Engine Health - 235

[FAKKY]

57 Panel truck
Had a guy and his dad come by today to look at my 235 engine im selling. Long story short said it was a clean/nice looking engine but was "worried about a lifter "tick" that probably meant it needs rebuild"....

I hear the same tick but honestly just felt it was at worst needing a small adjustment. Not sure how someone determines a rebuild required from just a lifter tick - but not too familiar with these engines. So best way to determine engine health ?

Was planning to just

1) Adjust lifter/rockers with engine running until goes rough, then adjust back until quiet and smooth and go 1/2 turn.

2) Run a leakdown test.

3) Compression test.

Thoughts ?
Also not even opened the valve cover on these engines - what size spark plug for comrpession adapters - 14mm like a modern engine or something else ?

thanks

[dwcsr]

There isn't a 235 on earth that doesn't have a slight tick. Hes just trying to low ball you. It may well need a rebuild but no one can tell that by a tick on a lifter.

57 if its stock should have solids in it not hydraulics, do not 1/2 turn past quiet.
leak down and compression should give you all you need to know along with idle oil pressure and vacuum reading. Used 235's that are original most likely do need a rebuild. They should know that. What price did you put on it?

[FAKKY]

400 dollars.

Starts well and idles well. Seems powerful enough for a 100hp engine at best.

[FAKKY]

[FAKKY]

[joedoh]

I sold my 53 235 (full pressure also) and 4 spd trans for $400 locked up and in completely unknown condition. that guy could probably stand to have his head checked for a tick. just the remote oil filter is worth $80. I think your price is generous for a running 235.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by FAKKY

That more that reasonable for a running engine, You could part it out for that
Head $150
intake exhaust manifold 100
Carb $100
flywheel 100
bell housing $45
starter $50
filter unit $50

and scrap the block

so $400 is a very good price

[mr48chev]

I'd think the results from a proper compression test, a leak down test and and accurate oil pressure gauge are far more important than a little tic tic tic out of the valve train.

If the engine fires right off when cold, holds oil pressure and runs smooth I'd say your price fair and

[Jemezcrusher]

If I were closer, I would buy that for a spare for 400. SOme guys asking 250 for a block. These are getting harder to find.

[dsraven]

do a valve adjustment, compression test- dry and wet, leak down test and oil pressure test- cold and hot. then relist it with those results. thats what guys wanna know when spending the cash on something. if it is good then it will prolly sell for asking price. a short video of it running after would be good as well so guys can check it before driving over. there are so many "mint" items in the ads these days that guys are gun shy cause stuff are is from "mint" when they arrive to check the item out.

[whitedog76]

I've tried to sell 2 235 engines in the past. Both with the 848 heads. It was like pulling my own teeth. Condidering this engine hasn't been manufactured since 1962, my potential buyers were #1 cheap, and #2 super critical.

Good luck.

Chris

[73kay]

Hahah same I had to practically give away my 250 and I when I recently bought a 58 235 guy was asking $300 but got it for $100. Maybe Texas has an abundance of old engines.

[FAKKY]

Hey guys - sorry didnt get the email saying thread had been updated.

I picked up a 13/16 spark plug socket this morning and hope to pull and do compression test this week and a leakdown after that (all of my sockets were too thick impact).

Not too worried about it selling or not ........ worst case I will part it out or use to to do my first engine rebuild

More that when the guy and his dad got there ....and kept talking about the tick and needing a rebuild I was like "man I know even less than I thought I did....." meaning not sure how anyone works out a valve /lifter tick requires rebuild. Oil looks good, no smoke, idles clean, so on.

Never been or even seen a running 235 before ....... so to me it sounds perfectly fine ... obviously there is some valve train noise ...... but nothing that stands out more than my old diesel .....

I'm going to do the tests to satisfy my curiosity and piece of mind to pass on to potential buyer..... but whatever way it goes is fine.

Now - qq on compression test. From what I've read it sounds like you can just pull the main coil wire from the top of the distributor (the one that connects coil to distributor) .... then pull all the plugs and have at it. Did read a few references to grounding the coil wire after pulled as well. Make sure throttle in wide open. Required ? Input ?

thanks

[mr48chev]

I'd figure that they were trying to lowball you like someone else suggested or hunting for that fully rebuilt with new everything 2500 engine for 400 bucks.

20 + years ago a decent 235 head that wasn't cracked went for 100 bucks because so many hop trucks were built out of 1-1/2 ton AD trucks at the time. I haven't heard prices lately but have seen a lot of cores with an asking price of 200 or more on one site FB.

That it's still in the truck and you can fire it up and let them listen to it run and possibly even take them for a trip down the street and back says that your asking price isn't out of line when guys are asking that or more for one sitting on the shop floor. Someone will come along that thinks it is the perfect engine for his driver pickup or car and be plumb happy to get it.

[dsraven]

Adjust valves first. Leave the valve cover off or just sitting on top so you can see later on the leakdown test if the valves of the cylinder in question are fully closed for the test

Compression test, do dry first

Make sure battery is fully charged and you have a good second battery or vehicle to boost with. Cable connections etc are all good. All other electrical draw is shut off, heater etc.
Pull all plugs
Pull centre ign wire from dist cap and ground it, or, pull the power wire off the coil. Less chance of getting zapped with scenario 2, in case you bumble into the grounded wire and it becomes ungrounded and touches you somehow when engine is cranking
Block throttle and choke plates wide open
Insert quality compression tool into spark plug hole, hang unit so you can see the guage while engine is being cranked
Crank engine to achieve best pressure reading. Release air from tool and do again. Record reading. Do this for all cylinders ensuring the battery stays good to keep cranking rpm consistent

Now for the wet test

squirt some oil into the first cylinder, install the guage, crank engine same procedure as before, record findings.
Before going to the next cylinder you may want to hang an old towel or the like in front of that wet spark plug hole so if any oil blows out while cranking engine for next cyl test it wont make a big mess. Make sure it wont get sucked into a belt or fan
When done compare results per cylinder. If a cylinder is low when dry testing but comes up a bunch when wet testing you may have worn piston rings. If it stays low you have another issue like bad valve.from lowest to highest on dry test should be within 10% of each other

To do blowby test
Ensure the cylinder to test has the valves closed by looking under the loose valve cover. Lock engine in this position by putting in low gear and having buddy step on brakes hard when testing
screw adapter into spark plug hole and slowly connect air line. Be aware the engine may want to crank by itself because air wants to push piston to bottom of cylinder. Try to do this as far from compressor as possible because you cant hear air leaking with the noise of the compressor running.
Check for air escaping through carb, suggesting an intake valve leaking or exhaust pipe, suggesting an exhaust valve leaking. Then through oil breather, suggesting worn piston rings
Put everything back like normal and ensure proper operation of throttle and choke

Oil pressure
Some would change oil and filter before doing this test to ensure visconsity of oil is correct

Connect known good test guage to oil gallery, cold engine
Start engine and check guage reading at normal idle speed. Record. Check and record again at off idle and higher rpm
Allow engine to run up to normal operating temp
Check guage at normal idle speed and record. Do other tests same as before and record
Remove test guage and restore to original condition as before testing
Save results complete with date and vin

Done

[dsraven]

If, after valve adjust and oil change, you still have a tick. Look for a possible exhaust manifold leak. They mimmick a valve/lifter noise. Get anautomotive sthethoscope and set it up with an open tube on the end. Or use a piece of tubing you have laying around, like old heater or garden hose. Start engine and allow to idle. Put stethoscope on, or hose up to one ear, and poke around the exhaust manifold to cyl head area. Try the heat riser area as well because they can also tick. If no luck try to think back to when the valve cover was off, was it oily up top like normal? Top end getting good oil supply? You can also take the belt off and try running the engine for a couple of minutes, just remember the water pump is belt driven so make it short to avoid overheating the engine. Sometimes a water pump bearing or a generator brush set can make noise.


Hope this helps

[dsraven]

Also check the fuel pump when you have the stethoscope/hose in use.they can also tick.

[dsraven]

Also, does very light pressure on clutch pedal make a diffetence in the engine tick? Could be noisy release bearing.

[dsraven]

Also pull distributor cap and check centrifugal advance mechanism for wear to rule out noise from that area.

[FAKKY]

Damn son ^^^^

Late nights celebrating the Broncos

Thx.... the 13/16 I bought yesterday isn't deep enough. I knew it when I bought it .... but it was $1.90 instead of $7 ....... lol

Will pick up the right one and update here soon.

Thanks for details

[FAKKY]

Sorry guys been a busy 2 weeks pulling front apart and other things ..... started a build thread
But basically pulled plugs and disabled distributor and coils

Cold motor and didn't touch throttle open

119-122 across all 6 cylinders.
Looks pretty good

[dsraven]

here are some specs i pulled off google, second chance garage. comp pressure is a bit low according to this.


TUNE UP SPECIFICATIONS (all models)
Spark Plug Make: AC 44

Spark Plug Gap, Inch: .035

Firing Order: 153624

Timing Mark: Ball on Flywheel

Engine Idle Speed, RPM: 425

Compression Pressure & Cranking Speed: 130 min.

Voltage & Polarity: 12 volts, negative ground

[FAKKY]

Thanks.
I was always told that as long as compression not way low ..... and all within 10% of each other..... good to go.

Some other threads I saw showed 235 compression at 110 on hot motor..... so 120 and consistent looks good

I'll update with some leakdown values also once completed

[FAKKY]

#1 70/61
#2 80/70
#3 70/66
#4 70/63
#5 70/65
#6 80/70

Only reason for 80 rather than 70 2 times was trying to hold Guage and crank and hit in off at same time ......no helper today

For an unknown history engine.... seems decent.