1956 Chevy 3100 front bearings (ball to roller?)

[SKFengineer]

I've seen kits for converting the angular contact ball bearings to tapered roller bearings (TRB's) on the front wheel hubs of our trucks. I was wondering if anyone who has made the conversion has the part numbers for the TRB's in the kits. I would like to get the bearings directly from an industrial distributor so I can be sure of the quality level being used.

Thanks for your help.

- George

[dwcsr]

To my knowledge the inners are only made by one company named MBS in Japan so no matter where you get them they will be the same maker
MBS 909052R
the outers are 70 Camaro 09074 cone and 09207 cup

http://www.mbs-m.co.jp/common/mbs_e-catologue_2012.pdf

[SKFengineer]

Being I work for a bearing company I'll dig into those numbers and see if there is another source out there for these parts. Not promising to find anything new but I'll look around to see if there are any other options. That being said if MBS is from Japan they are likely pretty good, the Japanese build a fairly good bearing.

I'll write back here when and if I find anything.

[mr48chev]

I've got a set at home that I bought off Ebay but I am in Redding Ca at the moment.

[SKFengineer]

I'm in PA but I just got back from vacation in Lassen National Park near Redding.

[Coupeguy2001]

I bought a set, and it looks to me like the measurements were off when they picked the front seals.
The seals don't fit well, they do not fit over the bearing inner race, and seal the dirt out or the grease in.

[capnduane]

I bought the tapered roller set from CPP, and installed it in my '55 2nd. Been 3 years now and they work fine, no problems.

[1project2many]

Ball Part nos below:
orig # GM 909052, FAFNIR10052, SKF# 909052, BCA# B-52
orig #, GM 909067, FAFNIR10067, SKF# 909067, BCA# B-67

The old way to order the the roller was to add an R to the end of the GM ball brg no. So roller numbers were 909052R and 909067R. MBS still makes the 909052R roller version. Info is on page 7 of catalog linked above.

[tmoble]

Coupeguy, they don't fit over the inner race, that's in the hub. They are sort of a semi-press fit in the hub and the rubber is a tight slip fit over the seal surface on the spindle. Did you try one there?

[Coupeguy2001]

I know how they go together, just didn't fit well at all. went back to So cal Ford in PHX, and they couldntt match anything up. gave me a new set that fit better, but still not perfect. even tried pressing the inner race in farther to see if that would help, but no satisfaction.
Tried shimming the area between where the seal stopped on the inboard edge of the race to get the gap closed, but no good. Then swapped in another hub to see if that would work, and it was the same.
Don't have a straight axle anymore, but I went through a few bearings till i took it out all together.

[whitedog76]

I have MBS rollers in my 3600. They are beefy and good quality, but I was not pleased with the fitment. I had to emery the crap out of the spindle. I had to emery the hub for the race to fit too. The grease seal doesn't fit all that great either. Worst of all, I had to use machine bushings to take up the play.

Personally, I would stick with ball bearings. Less fitment issues and they roll easier.

[tmoble]

Coupeguy, not sure where you're at there bu the races, both inner and outer, should be driven in till seated hard against the lip in the hub.

[SKFengineer]

Hello all, so as the screen name implies I work for SKF and I assumed that I would be able to find something that others couldn't because of our systems here but my assumption was wrong. I checked our various production sites and warehouses just to confirm what others have said, we don't make these bearings anymore. Not only that we don't make anything close to the bore size for the one bearing so I was up that creek without a paddle on those efforts.

I think moving forward I'll still consider a TRB solution but I'm not in a rush to make the change as our truck is very stable at speed and the bearings looked to be in good condition during inspection.

Whitedog and coupeguy I'm with Tmoble I'm not sure I understand why you would have fitment issues that require shims or bushings but then again I might not understand what you typed and the mistake is all mine.

Either way thanks to all that replied.

[Coupeguy2001]

I have installed at least a hundred of them.
The conversion parts are incorrectly chosen for this application.
I now have a custom fabricated G body metric front end with tubular control arms and a 1 1/4" swaybar.
no bearing problems any more

But I will gladly sell the rollers and original ball bearings from my emer. kit.

[1project2many]

I think moving forward I'll still consider a TRB solution but I'm not in a rush to make the change as our truck is very stable at speed and the bearings looked to be in good condition during inspection.

Why are you considering changing bearings? Ball bearings can provide very acceptable service life if used appropriately and maintained properly. Replacement ball sets are available if needed. There is much better understanding of how to build and spec grease than in the '50s as well so it should be possible to pick a high quality, long lasting lubricant.

[whitedog76]

Machine bushing

[SKFengineer]

The major reason I would consider Tapered Roller Bearings (TRB's) is because of stiffness and deflection. The radius of the wheel and tire can create a fairly sizable moment arm that can result in relative movement of the wheel rotating axis vs. the axle shaft during a turn. However considering lubrication and friction the existing Angular Contact Ball Bearing design is more suitable. Load could also be an issue but I'm not worried about that as I don't think our trucks are really taxing the load rating of these bearings. Overall the bearing design used in our '56 is still in good condition so I'm not worried about it's capabilities of doing the job required, I just figured if SKF still made the TRB's I could get a free upgrade resulting in better wheel control.

[1project2many]

The major reason I would consider Tapered Roller Bearings (TRB's) is because of stiffness and deflection.... Load could also be an issue but I'm not worried about that as I don't think our trucks are really taxing the load rating of these bearings.

There is some argument for TRB there. Stiff sidewall bias ply tires were prone to slide across surfaces reducing side load in turns. Radials do not behave the same. Additionally a truck like ours was much more likely to operate on a dirt road when new. I suppose, these days, we rarely hear about trucks losing wheels due to bearing failure and most folks with mildly upgraded trucks probably aren't pushing the vehicle's limits. I know some folks who still run original type bearings in vintage stock cars but "racer knowledge" says larger spindles and hubs, which come with TRB's, are a must-have for hard play.

[Coupeguy2001]

I used to have problems with the front ball outer bearings all the time until I increased the bearing preload 4 foot lbs.
I used my truck to go to work for 40 years, and every year, I would have to change the outer bearings.

The original bearing preload is 34 foot LBS. That is to counteract the axle stretch when the brakes and tire heat is transferred to the axle. Then the bearing preload would be about right.
it is true that with today's greases, the bearings do last longer. I would start to feel the vibration in the steering wheel, and know that I needed to head to the auto parts store for a set of outers. The tires I was running was 275/60/15 on all four corners. So it was imperative that I monitored my bearings closely.

In all the time I have driven this truck, I only ever had to replace the inner front bearings once, around 1989.
I have almost 360,000 miles on it, and about 20,000 miles on the new front end.

In order to stop changing bearings, I went to the tapered bearings, but because of the poor seal fit, I ended up checking them again every year to clean them and check for contamination by dirt and water. If the bearings had a formed in place seal, there wouldn't be an issue.

I have not had to do anything with the tapered bearings with the Grand National Buick front, although I have removed them and regreased them a couple years ago. They looked almost as good as when i installed them. With the tapered bearings, there is only 5-7 lbs preload.
But then again, I am using factory spindles, direct replacement seals, original spec bearings and synthetic grease.