Odd front suspension problem

[saxart]

My 1970 LB has this odd front suspension characteristic. I'm hoping someone here can lend some insight. It is the original front suspension on this truck. I've jacked up the front end checking the tie rod ends and ball joints by trying to find movement at 3 & 9 O'clock, and again at 12 & 6 O'clock and don't see any initial problems

Here's the problem... When I first pull the truck out of the garage, the front wheels will be "squatted out". It looks like there is too much weight on the front of the truck. When looking at the truck from the front, the top of the tires look tilted inward, bottoms tilted outward.

After going for a short drive, the front suspension now looks just the opposite. The top of the front wheels will be tilted outward, almost looking like there isn't enough weight on the front end of the truck. What would cause this? It almost seems as if there is maybe some binding of the suspension travel going on?

Any thoughts you could lend would be greatly appreciated. Moderators: Please don't move this thread to the "suspension" section, as I would like to see if this is possibly something specific to our 67-72 trucks.

[Shaky]

How many miles on the truck?

[hamjet]

sounds like it needs an alignment. toe in could be off so much that the tires are fighting to create the effect that they're pushing toward each other going forward. backing up would make it squat, forward would have the opposite effect. caster, camber might be the cause too. sounds silly, doesn't it. just making a guess'.

[saxart]

Originally Posted by Shaky

How many miles on the truck?

I believe the truck has about 130K on it. Possibly more important is the fact that the truck sat undriven, while parked outside, during the PO's last 5-8 years of ownership. My gut says that some part of the front suspension may be seized?

Originally Posted by hamjet

sounds like it needs an alignment. toe in could be off so much that the tires are fighting to create the effect that they're pushing toward each other going forward. backing up would make it squat, forward would have the opposite effect. caster, camber might be the cause too. sounds silly, doesn't it. just making a guess'.

I think you may be onto something Hamjet. Keep the thoughts coming guys. I'm sure somebody has had this same issue before.

[72c105speed]

Grease up the control arms shafts, ball joints... Then I'd take a jack under the control arm to load the suspension, then jack up the front end. Load and unload the suspension and watch for binding

[midniteblues]

That does sound like a odd problem.

Check those lower control arm u bolts and upper arm cross shafts.
use a good flashlite and eyeball each and every coil on your front springs checking for cracks or breaks.

Double check the balljoints not just the studs but the upper mounting bolts too.

Lube lube lube.

Also the shocks they could be seized up.
when i perform front end checks i like too too check it unloaded and loaded. Most times something will show up either way.
Also a good idea too have a helper someone too wobble the steering wheel while you feel each and every steering joint for slop. Then they can bounce on the bumper while you watch for binding.

Like everyone said you have some serious binding going on somewhere.

Perhaps a few pics could help if ya didnt allready figure it out.

Roy seems like a keeper.

[cleszkie]

Originally Posted by hamjet

sounds like it needs an alignment. toe in could be off so much that the tires are fighting to create the effect that they're pushing toward each other going forward. backing up would make it squat, forward would have the opposite effect. caster, camber might be the cause too. sounds silly, doesn't it. just making a guess'.

I agree with this 100%. Had the same issue, but with my solid axle 4x4 Blazer. Too much toe in.

[saxart]

Originally Posted by 72c105speed

Grease up the control arms shafts, ball joints... Then I'd take a jack under the control arm to load the suspension, then jack up the front end. Load and unload the suspension and watch for binding

UPDATE

Well, this can't help... I jacked up the front end by putting a jack under each front control arm instead of under the frame. The driver's side seemed OK, but the passenger side is messed up. The lower ball joint slides up an down at least 1/4" in the bore of the A-arm. It's as if the ball joint wasn't tightened down all the way or something, even though the length of exposed threads matches from side to side. It seems tight when you grab the wheel at 3 & 9 (tie rod end check) and 6 & 12 (ball joint check), but when I put a long pry-bar under the wheel and lifted up, the passenger side ball joint just easily slides up and down. Is it possible that something inside the ball joint has somehow collapsed? I'm guessing the lower A-arm on this side is going to be junk if the ball joint can just slide up and down like that, or are they not a press-fit? The ball-joint isn't loose from side to side in the bore of it's hole, just up and down.

Here you can see in this photo of the bottom of the A-arm how the ball-joint can slide up/down.

[HO455]

Yea that is a problem. Back in the day before loaded control arms were around every time we replaced press-in ball joints we tack welded them in position. It prevented call back issues. Pressing the joint out and in can distort the opening if you don't keep everything perfectly square. Then what you have is the condition your experiencing as a result. If I felt good about the condition of the ball joint I would clean it up an put two tack welds on it and call it good. Stock car racers in the lower classes always tack them down. Good luck

[Gmc.guy]

You can get moog problem solvers that are slightly bigger and have a knurled surface that are made to fit a slightly oversize/worn hole. I have not bought them for these trucks but I'm sure they would be available
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[DnHolland]

Originally Posted by Gmc.guy

You can get moog problem solvers that are slightly bigger and have a knurled surface that are made to fit a slightly oversize/worn hole. I have not bought them for these trucks but I'm sure they would be available
Posted via Mobile Device

p/n k6023

Moog is the only way to go. Go ahead and replace both of them. Check your uppers too.

[saxart]

Thanks for all of the help. At this point I'm going to just go ahead and replace all of the ball joints. Once the old ball joints are removed, we'll be able to see how the control arm bushings look when each arm can be moved independently.

[midniteblues]

Thats a hairy situation. Heres my thoughts and expeirances.
Ive seen a couple lowers and uppers come apart going down the road.
Either from the lower bj bore being wore out or the taper in the spindle wore or egged,cheap over torqed undersized upper bolts and over torqed castle nuts.

in either case you could lose a wheel and have a big problem.

Never a good thing and very unsafe.
also its difficult to mike the bore since its stamped peice and not perfectly flat all the way through. But mikeing the bore might show ya if its egged out at all.

The bore could wore out just enough that even a oversized moog might feel like it seated but really only have little contact too the bore and still not seat correctly.

Eye ball that bore real good for cracks.
if there is movement that you may not be able too feel a weld will start cracking the steel just beyond the weld.

I would replace that lower arm and b joints for safety sake.
Control arms are common enough not too replace it.
you'll have the piece of mind that it was done correctly and be safe out on the roads.

Also it looks like you might wanna check those wheel bearings looks like hot/burned grease running down the backing plate.

[davepl]

Have the control arms ever been off? It's pretty easy to install them backwards (swapped front to rear and side to side). It's a genuine longshot, but if they've been off, worth checking...

[midniteblues]

Originally Posted by davepl

Have the control arms ever been off? It's pretty easy to install them backwards (swapped front to rear and side to side). It's a genuine longshot, but if they've been off, worth checking...

If the lowers were swapped side to side then the shock mount and"if" he has one sway bar mount holes would be reversed.
The uppers very possible too swap them side too side if they were removed sometime.
the only way too visually tell with the uppers is the bump stop should be on the rear most side of the upper.besides the tire not being centered.