Issues with restored trucks

[bubbasimms]

Wondering what the general consensus is on restored, modified or rebuilt trucks and how they drive or issues with drive ability you have experienced in your projects.

I am rebuilding a base model 69 short stepside. I have the chassis rebuilt with 71 front crossmember and rear end giving me front disc brakes and power steering. Leaning towards replacing the inline six and 3 Ott with a take out LS and Auto Trans. I have a Blazer tank in the rear and I have done drop spindles, bags and bolt in notch, shock relocating brackets etc. I have mounted the tank on top of the frame to keep it from hanging down so low. I need to raise the bed floor a bit anyway to clear the rear pumpkin so I figured a couple more inches wouldn't hurt to clear the tank. I want it to look good but still ride and drive good. I want it to be my daily driver for the most part.

I have driven many restored and rebuilt vehicles, and all of them seem to have issues. Small issues such as wing windows that are too tight due to new rubbers or power steering that doesn't work at idle, or won't self center coming out of a turn. Weird quirks, thumps, bumps, rattles and squeeks seem to abound in all of them. Some of them shade tree built, some not and some with much larger issues.

The old stepside drove so nice and smooth before with the oil burning six, power nothing, the worn out everything and the saggy springs, I hate to loose that during the rebuild. Obviously the more you change the more issues there are to iron out, but how does everyone enjoy there rebuilt, stock or modified, rides?

[harpo231]

They are machines , there will likely always be something , gives them character !

[truckster]

My wife has a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. It's quiet, comfortable, gets pretty decent mileage...

...and it's boring. Oh, and it cost me over $3000 in just parts when the brakes went out.

I'll keep my Blazer. I'd rather have fun than feel pampered.

[bubbasimms]

Let's not miss the point here. Ive always driven character over quality. I drove an old fj-40 Land cruiser with a small block in it for 10 years and an old Z-71 gmt400 for another 10 years. I'm 45 and have owned only about 5 vehicles as my daily drivers. I'm well aware of character and issues with old vehicles. My question is why do restored vehicles never seem to function as smoothly as an unrestored rig, regardless of how clapped out they are, within reason obviously. Just making conversation and wondering out loud if anyone has completely rebuilt an old rig that functions 100 percent.

[harpo231]

Just once a 51 chevy l6 tott 6 volt

[Coley]

Well there is a reason that I'm not a big fan or proponent of 'frame off' restorations.....and as a result, notice their 'issues' popping up a lot within the 'restored truck' group.
That way I see it, with a frame off restoration you are essentially dealing with often (not always) a first time build.....so, to me.... this runs the risk of being like 'apprentice day' on the assembly line.
It seems that is why so many things often don't fit, or go wrong or are missing, backwards, incorrect, etc.
Basically, if GM said that your truck was the first day 'assembly training truck' for our new line employees.....you might think twice and wait for one built a couple of months into the general assembly experience...lol.
Again....to me, there is something about trying to keep the original truck intact, rolling and driving nice without having to resort to that...hence I'm a fan of the 'rolling restoration' crowd.

....my two bits.
Coley

[Chevyland]

They are only original once

There Is a reason to that statement

Most any truck that I have had that is original (and taken care of)
Drives, feels better than any truck I have had that has been restored

Nearly every part on these trucks was built better 45-50 yerars ago than now
They were built to last; and they did

I wonder what a restored truck now with all mostly repop parts would look like
After
40-50 years of normal use ( not being garaged all of the time)
Probably not as good as the original one after 80 years

On An unrestored truck there aren’t any rattles squeaks etc.
the doors shut easy
The windows roll up right
The paint is better etc etc

That’s not to say top notch restorations are not as good

But for me, I would take an original truck
Or
One with an old respray
Any day
Over a frame off restoration

[Chevyland]

But

You can not always find the exact truck you want

So

Restoration is necessary

[saxart]

Originally Posted by Coley

....a first time build runs the risk of being like 'apprentice day' on the assembly line.

THIS!!!!

I think many times "rebuilt" trucks are rushed, or cheaped out on. Also, seems every time I do a rebuild of anything, I end up doing 1/3 of it again to get it "right". Skip that last 1/3, and you have a nice shiny POS that doesn't run right and has issues up the wazoo.

Combine this with some parts being "modified" (but not tested/proven) and you get a $h*t-show...

[B. W.]

I believe it comes down to the quality of the build. Quality takes time, time is money. Everything I've built has always had "shakedown" issues for the first couple of runs, after that they just go.
I feel it's important to get something right before moving on (You're tired of working on the drive train & you really want to start on the body). If you don't get everything "dialed in" as you go then you end up with a lot of issues after the build is finished (but it wasn't really finished!)

[dfwright]

If issues like "wing windows that are too tight due to new rubbers" is of note, then every car I've ever known, factory new, used, or restored has "issues." I've never had a 100% perfect vehicle that didn't have some minor thing or another that could be classified as an issue.

When my truck was new, it had a points distributor and a PCS system. The issues both of these items introduced are gone now, and the engine starts and runs better than new. The sway bar it never had before makes it more stable in turns. I could go on.

In my admittedly very limited experience with restorations, (Or I guess, Resto-mod, if you prefer) you can end up with a vehicle with less issues than when you started.

[bubbasimms]

This is good, that's what I'm talking about. These old trucks are so simple....yet so difficult to re create, even with all top notch parts. Must be something magical going on at the Generals house.

[palallin]

I figure the smart engineers at GM knew what they were doing, and I really don't see much need to try to reinvent it.

[clay68c10]

If you do it right the first time, with good parts, you will end up with a nice driving "gone thru" truck. If you half-fast anything, it will drive accordingly.

Case in point, my current resurrection project was my first vehicle and I did some typical young guy work on it. It's been funny looking at the work I did then, vs how I would do it now as a professional mechanic. This time around it will be a nice driving, quick, and RELIABLE truck.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

My only fear is the body and moldings. It didn't have the moldings. "First time on the assembly line", but I should have good help. Once the carb. is dialed in, hopefully no issues, or so is the plan..............Ha! Yeah right, see what happens. At least it's not a mod.

These are pretty simple builds and that's a big bonus. Imagine restoring a loaded 2017 Cadillac.

[Perpendicular]

My thoughts - as someone that does drive them only in sunny weather if they are that nice - TIME and COMMITMENT.

I have done simple clean ups to full frame off's in my years. I am by no means an expert and learn something from this forum every time I look but they are all the same in that they have lots of issues unless someone truly completed the project.

You can by a truck that is freshly done, perfect looking and exactly what you want. They are out there. The difference, to me, is are they done as opposed to finished.

Done, you made it what you wanted it to look like

Finished, you made it what you wanted it to look like then you worked through all the bugs, kinks, issues, etc. You drove it around the block to find things wrong and brought it back and fixed them. You drove it to work and then fixed what you found. You basically sorted out all the issues and made it a reliable truck and didn't just stop because YOU were done with the project. Whenever you find something that isn't right you fixed it instead of thinking you can live with it.

Lets face it, these are old trucks. I am not an expert assembly person that has to put on 1000 screws into the headlight ring a day and therefore all are at the same torque. But, if I continue with the project after the build and dial in all the problems that need tended to, it can and will be just as reliable and enjoyable to me for the long haul.

Anyway, that is how I view restored vehicles. Many vehicles are not completed, just made to be what the restorer thought was a stopping point. They can be incredible driving and enjoyable for many years, if you put in the work to complete.

-Paul

[LockDoc]

-
Mine is a ‘67 Panel Truck but for the sake of this thread everything is the same.

First off I have to say that I am an old school guy from the word GO, and I have been working on old cars & trucks for 57 years….

The Panel Truck was highly modified and most of the bodywork was done when I purchased it, but that didn’t bother me in the least. Front clip welded and molded, front and rear rolled pans, louvered hood, Frenched antenna on the right rear corner, Frenched tail lights with the reverse lights removed, and A CUT DASH!!!… OMG …

It came without an engine/trans so I decided to continue with the mods and install a modified LS1/4l60e combo. It was actually the best choice I could have made. That thing runs so sweet, starts like you flipped an electric switch, gets 24 mpg on the highway, and has so far been pretty much trouble free. Also, if you kick that thing in the butt you better be hanging on because it will set you back in the seat, even in that big old boat….

I do almost all of my own work and there is a bonus to that. If you have trouble on the road you have some idea of where to start looking for the problem. I modified my own stock LS wire loom and that is part of the bonus. I have had a couple of small glitches and was able to fix both of them on the side of the road. I can understand not wanting to use 20 year old original wire looms and in that case my recommendation would be to go ahead and study the online instructions for modifying the wire loom so you know where each component is for your engine, what it does, and how it interacts with other components in the system. That will help you troubleshoot any problems you may encounter.

As far as handling, it has what I “think” is a 2” front, 3”rear drop, Again, done when I bought it, and with springs. The thing that improved driveability the most is when I added the stock type front sway bar. It improved cornering and quick lane changes 200%.

It drives nice enough that my wife actually enjoys driving it....

LockDoc

[Alex V.]

It's true, a vehicle is never the same as it was in the form it rolled off the line in. I believe it is possible to get one back very close, without annoying quirks or problems - it just takes a substantial amount of time and perseverance after most call it "finished" to get it just so.

[franken]

They drive as well, and are as reliable as the rebuilder/restorer built them. Expect some initial problems and they should then become reliable. I've built basket case Harleys that were reliable for 15 years after a few hiccups. I've never rebuilt a 4 wheeled vehicle, just repairs while rolling.

[In The Ten Ring]

I would much rather buy an original, unrepaired, rusty truck than a frame-off restoration using unknown methods, skill, paint, and parts.

I am OCD but most people are not. I will pay extra for NOS or proper welding repairs, other guys may not.

I do not want a new crate engine and auto tranny...I want the original six or 8 cylinder and the original manual tranny.

[72chevynut]

I’ve got a good 72 K20 daily driver that I built out of extra parts I had laying around. Fortunate that’s all I tinker with is the 68-72 c/k series. I started with a 72 k20 bare frame and went from there, no mods from factory design just simple build. It took about 6 weeks to do during the evenings and it turned out very well with no issues. I believe the key to my success was using year correct OEM good used parts with no modifications. I’ve got buddies that always want to improve, change, modify or think bigger than original, then they run into problems. Weeks, months and years go by at times with no success or they lose interest in them. That’s okay because we are all different and we should do what we like with our projects. Guess I’m unsophisticated, simple or just lazy, really don’t see much need in changing these cool trucks. Oh I may swap in a simple HEI distributor or add a small lift kit but that’s about all. My ole truck still gets a lot of attention, and that’s really what we all like! It’s also nice being able to run to local parts store for normal maintenance stuff such as brakes, ujoints, gaskets, filters, etc... The much younger than my truck, parts store clerks can normally find these parts much easier in thier computers. Lol

As far as restoration, I do the same thing except clean, rebuild and paint. Makes for a quicker more pleasurable experience. Leave the mods for the experienced professionals that have all the extra cool tools and funding.

[Zeroman]

Our truck "Leroy" was not "an original" when he was purchased as my son's first vehicle 19 years ago. Far from it.

That being said, when it came came time for a makeover, I knew I wanted to take it down to the frame. Not only to make sure it was a solid build, but also to improve the truck with modern technology.

I get the "keep it original" if the truck was purchased with not a thing changed, but who would not want improve upon the engineering of the 60s and 70s.

I have done everything myself except for the metalwork, body work, and paint with the advice of many people including many from this board. Without their help Leroy would not be what he is today.

3 1/2 years of blood, sweat, tears, and money, and I am very pleased with the results.

Still not done...they never really are, are they?

The improvements include modern suspension..tubular front control arms, drop springs/shocks front and rear, front and rear sway bars, rear shock relocators, adjustable panhard bar, added power steering. All of these improvements have made Leroy safer and easier to drive.

In the braking system...front disc brakes, added brake booster, performance pads and shoes. Again, safer and easier to drive.

In the engine/transmission department I stayed "old school" with a 350/350TH set up as this was the power train we transplanted into Leroy 17 years ago as a stock 258hp crate motor and rebuilt transmission. We did opt for the HEI distributor back then because it is so simple to deal with. With an Edlebrock 600cfm electric choke sitting on top, Leroy cranks and runs every time.

Of course, we moved the gas tank to the rear, and routed the filler tube to the left rear side marker. Leroy is a short step side, so it was fairly simple.

In the electrical department a Painless Wiring harness was installed 17 years ago and still provides fantastic reliability and safety. We did this after seeing a 67-72 burning up on the side of the freeway one day.....not a pretty sight. I also used Weather Pack connectors on all of the lighting connections for ease of installation and removal.

Upgraded LED side markers/turn signals, and upgraded headlights, again are brighter and safer. The side markers operate as turn signals just like modern vehicles. Again, added safety.

I did opt for the one piece windows..a change that most do not care for, but I like the fact that the lack of wing windows reduces the chances of someone breaking in.

I have implemented improvements during Leroy's build that I believe enhance drive-ability and safety while not going overboard on cosmetic changes.

In regards to "issues" regarding older vehicles, there have always been problems with new vehicles even in the 60s and 70s. Manufacturing processes and quality control were nowhere near modern day levels. Vehicles were not perfect then, and some are not perfect now. As was pointed out they are mechanical in nature and there will be mechanical failures.

In the end just remember your truck is "your truck". Do what you want, and what you can afford.

[mike16]

well it would be nice if some people understood and recognised what it really meant to have a restored vehicle. No more BS about day two and foolishness like that. or the junk with more chrome than a 58 Biuke.

and all that nonsense about putting a vehicle on the forum and irritating people by qualifying thier intentions by insisting if not outright demanding that others not critique it. And then going on to offend or insult people who do anyway

And I ask everyone in general and a few members mentioned above... if a restored vehicle is so bad in so many ways... why describe a vehicle you are trying to sell as restored when it is so clearly not. If a restored vehicle is so bad or looked down upon, then why do so many people claim thier vehicle is restored, and ask rediculous money , for one that is so clearly not.

and aint it kinda funny when we dont dare to critique another members "fully restored" vehicle just because they are a member here.

Just a bit curious about that.

[davischevy]

I have done a frame off on almost everything I own and have owned.

The key to avoiding problems is patience. I have put a lot of miles on some of my builds, with the same issues any vehicle will give.

As LockDoc said, the biggest improvements you can make to one of these trucks is a sway bar and closer ratio steering box.

I love LS engines, and admire the people that go to the trouble to install one, but I will probably never do one because I can work on an original truck with simple tools and I understand them.

I don't do air ride because you add an entire system to the truck that has to be maintained. I lower with springs and spindles to keep it simple.

I drive my Longhorn every day and the only mod it has is 700R transmission.

I finished the frame off on the 72 in the picture in 1989. After a shakedown run, it has given no trouble related to the restoration. I have driven it over 30,000 miles since it was restored. I would not hesitate to get in either truck, and leave within the next hour for the coast.

I have 67 SWB in the shop, dismantled and ready for a frame off restoration.

On the other hand I went to look at a 72 short bed a while back and it was beautiful to look at. It ran terrible, drove terrible, and broke down on the test drive. A friend bought it worked on it the entire time he had it, sold it, and almost got sued.

I love them all. It's your truck, build it how you want, but again, Patience is the key to restoring a vehicle.

[72 tigger]

^ What Larry said- do them right & they're just as good as GM built them