Steering Column: Seeking assistance identifying some parts, etc.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

1971 C-10, Automatic Transmission and no tilt wheel.

I need to remove the entire column, and at some point the steering box as well. I have a manual, but I'm a bit lost at the moment. Could just tear into this, do it wrong or break something.

I've only removed what you see missing in these pics, and the bolts from the rag joint to the flange have been removed. On a side note, I don't think you're supposed to remove those rag joint to flange bolts. The book says to remove the nuts and then "lower" the steering box to replace that joint, which seems to mean the bolts remain in the joint.

Any suggestions for procedure appreciated. Anyway, these pics are self explanatory with questions, and an image of the parts list from the manual are included.......Thanks for any help.

[HO455]

I'm by no means an expert but I will try to help.
1. I believe that it is called "intermediate" as it is on the center part of the steering shaft with the shaft from the steering box being the lower and the shaft from the wheel down through the firewall being the upper. Prior to sometime around the mid fifties the steering box and the columns were all one piece, then for safety they were cut into pieces so the steering column wouldn't get shoved through the drivers body in a head on wreck. The lower flange is on the steering box shaft.
2. Those don't have to be removed as the column comes up through the dash and out into the cab when removing.
3. I pretty sure that is the "pot joint". It is a break away coupling between the intermediate shaft and the upper shaft. It in conjunction with the rag joint prevent impalements.
4. Adjusting clamp. If you remove one of the bolts you should be able to see it passes through an angled slot in the column's housing so when rotated the bushing can be adjusted.
5. The clamp for the firewall to column seal.
6. I don't know the proper name of it but it holds the firewall seal on the firewall and when removed makes the hole large enough for the column to pass through.
7. " plate thingy ". I'm sorry. I have no idea on that one.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Thanks HO455.................

#1: My confusion is the 1971 Service Manual reads "remove intermediate shaft flange to flexible coupling bolts". Seems to imply you remove the rag joint bolts, and "remove" bolts may not be necessary. Additionally, the image above reads "lower steering shaft"................This is why I'm confused. Personally, I'd guess lower shaft, but I can see your point. Can anyone confirm?


#2, Good to know, but here's another pickle. The book reads "lower and then withdraw the column assembly, rotating so the shift levers clear the toe pan opening".......What the shift levers? They speaking in manual trans? The only shift levers I know change gears at the the top and the other side of the firewall, so they're clear already Anyone?

#3: Can anyone confirm this part is a pot joint?

#4: Adjusting clamp. You mean one of the screws as opposed bolts? I believe all five (3 @ the rear) are short fine thread screws. #4 in the manual under STEERING COLUMN also reads screws, though they call this "column clamp screws".

#5: Clamp. Ah I see now. "Sometimes" my eyes fail me. I need to habit glasses when working on this stuff.

#6: Well, for lack of better term it's a "firewall steering column seal cover".

#7: Anyone know what the plate is called? In the meantime, I'll check the assembly manual for brakes, it might be there. Didn't "see" it under column.

Other: The manual under STEERING COLUMN (#8) reads, "remove cap screws from column support bracket at the dash panel". Perhaps that plate in #7 is the column support bracket, or are these instructions for the two screws that bolt the clamp to the plate in #7?


Any brief descriptions how to tear this down from here appreciated. I can just dive in, but nothing like doing it in the right order the first time. This is a complete tear down, so everything needs to come off anyway.

[HO455]

Here is more information for you.
3. http://www.chevelles.com/forums/16-b...ng-column.html. It's called a "Pot Joint" because it is "potted" when manufactured. The two ends are positioned together with the outer housing in a jig and then rubber is injected to bond the pieces together. The process of injection moulding with out a mould is called potting. It is the same method that is used for control arm bushings.

2. The shift lever they are referring to are the two 3-4" arms just below the firewall. One is where the linkage to the tranny hooks up and the other one is the detents for PRND21.

4. Yes the fine threaded ones. They go into an internal ring that can be adjusted by turning the clamp and bolts together. These are only used on automatics as it adjusts the shifter tension for the detents. It is not a clamp in the conventional sense, but keeps the screws from deforming the column housing when they tightened down. I can't speak to what a manual shift column looks like as I haven't had one of those apart.

Quote "Perhaps that plate in #7 is the column support bracket, or are these instructions for the two screws that bolt the clamp to the plate in #7? "
I believe you are correct it is the column support bracket. It will need to be removed to pull the column. When I removed mine I unbolted the bracket from the column just to make it easier to navigate out of the cab.

I removed and tore down my column before I started posting the repairs to my Burban otherwise I could have referred you to it. The first thing I did to the Burban was rip the 80's Vette column and wheel out of it and return it to stock. After I got my nice looking stock column installed I found out the shifter was so stiff it was almost impossible to shift. So out back out it came and I tore it all apart and found the bushing for the shifter on the bottom was rusted so badly I ended up destroying it taking it apart and had to make a replacement. I hope yours goes better.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by HO455

Here is more information for you.
3. http://www.chevelles.com/forums/16-b...ng-column.html. It's called a "Pot Joint" because it is "potted" when manufactured. The two ends are positioned together with the outer housing in a jig and then rubber is injected to bond the pieces together. The process of injection moulding with out a mould is called potting. It is the same method that is used for control arm bushings.

2. The shift lever they are referring to are the two 3-4" arms just below the firewall. One is where the linkage to the tranny hooks up and the other one is the detents for PRND21.

4. Yes the fine threaded ones. They go into an internal ring that can be adjusted by turning the clamp and bolts together. These are only used on automatics as it adjusts the shifter tension for the detents. It is not a clamp in the conventional sense, but keeps the screws from deforming the column housing when they tightened down. I can't speak to what a manual shift column looks like as I haven't had one of those apart.

Quote "Perhaps that plate in #7 is the column support bracket, or are these instructions for the two screws that bolt the clamp to the plate in #7? "
I believe you are correct it is the column support bracket. It will need to be removed to pull the column. When I removed mine I unbolted the bracket from the column just to make it easier to navigate out of the cab.

I removed and tore down my column before I started posting the repairs to my Burban otherwise I could have referred you to it. The first thing I did to the Burban was rip the 80's Vette column and wheel out of it and return it to stock. After I got my nice looking stock column installed I found out the shifter was so stiff it was almost impossible to shift. So out back out it came and I tore it all apart and found the bushing for the shifter on the bottom was rusted so badly I ended up destroying it taking it apart and had to make a replacement. I hope yours goes better.

3. So the Pot Joint must be the "intermediate coupling". That or in lieu of one. This is making more sense. First instructions for a point joint are to remove the lower shaft to flex. coupling bolts (aka rag joint). Lower vs intermediate, I suppose could be two different columns.

2. I figured those were the shift levers. Where I'm lost is their instructions read to lower the assembly and guide the shift levers through the toe pan hole. I can't connect the dots with this statement, while you say raise the column.

4. What bolts do you mean by "can be adjusted by turning the clamp and bolts together"?


Thank you, you've helped tie a lot of loose ends.

[HO455]

2. I believe that "to lower" they mean to set the steering wheel down on the seat. Not to move the column into the engine compartment. By raise I mean pull the column up into the cab.

4. I see now that part of your confusion is coming from the exploded view you have. It's a "typical" drawing which is GM code for not the exact drawing. (Why would you want that?) It looks to be from an older vehicle. In your picture with the #4 tag it points at one set of bolts and a C shaped clamp around the housing and there is a second set about 3" up the column. Your drawing doesn't show both of them. Those bolts you see in the picture go into pieces similar to #17 on the drawing. One of them is the lower column bearing and the other one holds the return spring for the shifter. I believe the lower set is for the spring retention. The spring is what forces the shifter handle away from the steering wheel. This is the hard part to explain. The bolts going into #17 piece pass through slots in the housing and holes in the C shaped clamp. The slots are cut at a 45* angle in the housing. When the bolts in the C clamp are loose you can turn the #17 piece from the outside. The #17 piece will move up or down inside the housing (maybe a 1/4") when turned. None of these clamps or bolts need to removed for the column to be taken out. After you have the column out and if you want to tear down the column and replace the bearings then you would need to remove them.

I'm not sure but I think that the term "pot joint" is a Mopar name for what GM calls the intermediate coupling.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Still a little confused what you mean by bolts. Perhaps the image below will help.


If I'm getting your meaning about raising the column in, perhaps all I need to do is:

1. Remove everything from the steering wheel to the shift housing bushing. Done.

2. Disconnect flange from the rag joint Done.

3. Remove the clamp under the dash from the column support bracket. Done.

4. Remove toe pan Not done.

5. Disconnect neutral safety switch (or reverse switch). I read there are variables, not sure what I've got at the moment. Anyway, I removed it from the jacket any, and missing a screw (common occurrence in this cab.). What ever it plugs into at at the top wants to be a pain, so figure to revisit with a new attitude and the column removed.

5. Loosen clamp and remove declared "firewall steering column seal cover"... Which are #5 and #6, 4th picture down.

6. Disconnect shift lever from linkage.

7. Unless I need to disconnect the pot joint, just pull the entire thing out, pop a beer and celebrate anew hole in the firewall.

[HO455]

Remove the bolts in the firewall marked "Or these bolts" that will allow you remove the metal firewall seal cover and to see the firewall seal. If I remember correctly one of the seal cover bolts also holds the brake master cylinder to the firewall. That seal neads to get carefully pushed inside the cab and it will come out with the column. Not all of your label tabs have text in them, so I'm assuming they are for the bolts holding the seal cover.

Disconnect the safety switch and the column should be free to come out and then it's time for that Barley Pop!

The other fasteners you're calling machine screws don't need to be removed.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by HO455

Remove the bolts in the firewall marked "Or these bolts" that will allow you remove the metal firewall seal cover and to see the firewall seal. If I remember correctly one of the seal cover bolts also holds the brake master cylinder to the firewall. That seal neads to get carefully pushed inside the cab and it will come out with the column. Not all of your label tabs have text in them, so I'm assuming they are for the bolts holding the seal cover.

Disconnect the safety switch and the column should be free to come out and then it's time for that Barley Pop!

The other fasteners you're calling machine screws don't need to be removed.

You're correct. Technically the brake booster, held by four studs through the column support bracket, and one bolt into the cover you're referring to. That cover uses two bolts to the firewall, one for the clamp.

Thanks to your help I realize this is near ready to pull. I'll get an extra set of hands this weekend, pull this out an move onto the brakes. Thanks for helping ID parts too. That's a battle itself.

[HO455]

Your welcome have fun!

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Sorry, but I meant to ask the purpose for adjusting the lower bushing. Or really, what is the goal? I imagine snug to the top and bottom, but thought to ask anyway.

That and what's 1:18 through 1:22 all about in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_pRKhF3f4U

[HO455]

[quote=71CHEVYSHORTBED402;7753128]Sorry, but I meant to ask the purpose for adjusting the lower bushing. Or really, what is the goal? I imagine snug to the top and bottom, but thought to ask anyway.

That and what's 1:18 through 1:22 all about in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_pRKhF3f4U[/quote

Sorry it took so long to get back to you life seems to keep getting in the way lately. So I'm going to try to help here but I don't have any kind of manual on this. I just took mine apart to find the problem and put it back together about a year ago. So just going on memory here. And it's not a low milage memory either. I took some photos of my column which is an earlier version than yours as it doesn't have the pot joint.
I believe that the lowest set of bolts adjusts the amount of space/play in the shifter arm when you pull it. See photo 1. (Blue line for direction of adjustment. Green points to the base of the shfter arm your adjusting the play on. Please forgive my crude pointers) The shift detent system is pretty crude and needs some way to be adjusted for proper clearance. Which decided to I set at about 1/8" between the detent and the arm at the detents highest spot. ( Photo 2 Green arrow to detent. Blue arrow to shifter linkage.). Photo 2 doesn't show the clearance, but between the two pieces is where I set the clearance.
Prior to adjusting that the lowest clamp, which holds the spring, must be tightened down while maintaining spring in a compressed state. I tried several times to get it so it felt right. The spring and clamp force the shaft bearing races together and prevent the wheel from moving up and down. (Photo 3 Green is the clamp, Red is the spring, Blue is the lower bearing) I believe it is spring loaded to compensate for themal expansion and ease of assembly. Looking at the photos of your column it looks as if your lower bearing has failed and has dropped down over the spring. It should look more like photo 3.
The second set of bolts and clamp is to holds the detent arm to the colunm. (Photo 4). I don't remember if the holes are slotted to allow the detent to be adjusted to match the gear indicator.
Photo 5 gratuitous picture of my Burban on its first time out of the paint shop for a photo op.
Hope this helps and doesn't cause too much confusion.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

No reason to apologize, I figured this thread died a natural death. I think I understand what you're saying:

1. The lower C-clamp adjusts the shift arm (aka "lower gear shift").

2. The upper C-clamp maintains the detent (aka "gear adjuster plate").

3. You say the spring and clamp force the shaft bearing to race together and prevent the wheel from moving up and down. If I understand you right, you don't adjust the bearing, it's just supported by the spring and clamp.


Doesn't surprise me I have a bad bearing. I was planning on replacing it anyway. May as well replace the top bearing as well, assuming you can buy good replacement parts. The pot joint dust boot is bad as well.

Very cool Suburban. Don't know your name, but you've been a great help and it's appreciated.

[HO455]

That's the way I understand it works. I believe the bearings are still available from GM. But I have no idea about the pot joint. You might talk to Mel at Classic Heartbeat about them. I'm sure there are some threads about replacing the bearings as it is a pretty common failure with the age of them. And thanks for the complement on the Burban. Its still coming together. I got the second row windows installed yesterday. I could drive it at this point, but the seats aren't bolted down, some sound deadening must get installed before that.
VC

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Lots of parts from Mel and many to go. I have everything apart but:

Once the pot joint is removed from the upper shaft spindle, happen to know if the pot joint just pulls right out of the intermediate shaft? I can pull it back, but the dust boot seems to grab hold like the world's best %%%%%. Seems there's more to it than the dust boot.

Also, how is the lower bearing removed/installed? By chance are they pounding on the shaft (video post #11) to seat that bushing on install? Other than that, having taken this apart, I don't see why they're doing that.

[HO455]

This is a link to the mother load of steering information. It is Corvette oriented but lots of good info that applies to our trucks. And there is a PDF on the pot couplings.
http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/?p=584
Noticed that your in Carson City. I lived there for two years as a kid. It was a real nice place.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Thanks, I'll check it out. Yeah born in Reno, migrated to CC when I was 10, 1972. What years did you live in CC?

[HO455]

Wow what a small world. I was born in Herlong CA, and moved outside of Reno when I was three or so then we moved to Carson after 3rd grade which I believe was about 1972 and two years later we moved to Northern Idaho.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by HO455

Wow what a small world. I was born in Herlong CA, and moved outside of Reno when I was three or so then we moved to Carson after 3rd grade which I believe was about 1972 and two years later we moved to Northern Idaho.

Seems in age you're somewhere between my brother and I. We went to Corbett elementary. Google shows a population of 19,999 in 1972. "Coincidence". I doubled checked. We moved to Carson in November, 1971. Fifth grade.

[HO455]

I'll have to check with my mom to get a better idea of the timing and what school I was in. The Apollo moon landing traveling exhibit came through town and I still remember it well. Currently at fifty four years.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by HO455

I'll have to check with my mom to get a better idea of the timing and what school I was in. The Apollo moon landing traveling exhibit came through town and I still remember it well. Currently at fifty four years.

Ha, I'll be 55 in December. I remember the exhibit too.