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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: TRAVERSE CITY, MICHIGAN
Posts: 6
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numbers matching? original engine?
So my 69 C10 with 350 is a little tired and having carb issues. I am considering rebuilding or going crate/LS swap. I think if it is original numbers matching and salvageable, It would be better to rebuild the 350 this winter....if not, I would likely move to LS with FI as I want a really reliable daily!
The photo is from a year or so ago...I have new HEI, Q-jet, alternator and many other replaced parts! What do you guys think? |
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#2 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: huntington beach ca
Posts: 341
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
keep og
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 2,188
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
There are no numbers to match on these trucks, such as a vin stamped in the block. The best you could do is a date code that precedes when the truck was built.
It's always good to hang onto the original parts if you have the room. Barring that, these trucks don't have a consistent collectible value based on originality. Cheyenne Super pickups command a good price, but I've seen bagged customs take home more dollars than beautiful BB Short Fleets. |
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#4 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Victoria, B.C
Posts: 3,794
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Well...this is a big question.
Is any of this based on 'budget restrictions'?....and just what is the ultimate goal?....modern driveability?....reliability?.....power?.....(noting that everyone says yes to all of those...lol) The LS is a very popular swap with a lot of great results....but by the time you buy the engine, trans, harness...and the seemingly endless amount of stuff needed to install it, hook it up to the heater, linkages, fans, rads, etc, etc....you are into some heavy money unless you happen to own a late model chevy wrecking yard. Regardless, I would hang onto that original motor and simply either 'shelve it' for now...or rebuild it over the winter. In the meantime you can always get a crate engine and hit the road very quickly with that installation. my two bits. Coley
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....for some men, there is experience, skill and effort....for the others...there is visa and UPS LOL 1966 Chevy 1/2 ton (Florida- Red/white) 1972 Chevy 1/2 ton (California- Blue/white) 2005 Chevy Silverado HD2500/Duramax 2000 Dodge Ram 1500 Last edited by Coley; 06-24-2017 at 11:08 AM. |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Larkspur, Colorado
Posts: 916
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
If you would like to avoid the labor/time and expense of the LS consider a pre-'96 TBI small block. You will gain all of the same reliability of the LS for considerably less time and money. The swap will become much more of a bolt in. Because of the age slightly more difficult to locate a good swap candidate but there are tons of them out there. The downside is you lose the extra power and economy of the LS.
Steve weim55 Colorado |
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#6 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 3,708
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
If you have a new Q-jet how can you be having carb issues? My truck was running like crap until I put a new remanufactured Quadrajet on it, now it runs great. Let's see an up-to-date picture.
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 64
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
My two cents is it all depends on your time and budget. If you have the time and money I personally think an ls swap is the way to go. I plan on doing that to mine but like Coley said it's alot of parts and could get pretty expensive quick if you decide to go that route. I know myself even if you have a budget in mind for the swap your going to upgrade things that you didn't plan on in the first place
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1972 Cheyenne Super SB Stepside |
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indanapolis, IN
Posts: 604
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Early 90s tbi truck engines were horrible. I'd keep a carbed engine over one of those any day.
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#9 |
Who Changed This?
![]() Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 10,403
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
I'd just rebuild that one. Tons less money than many other options, and you have all the brackets and such in-hand already! I considered going to an LS in my truck, but I'd never get my money back in what's left of my lifetime (I expect maybe 20 more years) with the increased fuel mileage. I'll just rebuild the 402 that's in it now- depending on cylinder condition- it has been bored once, already.
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~Steven '70 Chevy 3/4T Longhorn CST 402/400/3.56 Custom Camper Simi Valley, CA |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: East Tn (In the heart of the Smoky Mtns)
Posts: 1,869
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
While the statement,"Trucks didn't come from the factory with numbers matching components" is true, there is some pride in being able to say that everything in your truck is original. These trucks are getting older and "All Original" trucks are becoming increasingly scarce.
To me, restoring means to refurbish/refinish a vehicle with the original components, or other factory prices from another. Simply buying new parts of lesser quality is not restoring. If you own the truck, do what you want to make it the ideal truck, but refrain from using the statement "All Original", like the big auction places like to. |
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#11 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 7,912
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
While I agree that "all original" does sound cool, what does it really mean? If you're rebuilding the engine, then the only things that are likely to be original are the block, crank, maybe the heads and rods. What about things like tires, brake pads, glass, etc. My point is that vehicles don't stay all original if they're driven.
Build the truck you want. But as an alternative to the LS swap, you might consider the L31 Vortec. Your brackets and accessories should bolt in place, and you get a roller cam, the best-flowing heads GM put on a Gen I SBC, a rear main seal, and great reliability. The swap is going to be simpler than an LS swap - you'll need an intake (different bolt pattern), mellonized gear for your distributor, and most likely an electric fuel pump. And you can always stick the original engine in a corner of the garage in case you decide you want to put it back in some day.
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I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson |
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midland, TX
Posts: 1,267
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Here's my very reliable ZZ4 with FIRST TPI coupled to a 700r4. It now has over 11k miles and gets driven regularly and returns around 17mpg at 70mph.
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1969 RS/SS Z10 Camaro Pace coupe 1972 GMC Short Step buildhttp://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post6356218 1979 Mazda RX7 1979 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 & 1979 Pontiac Trans Am 10th Anniversary 1999 Honda Valkyrie 2006 Corvette Z06 2010 BMW 650i |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bisbee, arizona
Posts: 1,529
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Looking at some of the "interpretations" of what defines origonal clearly; it is not understood.
Your truck is not origonal, and it will never be origonal again. It probably would cost way too much to restore it back to "correct" condition But be carefull about make choices based on what ever definition is stated above about what difines origonal. You wont find a part number or vin number on every nut bolt and washer but major components like starters, alternators carbs and distributors, differentials,transmissions , rims and the like have part numbers,casting numbers or dates codes that identify what the part is, and when it was made. That is matched to the equipment spid document attached to the glovebox door. origonal trucks will also have origonal hardware and other detail parts that came on the truck when new and remain on the truck currently and if your truck is a matching numbers truck then it does add considerable value in some markets where others look for those qualities and characteristics. One only has to look at the market for a corvette to understand the numbers matching game and how the two markets are so different that there is no real comparison. Ditto for Chevelle and camaro's. Numbers matching , in a given market, absolutely matters. but when compared to a custom vehicle valued in a different market, apples and oranges. Its rediculous to compare an origonal numbers matching truck to a custom truck. in terms of value. Apples and oranges. I bought my origonal numbers matching truck for just south of 10K. A custom truck, something you threw 75K into, will certainly be worth more simply because it cost astronomically more. to buy and or to build. origonal trucks dont have to be built so there is none of that Labor cost either, And even when you take a financial hit it will most likely sell for more. But in terms of cost in real dollars and as a percent of your initial investment, you will take a greater hit. the reality is, there are two different markets. and increasing the value of a truck by simply bolting expensive parts on it, well yes its going to increase the value of that or any truck, but once you broke the bank will you ever see anything like your initial investment. probably not. to say that they dont have a consistant collectable value based on origonality... well I guess thats true, Not consistant at all. they keep going up in value, so no, there is no consistancy in the value in that respect. very few custom trucks increase in value. and be carefull of the fraud that goes on to increase the value of a vehicle, that is not a true and accurate reflection of a vehicles value. maybe ego. If your custom truck see's alot of magazine space then maybe...maybe.. in a few generations it will recover its value. Origonal trucks are cheaper too and hold thier value better and longer. even when factoring in downs in the market or inflation. and were not talking about restored trucks, thats a different market too. Apples and oranges again Thats just my opinion but its based upon alot of facts and truth's. But remember its apples and oranges, go check out the Corvette market I had a carb issue and an ignition issue and every other type of issue in one of my trucks, pretty much all went away when i replaced a rusty dirty old fuel tank, blew alot of mud out of the lines too. Last edited by mike16; 07-11-2017 at 01:31 AM. |
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#14 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ca. <-> Ma.
Posts: 5,709
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
I personally believe that
Original trucks with their original equipment Will be sought after the most In the future As these trucks become more and more collected. Especially desirable models! Look at the other markets mentioned above, Corvette, Camaro, Chevelle. ORIGINALITY MATTERS There is no guaranteed way to tell numbers matching engine The closest you will get is by Checking casting #s and dates on back of block by distributor hole But To me just importantly is the stamp on front tab of block Just in front of head on passenger side Here is a great resource on thishttp://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-engine...ngs.php#suffix Read it if you care, when you are buying for originality That with general knowledge/feeling of what original looks like Should get you pretty confident if it is authentic or not |
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#15 |
Special Order
![]() ![]() Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mt Airy, MD
Posts: 85,859
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Actually, the number on the block does match to the vehicle, just not by VIN. The engine in my '72 K2500 Sierra is correct original numbers matching. It's numbers state that it is an engine for a '72 K20/K2500 350 4bbl automatic. That is specifically what my truck is and that engine has matching numbers. It's not the original engine to the truck. It came out of a '72 K/20 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 350 4bbl automatic. All this means is trucks are easier to regain a correct numbers matching truck than the cars. But it still isn't all that easy, once gone, and it does matter to many of us true 67-72 truck lovers.
It is so annoying to keep reading over and over again that people want to plop an LS motor in to have a "reliable" ride. This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. The Chevy small block has always been regarded as one of the best engines ever! Yep, a better reputation than the big block and tons more proof in the pudding than any LS. They were used in everything and anything. Used in what they came in, they propelled these trucks into the future for you younger folks to buy and drive. I have driven them the entire time and one reason I did is because these trucks are dead reliable like forever. Never been left on the side of the road with something I couldn't fix when something did go up. Yeah, now GM designed the next best thing to propel their stuff as well as others into the future, same as it's predecessor. But, that doesn't render the SBC unreliable or anything less that great!
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
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#16 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ca. <-> Ma.
Posts: 5,709
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
All true
The chevy 350 small block is one of the best designed engines ever But There is another difference of the ones from our era And The Ls engines of today About 200k miles Reliably 100k on ours,before a rebuild Reliably 300k on today's , before you throw it away Back then the trucks outlasted the engines Today the engines outlast the trucks I myself would not do an Ls swap Or Even if I see a Very desirable fully restored truck That has an Ls swap, I pass over it I like originality But On the other hand If I was younger and had a budget to have one truck That I would use all the time And I found one that wasn't so high optioned from the factory I see the allure to that engine |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lincoln City DE
Posts: 1,292
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Numbers , Smumbers . The only place to find a complete vin on these is the tag and the spid, otherwise all you can do is "period correct" which I believe is what a lot on here consider original. IMHO the beauty of building one is DO WHAT YOU LIKE unless you're in it to make money.If thats the case, are you really a truck lover ?
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#18 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Port Murray, NJ
Posts: 147
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
"Correct numbers matching" can be misleading in that a block dated 1974 in a 1970 vehicle is not really "correct" as the date numbers do not match.
The date should also fall within a couple weeks prior to the vehicle build date for it to truly be "correct". Either way, one should buy based on what they like and prefer rather than what the resale will be. The market is too fluctuating to bank on and the return not as lucrative as say a Corvette or Camaro. |
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#19 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: 2nd left past the stump on a dirt road.
Posts: 2,629
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
If you looking to keep a 350 original it is much less expensive to do so. Updates, Modifications, Aftermarket products all cost much more than you think. Add your time and labor to that and it gets the financial clock rolling real good.
My truck has an old soul and keeps ticking. Granted its no trailer queen, does not win drag races, nor impress the ladies. I do not want it to do that, It fricken WORKS. Must of the public eye does not see that. I do all my maintenance, and do it religiously. I am in the process of doing a transmission flush to keep it lively. These older rigs like fresh oil and all fluids. Almost all the parts are re-buildable or easily replaceable. It cost 850 bucks for a fuel pump in an 01 GT Mustang for my girlfriend. My fuel pump replacement cost 25 bucks and 1/2 hour. Do the math ahead of time. My girlfriend was in shock! |
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#20 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: cincy
Posts: 693
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Quote:
This is what I want to do to my truck. Can you tell me what all is involved in this install. Thanks
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There's something women like about a pick-up man 1967 c10 swb Stepside 2004 SSR 2013 Silverado swb |
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#21 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ca. <-> Ma.
Posts: 5,709
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Quote:
An original Cheyenne Super or maybe a Highlander And DO WHAT YOU LIKE with it? I think a truck lover, might leave it original! Not to make money But Because he loves trucks However, It's America We all can do what we want with our trucks To each his own My belief is Since we are all on this site talking about them We Are most likely ALL Trucks Lovers |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lincoln City DE
Posts: 1,292
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
I'm a schmuck so hard to say . just kidding . Im a lover , I would do what i want but never spoil the integrity of a truck by chopping it up,
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#23 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 602
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
I'm literally disappointed every time I see a truck with an LS swap. Muscle cars for that matter too. In cars that never came with V8's? Sure. But these thing came with small and big blocks from the factory so you cant up the cool factor by much. Better mileage? Eh. More power? Higher up than you'd like. My two cents. If you want to strap a turbo on it and make 600 HP as cheap and easily as possible go for the swap, otherwise freshen that thing up, give it a nice cam, maybe some heads and Bob's your uncle.
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1968 C-10 Suburban - Original 396/TH400 2002 Transam WS6 - M6 - Black/Black - Evil Garage Queen 2000 Silverado - DD - Small lift+Body lift+35" Duratracs+4.88's + Eaton TruTrac - Monster Truck 2010 Cadillac CTS Wagon Sport - Wife's DD and the only classy car we have. |
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#24 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ca. <-> Ma.
Posts: 5,709
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
Quote:
You could do what you want with it😀 Some guys (myself included) Will just have to get used to Loving Their period correct trucks Since There is NO GUARANTEE of numbers matching |
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lincoln City DE
Posts: 1,292
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Re: numbers matching? original engine?
I love em all from showroom floor correct to custom builds. wouldn't it be a drag if we were all the same ?
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