Possible 1952 steering issue

[willyp]

Posted for a buddy working on his 52. Any incite would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much!

He writes, Since I have never driven this truck or a stock one like this…I can turn the steering wheel 2.25 turns to left and 1.75 turns to right. My questions to someone would be is that normal? I thought I had the sector gear in the steering box indexed incorrectly. I took it apart again and moved it a tooth, which did not change anything but the position of the steering wheel. If I disconnect the steering (pitman) arm from the steering linkage I can turn the wheel and box 3 turns in either direction. So, I have plenty of margin and centering with the sector and worm gear. If I jack up the front end and move the wheels by hand I can get them to travel stop to stop with and without the steering box connected. I measure all the geometry and it is symmetrical. The only thing not making sense is the difference in the number of turns of the steering wheel.

[mr48chev]

Did he by chance change or modify the steering arm on the spindle. Some hot rods that go from the factory steering arm to one of those hot rod style steering arms have the same issue as they run out of travel before they run out of turn at the wheel in one direction. usually they turn further to the right than they do to the left when that happens.

I'm thinking my truck did it a bit because I took three leaves out of the springs for a quick and nasty (and unwise) lowering job and the angle of the drag link changed drastically in the process.

[mr48chev]

One thing I didn't think about earlier. There should be a stop on each side that is bolted to the pin/bolt that holds the king pin. If someone put the wrong one on one side or left one out on the other side it wouldn't turn the same distance from center on each side.

The guy who had my front axle before I did left the stops off when he replaced the king pins and it turns too far on each side. It turns too far in each direction.

[OrrieG]

Center the tires and wheels. Center the steering box. Adjust the drag link to fit the position of the ptiman arm and connection on the tierod or kingpin?spindle arm. In a ideal world box quits turning right when the king pins hit the stops. If the pitman arm has been lengthened the box will stop before the wheel go to full turn. If it has been shortened the wheels will hit the stops before the box goes to its limit. When everything is centered position the steering wheel to right position. Usually when there is more turn to one side that means someone adjusted the drag link to center the steering wheel throwing off the centering.

[mr48chev]

I didn't think of that one as I haven't ever had to work with an adjustable drag link on one of these these trucks. Always just the stock stuff on the ones I have been around.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by willyp

Posted for a buddy working on his 52. Any incite would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much!

He writes, Since I have never driven this truck or a stock one like this…I can turn the steering wheel 2.25 turns to left and 1.75 turns to right. My questions to someone would be is that normal? I thought I had the sector gear in the steering box indexed incorrectly. I took it apart again and moved it a tooth, which did not change anything but the position of the steering wheel. If I disconnect the steering (pitman) arm from the steering linkage I can turn the wheel and box 3 turns in either direction. So, I have plenty of margin and centering with the sector and worm gear. If I jack up the front end and move the wheels by hand I can get them to travel stop to stop with and without the steering box connected. I measure all the geometry and it is symmetrical. The only thing not making sense is the difference in the number of turns of the steering wheel.

either the box is not indexed correctly or the stops are on wrong or missing.

Have him go through this link
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...51ctsm0901.htm

and make sure the stops are on and on the correct side of the axle. The king pin lock pin hold them on then check for other interference in the linkages

[willyp]

Thanks for the quick reply, there is an invaluable wealth of knowledge here. ill pass this along.

[mr48chev]

This time around I'd say it is something so simple that it got over looked in the trying to figure it out process

[willyp]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

either the box is not indexed correctly or the stops are on wrong or missing.

Have him go through this link
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...51ctsm0901.htm

and make sure the stops are on and on the correct side of the axle. The king pin lock pin hold them on then check for other interference in the linkages

thanks for the link, I noticed your in Houston. I just moved to Houston in May of 2016 from DC. Pretty good car/truck scene here, guess the weather helps.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by willyp

thanks for the link, I noticed your in Houston. I just moved to Houston in May of 2016 from DC. Pretty good car/truck scene here, guess the weather helps.

Weather is even better when your in your shorts and T shirt out barbequing in January and February.

[52ChevPU]

DWSR and WillyP, Thanks for the information...I agree something got over-looked. I reassembled it with new King Pins and worked from numerous pictures I took prior to dis-assembly. I have found other things on this truck that I thought were factory were just a prior owner's best judgement. I did a compare and stare with the assembly manual and checked for any binding...so far nothing jumps out at me and it does freely travel from stop to stop.

[dwcsr]

well if this front end was done prior to your fixes it may well have the wrong drag link on it. 47-54 are not the same as 55-59 although they look similar.
47-54 is 12"
55-59 is 15-1/2"

[52ChevPU]

OrrieG and MR48chev, Thank you for your suggestions. I did replace the tie rod (old one just slightly bent). The steering knuckles and tie rod ends appeared in good shape. No other modifications from stock (had original springs re-arched to factory at spring shop). The drag link is original but I did replace the ball stud on the pitman arm (worn to a flat spot) and rebuilt the drag link ends. I will double check the adjustment on it as you suggest. Thanks.

[52ChevPU]

Just checked, it is 12".

[dsraven]

ok, not totally up to speed on your specific truck steering linkage set up, but, in general, steering boxes have a gear set that has a slightly larger gear tooth in the middle, or wheels straight ahead position. this is to keep the steering tight at center, so the driver is not herding the truck down the road, but also making it easy for the kingpin inclination to bring the steering back to centre when coming out of a turn. like when you loosen your grip on the wheel after a turn and the steering tries to centre itself. it is critical to adjust the gear box when it is at this tight point otherwise the gears get too tight when they cross over the middle section (if adjusted off center). if the box is done right and the steering box should is centered, lock to lock, the drivers front wheel should be straight ahead and the adjustment on the tie rods adjust the passengers side wheel to get the desired toe in ,correct? it may change with different hotrodding changes, such as ride height, and that is why there are adjustable drag links etc on the market. there are stops on the steering knuckles, each side, that also need to be adjusted and lightly lubed but, unless somebody has moved them, they should be pretty close anyway.

-get the box put together properly, ensure to check for worn out gear set while you're in there. worn gears will make the box hard to adjust because the gears like to sit down in the worn out area where they have been for a long time, so the box is sloppy, then, as the adjuster is moving the gear lower into the worm to mesh tighter, the back lash suddenly gets tighter as the gears find a non worn area of contact. the contact points then have to work on a high spot. sometimes it will seem like you have to be constantly adjusting the box after and that is because they are "wearing in" to a new contact area which is not as much actual tooth contact because the contact patch is now only on the non worn high spot. also, while the box is apart, check for a worn output bushing, worn seal area on the input and output shafts, twisted pitman shaft (the output of the steering box), twisted input shaft, check to ensure you have the proper pitman arm.check the arm that comes off the steering knuckle to ensure it is shaped like it should be. steering parts are not supposed to be heated up and bent (illegal in Canada, not sure in USA) but that doesn't mean it wasn't done at some point, or maybe the truck has hit something, at some point, and that arm or the drag link is now mis-shaped. that would explain why the steering box center is off in order to get the wheels pointed the right direction.

so,

-adjust the steering box gear set at the mid point of lock to lock.-----it is good to have the wheels off the ground or have the pitman arm or drag link removed so there is no pressure on the gear set while adjusting. it is sort of a "go by feel" to get the backlash you want so if there is drag or pressure being applied from the steering linkage or from the tires being on the ground, it can skew your adjustment "feel".

-set the steering box at midpoint, lock to lock, install the steering wheel so it is also centered and tie it off there with some rope or a helper holding the steering wheel

-assemble the pitman arm and drag link as it should be. adjust the ball stud on the drag link if applicable.adjust the drag link, if it is an adjustable one. the pitman arm should be close to being in the right place on the splined pitman shaft now with the tires pointing straight ahead. if not look around to see what is different than a stock set up. is the truck lowered? is something bent? was something replaced, at some point, with a part that is not from this series of truck? has the axle shifted on the springs, is the axle bent, is there anything else that could be suspect?

- adjust the tie rod ends to get the required toe in spec.

with the steering box centered the drivers side wheel should be pointing straight ahead. assuming it is using the correct drag link for the truck, and the rest of the steering parts are correct and not bent. if it doesn't then something is not right. check out the link in Orrieg's post for the old car manuals project. it may have some info in there about how the box should look when done as well as front alignment specs.

like I said, I am not totally familiar with your truck's steering linkage and these comments are sort of generic, but hopefully SOMETHING will help you and it isn't all just a bunch of hooey.
good luck.

[52ChevPU]

dsraven, Thank you for your time in running down this process. This is the process I used to rebuild the front end and steering box. The truck was basically in original shape and I am restoring it to the same minus the 235 I substituted for the original seized-beyond-rebuild 216. The sector/worm gears were in good shape and the mesh was set as prescribed here and had the correct centering feel for wheels straight ahead. However, I will double check it to be sure.

[dsraven]

hey, no problem '52. hopefully you get it all figured out if you haven't already. I am just sitting around after surgery for a badly torn shoulder, unable to work on anything really, so I have been on the site reading the through some threads to keep busy. I did rebuild a transmission in my son in laws off road car today (a remote control car with a gearbox I could hide in my hand, haha) so that kept the dust from settling for a bit.

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by dsraven

hey, no problem '52. hopefully you get it all figured out if you haven't already. I am just sitting around after surgery for a badly torn shoulder, unable to work on anything really, so I have been on the site reading the through some threads to keep busy.\\.

Wife had surgery for a badly damaged rotor cuff and other shoulder damage. Was on the table 4 hours. Make sure you do the PT to get back full range of motion and flexibility. Hurts but worth it. Between us we have had quite a few repairs and her shoulder was the worst... Hopes yours is healing well.

[dsraven]

hey, thanks OrrieG. ya, this is rotator cuff surgery #4, the second one for my r/h shoulder. torn up pretty bad inside and had several anchors put in and also joint and bone "debridement" down far enough to make the bone bleed. anyway, you probably know what that is like already, no fun. just out of my sling so pt is pretty basic range of motion stuff. the pt says I am ahead of the game so thats good. sure am going stir crazy though.
thanks for the thoughts, hope yours are all healed up.

[dsraven]

52chev, if you disconnect the drag link and then do a centre on the steering box, lock to lock, does your steering wheel end up centred? then, if you were to connect the drag link with the wheels pointing straight ahead, would it fit right up or be out of whack? I just can't see why it would be unless something like the drag link is wrong or the steering arm bolted to the knuckle is possibly bent. it seems to me, from working on my buddies '54 a few years back, that there is basically no adjustment for centring the wheels to the steering box unless you were to find an adjustable drag link. when the box is centred and the drag link is installed it is supposed to be driver's side wheel straight ahead. am I correct on that? is the stock drag link adjustable inside those ball jointed ends with spacer shims or similar?
can you snap a pic of the set up?

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by dsraven

hey, thanks OrrieG. ya, this is rotator cuff surgery #4, the second one for my r/h shoulder. torn up pretty bad inside and had several anchors put in and also joint and bone "debridement" down far enough to make the bone bleed. anyway, you probably know what that is like already, no fun. just out of my sling so pt is pretty basic range of motion stuff. the pt says I am ahead of the game so thats good. sure am going stir crazy though.
thanks for the thoughts, hope yours are all healed up.

Sounds like my wifes surgery, she was in pretty good shape 3-4 months out, full recovery at 12 months.