'63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread

[argonaut]

Chris, glad to hear that it finally went together (especially after 3 rear mainshaft bearings )
This will help when I embark on the nv4500 swap someday.
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[Captainfab]

Thanks for posting this thread Chris. This will come in handy should I need to open up mine.

[1985-GMC]

Awesome truck! Subd
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['63GENIII]

Thanks everyone for the compliments and input on the build. Shifting keeps getting better with every drive so I think that the new parts are starting to seat. This was a pretty easy rebuild and I'm no master mechanic by any means. Definitely gratifying to say that I did it myself and it actually works!

Thanks again! Chris

[farmero]

I am currently rebuilding my NV4500 for my 93 GMC stake body truck. This is a great thread you put together. I too wasted 2 new rear mainshaft bearings while making mistakes putting it together. Lesson Learned. With my trans I could find NO way to take the mainshaft out once it is setting in the trans with the bearing on. Twice I destroyed that bearing so I could get the shaft out of the trans. First time was a slider incorrectly installed and the second time the reverse slider slid forward and jammed into the gear. I has just enough room to slide off the teeth of the gear and jam. Right now I still need the snap ring for fifth gear so I can finish putting it together. Thanks.

[Richard2112]

Excellent read. This will be one of the primary references I use as I step through my first NV4500 rebuild. The pics are great so as I do my own rebuild I will document the progress and when finished, hopefully I can add a thread as helpful as this one has been. Oh, and that is a bad ass truck.

['63GENIII]

Thanks Richard. That build seemed so long ago.

Looking back, I wish I could have added much more info and way more pics but you get the point. The 4500 is something that you can do do in your garage with a little research and a few special tools. The book really helped a lot as well even though it was more geared (no pun intended) toward the Dodge units.

[SunSoaked]

Great thread.

It makes me wonder if the newer (pre-95) low geared versions can be "upgraded" to the post 95 version. Maybe not so much swapping the first gear but the syncro's for 1st & Reverse? And something about the shift fork pads being better in the later one?

Mike

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Great thread.

It makes me wonder if the newer (pre-95) low geared versions can be "upgraded" to the post 95 version. Maybe not so much swapping the first gear but the syncro's for 1st & Reverse? And something about the shift fork pads being better in the later one?

Mike

You know Mike, I am by no means an expert with these thing. The little bit that I have learned has been trial and error (more empha$i$ on the error part), asking questions and looking through catalogs / parts books. That said, take what I say with a grain or more of salt.

I had looked into the idea of swapping the 1st gear for the later higher gear and was told that 1st and reverse could not be retrofitted into the earlier case. I too really like the idea of the syncro reverse as I always seem to be trying to get into reverse before Ive fully stopped going forward.

To the question on the 1st gear syncros - I believe that the early and later 1st gears are physically different sizes than each other. My experience with 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears is that they have "dogs" for (lack of proper terminology) that the syncros keep pace with and lead the adjoining gear into alignment as shifting takes place. I don't remember if 1st gear had these "dogs" and Im almost positive that reverse does not. What I do remember is that the ring of dogs or teeth seemed proportional to each gear in the cluster.

To get to the point about the 1st gear is that since the early and late 1st gears are not interchangeable, and the early ones likely don't have the "dogs" manufactured onto them, I don't think that the syncros can be used from the later trans in the older versions.

As far as the later shift tower being swapped onto an older unit, I have heard about that being done. I met a guy who worked for a large truck repair company building transmissions. He converted the shifters on the early units to the later ones on the side for a extra cash. The little bit that I learned from him was that the newer square tower had a better design than the early ball and socket that could wear letting the shift stub "sink" into the case a little giving the shift a "notchy" or dragging feel.

The shift pads as I recall did look pretty chintzy though. The looked like a thin plastic corner protector for a piece of glass or something. If I hadnt seen them come out of my transmission, I would have thrown them out as packaging

If you do find that the 1st and rev syncros can be swapped, by all means, post back here. At this point, if I ever get a crack at an affordable later trans, I will go that route. I do like the 4500, its strength, smooth shifts and oh yeah the OD. Syncro reverse and a higher syncro'd 1st gear is just extra icing on the awesome cake that I already have though.

[Richard2112]

Hey Chris, were you able to use your main shaft and counter shaft? I think my m/s is useful (doesn't really look bad) and my c/s might also be usable but it shows wear at the end, where the fifth gear rides. Maybe it's ok, but I'm not sure about it.

['63GENIII]

Hey Richard, yes I reused both in mine. Are you talking about the countershaft where the larger gear of the 5th gear set rides? TBH, I don't really remember looking that hard at that part of the CS. I do remember checking endplay on the CS but that was about it. I think at the time, I was more worried about the 3rd gear cluster, syncros and the 5th gear nut which I later found out wasnt much of an issue with the 2wd transmissions.

You have a picture of the CS area that you're concerned about?

[SunSoaked]

Recently picked up a 93 4wd minus engine. Gave the guy 300 for it just to pull the 4500. This will be my second 93 4500. After getting the trans out and salvaging the truck, I pulled the drain plug to see.....black gear oil....confirmed by the smell. Well, I planned on going through it anyway, now it will be required. Duh! Some people 😥

[Richard2112]

Here's a couple of images that show what I'm referring to. I want to believe it's normal wear and that I can use my c/s. But I really don't know. Trying to work within a budget but might have blown that idea by ordering a premium rebuild kit from quad 4x4. Still, the logic is that if I can barely afford to do it once, then I can't afford to do it twice. So if I have to get a new c/s I will but not really lookin' forward to it.

[IMG][/IMG]

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by Richard2112

Here's a couple of images that show what I'm referring to. I want to believe it's normal wear and that I can use my c/s. But I really don't know. Trying to work within a budget but might have blown that idea by ordering a premium rebuild kit from quad 4x4. Still, the logic is that if I can barely afford to do it once, then I can't afford to do it twice. So if I have to get a new c/s I will but not really lookin' forward to it.

[IMG][/IMG]

Ya know, Id be really reluctant to say one way or the other. I think before I made any decision on it, Id take the CS and the 5th gear to a machinist and get an inside and outside mic on it. That would tell you what the clearance is anyway. Then maybe look up what the correct tolerance is supposed to be.

TBH, I have no recollection what mine looked like.

With the absence of a bearing there, Im going to make the assumption (and it is an assumption) that the area you're concerned about either has very little movement (the gear spins at the same speed or close to the same speed) or very little pressure that it's subject to.

Id still get measurements to be sure. It would probably be cheaper than buying a new CS

[Brad54]

One question I have--and it may have been answered but I missed it--will this trans bolt to our stock bellhousings?

Specifically, will it bolt to the truck bell with the side mount ears for '60-'62 trucks?

-Brad

[SunSoaked]

No, you will need a 4500 housing or aftermarket housing with the correct side front output.

[dieseldude4bt]

Originally Posted by Brad54

One question I have--and it may have been answered but I missed it--will this trans bolt to our stock bellhousings?

Specifically, will it bolt to the truck bell with the side mount ears for '60-'62 trucks?

-Brad

It can be done but you need a dodge gas engine 1 1/8 input and an adapter plate http://www.advanceadapters.com/produ...ter-plate-kit/.

[Richard2112]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Ya know, Id be really reluctant to say one way or the other. I think before I made any decision on it, Id take the CS and the 5th gear to a machinist and get an inside and outside mic on it. That would tell you what the clearance is anyway. Then maybe look up what the correct tolerance is supposed to be.

TBH, I have no recollection what mine looked like.

With the absence of a bearing there, Im going to make the assumption (and it is an assumption) that the area you're concerned about either has very little movement (the gear spins at the same speed or close to the same speed) or very little pressure that it's subject to.

Id still get measurements to be sure. It would probably be cheaper than buying a new CS

Thank you for the advice. I'll have the clearances checked, then see if I can find the specs you're referring to. I know there must be a tolerance detail somewhere, but that sorta information is like finding hens teeth.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by dieseldude4bt

It can be done but you need a dodge gas engine 1 1/8 input and an adapter plate http://www.advanceadapters.com/produ...ter-plate-kit/.

Hmmm. Learn something new everyday. More than one way to skin that cat! I ended up getting the AA BH for the early Chevy to 4500. Hydraulic clutch still but on the "normal" side. Took a little bit of grinding on the inner / upper part of the BH to clear the taller pressure plate Im running. So far it works well ..... which means I guess I don't notice it being there

I did mess around with a few scattershields and the idea of running the factory BH that came with the 4500 but in the end, a couple of side jobs and my laziness won out and I bought the AA unit.

[dieseldude4bt]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Hmmm. Learn something new everyday. More than one way to skin that cat! I ended up getting the AA BH for the early Chevy to 4500. Hydraulic clutch still but on the "normal" side. Took a little bit of grinding on the inner / upper part of the BH to clear the taller pressure plate Im running. So far it works well ..... which means I guess I don't notice it being there

I did mess around with a few scattershields and the idea of running the factory BH that came with the 4500 but in the end, a couple of side jobs and my laziness won out and I bought the AA unit.

It only works with the latter chevy NV4500 that will except the dodge 1 1/8 shaft or the Dodge gas engine NV4500.

[Orange Crate]

There are a few more details here for rebuilding an NV4500 if anyone is interested. It is my next big project but I ain't got no moneys so all I can do is research....

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94...formation.html