62 Deluxe Heater w/Valve on heater core questions.

[63 Rat]

ClemSmith, did you do your own soldering or have a shop do it? Wondering what's involved in that, if it's something I could do myself in terms of cutting the 5/8 pipe off a new core and soldering on the fitting to accept my valve? Is it a special soldering setup? Or can it be bought and done myself?

[ClemSmith]

What I did was simple, primitive but functional and therefore unworthy of "restored" cars.
I made a U, not an H. Simply routes water from 5/8" hose, through U, back to 3/4" hose, bypass leaky core/control valve. Clamps on hoses.

If you've ever soldered leaky copper pipe in a house or old travel trailer you're qualified.

3" piece of 1/2" copper pipe, 1/2" pipe 90 degree elbow, another 3" piece of 1/2" copper pipe, second 1/2" pipe 90 degree elbow, third 3" piece of 1/2" copper pipe.

Propane torch, paste flux, clean joints, flow solder, cool. Any HomeDepot.

[Kenfuzed]

Like Clem explained soldering a few copper fittings from Home Depot is fairly straight forward, otherwise you could look for one of these U bend returns.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Elkhart-3...er-Return-Bend

[Captainfab]

Member 63 Rat is asking about soldering on his heater core to install a new valve, not bypassing his heater core.

63 Rat, I would just take both heater cores to a radiator shop and have them do it. That is what I did.

[63 Rat]

You are correct. But thanks for the advice ClemSmith and Kenfuzed. I may just try to solder it myself. I'd like to keep it original. If I can't pull it off I'll take it to a shop anyway. Most of them are asking more than what the core is costing me to do the alteration which I think is simple. I understand they need to make money so I can't fault them but I've saved so much money fixing other things myself and been able to buy more parts with the money I've saved. I got quit a bit of help here though so I'll return the favor by posting some pictures when I get it done. One other thing; if I do decide to go at it myself, can the solder on the old valve bracket be heated up to get it free from the old tank so that I can re-use it? Haven't found anywhere that sells just that bracket.

[Captainfab]

Yes you can melt the solder and remove the valve. To re-solder, make sure you get acid core solder or solid core and some flux and a brush to apply the flux. And of course a propane torch. You will also need a way to pressure test it before you install it. There are more than likely some You Tube videos that will show you how to solder.

[63 Rat]

OK, thanks so much. I really appreciate all the help. Let's see if I can pull this off.

[63 Rat]

Wow! Talk about a lucky break! Right after I posted this I came home one night and thought for the heck of it I'd punch in, and follow, a search for Harrison heater core on eBay and right there at the top of the search, closing out in 4 hours, was a NOS from someone in South Dakota. He was very vague answering my questions except that he assured me it was NOS. I wanted measurements and never got them so I took a chance because he said he'd give me a 30 day guarantee. I got it today and it is exactly the same size and configuration as mine and even has an original O-ring for the valve opening. The core is stamped a different number (3148217) but is exactly the same. Mine was stamped 3146344. Tried o do some research to find out anything about the numbers, such as if they did a re-issue or something later on, but can't find anything. Going to hook up my valve tomorrow and test it to see if it leaks or is OK but it looks brand new, never used! Fingers crossed!

[The Rocknrod]

It's always nice to see pics of NOS stuff.

[63 Rat]

Here are a couple photos of the NOS.

[63 Rat]

Well, nothing can be too simple. So, I hooked up the new heater core (after testing it and the valve with a hose). 5/8 to manifold, 3/4 to water pump. I started by having it in a bucket before putting it all back together in case there would be any unsuspected leaks or problems. Seemed fine except it wasn't heating up. I thought maybe it had something to do with the hoses being long and it being near the ground. So I cut the hoses to proper length and put it in place. After the truck was warm, I felt the core again and it wasn't getting hot. I read on here that it may have air in it and need to be bled. So I disconnected the 3/4 at the core and started the truck. Nothing coming out. Before blaming anything else I thought I'd disconnect the 5/8 and see what that was doing. Started the truck, nothing coming out of either hose. ??? Any ideas, knowledge, suggestions?
Is it the water pump or thermostat? What causes the water to go up to the core to begin with? Is it pumped up there by the water pump or is there some sort of draw created when both lines are hooked up? The only other thing I am wondering is that there is another nipple on top of the water pump that is plugged but I don't know if there is a separate chamber in the pump that would make any difference? I showed someone the picture of my hookups and they seemed to think the hose coming out of the side of the water pump was the correct configuration? 350 V8. I posted pictures. The fourth picture is of the hoses disconnected placed over a bucket but with the engine running and you can see that there is nothing coming out of them. Thanks.

[jtrichard]

Take the hose (5/8) off the top and poke a screw driver into the intake manifold make sure that is clear the pump sucks from bottom of rad. and pumps up and out the stat so you should have had flow something plugged or no coolant in RAD.

[68speedalert]

Check what trichard said to do.

There is no drawing type action required but there does have to be a complete loop: Waterpump as to have coolant around it's vanes, and coolant has to return to be pumped again. If you remove the 5/8 hose from the intake and start the engine, you HAVE to have fluid coming out (as long as there is enough coolant to cover the pump vanes.

If the vanes of the wp are gone (rusted) or spinning on it's shaft, no coolant will be pumped and I have seen it both happen.

The wp inlet is the bottom rad hose and the heater hose opening mounted to it. The output is the two connections at the engine block. Coolant flows thru the block until it reaches that upper heater hose connection and the thermostat. Thermostat stays closed while warm to force the water back thru the block, usually by going thru the heater core, Water returns to the wp via the heater hose and the cycle continues until the thermostat opens. Then coolant flows thru the radiator. The thermostat maintains the temp in the engine by slightly opening and closing constantly.

HTH

[63 Rat]

OK, thank you. Radiator is full. When I originally took the plugs out of both the manifold and the water pump, water/radiator fluid gushed out until I plugged it back up. When I got the truck years ago the heater core had been disconnected and plugs put in the manifold and water pump. Do I need to run the engine to have it come out of the water pump ?? only because it is flowing out by gravity alone when I open the bottom nipple of the pump (which is where I connected the hose)? Unless what gushed out was just a certain amount held in the water pump that would have stopped after a minute? Yesterday I ran the engine for a while and the radiator was hot but not the heater core. Also I could feel the wp hose very hot to about halfway up the hose and then cooled off like water wasn't going al the way up to the core. Does the thermostat need to open, based on heat, before water will circulate to the core? Or is it drawn/sucked up the 5/8 by the 3/4 (wp line) drawing it through? And shouldn't that happen pretty quickly? I was reading something here last night about water pumps having a suction side? Mine looks to have two plugs so is perhaps the one on top the suction and I need to connect to that instead? Here is what I read posted by chegny:

You are getting basically no water flow through the heater core. The nipple on the water pump can be used in place of a nipple at the top of the radiator tank - but not in conjunction with it.

That nipple is on the suction side of the water pump. So what you are doing is sucking water from the bottom of the heater core and trying to replace it with the steam/vapor that exists at the top of the radiator tank. Although that vapor is hot, compared to water it has little BTU value.

The area of the cooling system that heats up first and gets the hottest is at the outlets of the cylinder head cooling passages. These connect directly to the intake manifold. Also, and more importantly, is the fact that this area is on the discharge side of the water pump - consequently it is at the highest pressure. That is the reason that the inlet to the heater core is supplied from the inlet manifold.

That hose (from the intake manifold) should always be connected to the bottom of the heater core. As the coolant flows into the core it fills it from the bottom to the top (where the outlet hose is connected). This ensures that the tubes within the heater core are always full of water and any entrained air (that would impede heat transfer) is vented out along with the coolant that is headed back to the engine. :

[jtrichard]

IF you pull the 5/8 hose FROM the core end and start the engine you should get lots of flow IF not you have a problem IF you have flow then the VALVE on the heater core is not opening (YOU DID PULL THE CABLE RIGHT?)

5/8 (intake man.) is the pressure side 3/4 (water pump) is suction side ...Stat does NOT have to open to have flow in heater BUT the valve on heat core HAS to be OPEN IF heat valve is NOT open and all lines are clear BUT heat valve is closed you WILL get heat part way up the hoses from the engine

[68speedalert]

If you understand what trichard said, you don't need to read my wordy response

Originally Posted by 63 Rat

Do I need to run the engine to have it come out of the water pump ?? only because it is flowing out by gravity alone when I open the bottom nipple of the pump (which is where I connected the hose)?:

Yes. Disconnect the hose from inlet side of the heater core and leave the other end connected to the intake. Run the loose hose end into a bucket. Or use a longer hose, it won't matter. When you start it, it should look like a garden hose with the faucet on a about half. It should have some pressure and will continue to flow until the water pump runs out of water.

Originally Posted by 63 Rat

Unless what gushed out was just a certain amount held in the water pump that would have stopped after a minute? Yesterday I ran the engine for a while and the radiator was hot but not the heater core. Also I could feel the wp hose very hot to about halfway up the hose and then cooled off like water wasn't going al the way up to the core. Does the thermostat need to open, based on heat, before water will circulate to the core? Or is it drawn/sucked up the 5/8 by the 3/4 (wp line) drawing it through? :

There is a small amount of suction. The suction is not needed to make the coolant flow thru the heater core. The heater core gets flow irregardless of the thermostat. The coolant is drawn into the pump, pushed out of the two exits into the block, thru the engine block, heated by the engine, up thru the block/head passages, forward into the front of the intake manifold, stopped at the thermostat (when it's closed because the temp hasn't reached the thermo's 195 degree opening temp) out thru the intake nipple and 5/8 heater hose to the heater core, out the 3/4 side of the heater core, back to the water pump 3/4 inlet, and continue the entire time the engine is running.

Originally Posted by 63 Rat

And shouldn't that happen pretty quickly? :

The quickness is relative to how cold the coolant is when starting and how fast the engine heats up. If a thermostat is stuck open or removed, the heater hose and heater core may NEVER get warm.

[63 Rat]

OK everyone, THANK YOU, and I do mean thank you very sincerely for all of your help and advice with this. I was looking forward to getting home tonight and hoping there would be more posts to help me figure this out.
Last night, I had done what jtrichard suggested. That is where I got the picture of the tubes in the bucket. But first I had disconnected them, engine running, one at a time at the core to try both ways to see if I was getting any flow or circulation through the core. Nothing. Valve definitely in the open position. Then I ran the engine with both hoses disconnected over the bucket to see if anything was coming out of either hose and still nothing. I just hooked the hoses back up, left the valve in the open position and left it for another time. Earlier today I disconnected the hose from the water pump and water gushed out non-stop so no blockage there.
So, guess what happened! I drove home tonight and it's a bit chilly so my windshield was fogging up so I thought I'd just turn on the fan, which I usually do to blow some air through the defrost vents to try to clear the fog a little even though it is cold air. I reached up to feel if air was coming out. I had put a towel over the fan opening inside the heater box because as long as I had all the heater box apart I figured I'd clean out the cowl of pine needles and such. I didn't want anything to fall into the fan while I was working on all this. I didn't want to pull over and deal with taking the towel out so I figured I'd get a little air but it would be impeded by the towel covering the fan. So I felt with my hand by the defrost vents by the windshield and some air was coming out. Was I imagining it or was it warm? I pulled over and opened the hood and the core was hot as hell. So I removed the towel, put the core back into place and turned on the air in the cab and it was like a furnace!
I guess the truck just needed to be driven to clear air in the system or provoke circulation or...? I had it idling yesterday for a long time while I was trying to test and trouble shoot everything but never actually drove it. Assuming, like with all my cars, even just idling until the engine got hot that the core would heat up. At any rate, I have heat! No leaks so far. I don't even have the gaskets on, or the rest of the heater box put together because I didn't want to paint and go through all that unless I was successful.
I would love to be educated on what anyone thinks might have happened? But again, everyone here has been very helpful and you all helped me put the pieces of the puzzle together. Hopefully my 'discovery' will help someone in the future? And I truly hope no one feels like I wasted their time. I'm glad I found this website.