Hot starter

[Dedge]

I have a 69 C/10 with a ZZ4 350, long tube headers, geared (peanut) starter. The proximity of the headers to the starter seems to be over heating the starter. I have a heat shield hanging between the headers and starter already. The starter is most affected on short shut down restarts like gas stops when all air movement under the hood stops. I have been opening the hood to help relieve the engine compartment of heat during stops. Restarts after this are still just barely successful. I figure I'm cooking my starter to eventual total failure if I don't find a work-around. Perhaps a shield that attaches to the starter should be added...? Or wrapping the header tubes with heat wrap...?

Has anybody out there had this problem and found a solution? "I covet your thoughts" Thanks.

[71swb4x4]

I had that problem once. Backed my timing off a couple degrees and I never a problem again.
I am not sure mine was heat, or if I the timing was advanced just enough where when it was hot it would sort of vapor lock.

[prodjay10]

Mine would click when hot or cold. Turned out the battery caused damage to the starter so I had that fixed by having the contacts in the solenoid cleaned then replaced the battery.

Been fine for a week now.

[davepl]

You said "most affected" when hot but you don't say what the effect is. Does it do NOTHING? If so, that's the purple wire on the starter not able to supply enough current to kick it in when hot, and is a separate issue from the starter.

If it clicks, then it's not that. But I'm not sure what its doing.

[custom10nut]

It. Sounds like you're having the same issue that I have. Cold starts are normal, as are starts after a one hour+ shut down. Quick stops? Forget about it. I have the same setup that you have, except I'm running the original engine.
The problem is that the header is over heating the starter solenoid, causing the bendix to not fully engage the flex plate gear.
I have a fabricated heat shield on mine that seems to work on short trips, but on longer runs I still have the issue. My next attempt at a remedy is going to be a Kevlar heat blanket and wrap the header with heat tape.
Does anyone else out use one of those heat blankets?

[Dedge]

Originally Posted by davepl

You said "most affected" when hot but you don't say what the effect is. Does it do NOTHING? If so, that's the purple wire on the starter not able to supply enough current to kick it in when hot, and is a separate issue from the starter.

If it clicks, then it's not that. But I'm not sure what its doing.

Thanks. When the engine is at full operating temp the starter strains to turn the engine over as if the battery is near dead. The battery is very healthy.

[Dedge]

Originally Posted by custom10nut

It. Sounds like you're having the same issue that I have. Cold starts are normal, as are starts after a one hour+ shut down. Quick stops? Forget about it. I have the same setup that you have, except I'm running the original engine.
The problem is that the header is over heating the starter solenoid, causing the bendix to not fully engage the flex plate gear.
I have a fabricated heat shield on mine that seems to work on short trips, but on longer runs I still have the issue. My next attempt at a remedy is going to be a Kevlar heat blanket and wrap the header with heat tape.
Does anyone else out use one of those heat blankets?

Thanks. I've wondered about the heat blanket wrap as well. Just wondering out loud: If you wrap any header tube would that require you to wrap them all for exhaust temp consistency? (Might be a stupid question but I'm kinda good at that.)

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Dedge

Thanks. When the engine is at full operating temp the starter strains to turn the engine over as if the battery is near dead. The battery is very healthy.

Ah, then that's not the purple-wire-solenoid issue, it's likely just heat as you thought. A heat shield will help, as would wrapping the headers at that area.

If you're running a fullsize GM starter sometimes a gear reduction mini-starter will be smaller and have more airspace around it, that can help.

[RustyBucket]

Both of my trucks were hard to start hot..... turned real slow. Sometimes I'd have to let 'em cool before they'd start. Had the timing retarded some so they'd turn better. I was gonna buy #2 cables and new starters. Reading on the Team Chevelle site I saw several guys were using the little mini starters from DB Electrical and liked them. $44 free shipping... I put one on the '71 GMC, cast iron exh, stockish 350 and it turns GOOD hot or cold. I bought one for the 72 454 Blazer w/headers and it turns GREAT too. Bumped the timing back up on both. Neither of my trucks are DD's so they don't have to start as often as some. I posted about these starters on another thread and apparently some guys had less than good service. So far so good for me. Nice to twist the key in front of a store or at a gas station and have it bang right off. Figured it was worth a try for $44.

[franken]

Is the ground cable running to the block? What's the battery voltage when its been sitting and when the engine is running? What's the starter voltage to ground when the problem occurs? What's the initial timing at?

[leftybass209]

I'd take a multimeter and do voltage drops across both negative and positive cables. I don't know how many times people say, I have 12 volts, battery is new, but when the battery is load tested, it isn't any good.

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

I'd take a multimeter and do voltage drops across both negative and positive cables. I don't know how many times people say, I have 12 volts, battery is new, but when the battery is load tested, it isn't any good.

That is a good idea.

I don't have a heat soak problem on mine, but I do have an unreliable starter and I've ordered a new mini-starter because I've heard good news about them.

For those folks who have electic fans, I wonder if putting a time delay relay on them would help, to keep them on 10 minutes after shutdown.

[franken]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

I'd take a multimeter and do voltage drops across both negative and positive cables. I don't know how many times people say, I have 12 volts, battery is new, but when the battery is load tested, it isn't any good.

This is a good idea. A quick low tech test is to feel the cable ends--hot means resistance that doesn't belong, which limits current, which means less Volts to the starter.
I generally get ~4 years out of batteries. I have 2 SBCs w/ headers and marginal wiring. Both have zero start issues and no mini-starters. Then again both have truck or old style starters that bolt to the BH, not the block--I just realized this.
My thought is that mini-starters are more the result of trying to reduce weight than any other advantage. Rumor has it w/ extended cranking they overheat.
Good parts, battery, wiring, proper ground, and correct timing should solve almost any crank, click, or nothing starter issue.
The problem is people start shotgunning parts because dead on the side of the road makes us feel dumb.