel (or axle). the only way I see it working with one leveling valve and two solenoids per wheel (I havent seen how it works with only one solenoid yet because when I do a truth table the tank will exhaust through the dump valve if you only have one solenoid). I even looked at kneeling bus system diagrams and they are even more complex.

please, can you show us a couple pictures of your setup for clarity? it sounds promising!

I don't have any pictures now, and I am horrible about posting them, but I'll see what I can do.

I am quite sure that you have been looking into electric leveling systems, hence the multiple valves per wheel and so on. It does not have to be that hard, trust me.

About thinking that the valve just dumps the air from the tank, it absolutely does not. When the dump portion actuates, it vents the bag, but closes the supply. Think of it as a SPDT electrical switch, but in a manual pneumatic setting.

I hope that makes some sense.

Originally Posted by 59chev

Following..

Alot of us are intregued by this manual - automatic leveling option.

As I understand it, this would only work with the height control valves that have an integrated dump valve. When the dump valve is activated, it dumps the air in the bags and closes the intake valve at the same time. When the dump valve is closed, the height control valve returns to normal mode and re-inflates the bags until the truck comes back up to ride height.

YOU ARE EXACTLY CORRECT.

Originally Posted by e015475

I took a stab at drawing a schematic of what the OP described. Would appreciate any feedback from the OP as to its correctness-


When there's air pressure supplied from the tank to the pilot air port on the height control valve, the height control valve will function to regulate the height of the airbag (the red line on the schematic is the pilot/dump air controlled by the TW-1 valve)

If the pilot air is removed, the height control valve dumps the air out of the airbag.

Is this correct?

CORRECT.

Originally Posted by e015475

The OPs description of the height control valve wouldn't have any solenoids either, and would be a 'set it and forget it' system, with the option to dump the airbags with the TW1.

But with the OPs system, the only way you can change ride height is to adjust the linkage to the height valves, which is ok with me. Once i get it set to a height I like, I'd likely just leave it there.

CORRECT

Originally Posted by 47 Fasttoys

Sounds like a good system. I do adjust mine a little but I also load my truck on a regular basis as I pull a camper or boat and load all kinds of junk on the back so in my case I need the ability to adjust. My only question would be with the ride height dump valves do you end up with alot of compressor cycling because the valves are making regular adjustments? by this I mean what happens when you go into a long sweeping corner? The more I think about it with this system I would not have to adgust for load it would do it for me, correct?

You are correct in that the system could constantly use air when the suspension flexes, but minute changes aren't that big of a deal, so compressor cycling is about the same as it is with a fancy high-dollar Accuair system. I want to be frank here and mention that I am not dogging on Accuair. In fact, I have their Gen 1 setup in my '50 F1, and will be buying a new one for my '57. Some projects are worth spending the money on...

Also, yes, you set it and forget it. If you add load to your truck, it will automatically compensate and air back up.