55.2-59 8.8 Ford Explorer rear end question/advice/dodge Dakota

[Missyblue]

Hello hoping for clarification and advice as I'm reading conflicting comments in the threads Im finding

I have a TF 57 GMC that I'm planning a mustang ii front that will supposedly drop me 6 inches or so so planning to flip the rear axle and do the axle over the springs to level out my tail end. Questions that I have that I'm finding mixed commentary

1.Do you have to tub with the flipped axle?
the 8.8 is 59.75 inches and therefore over 2 inches smaller than my current axle at 62 correct? so some claim you have to tub and others say you dont> currently looking under there I maybe have approximately 2 inches between my tires and the bed so seems Ill be rubbing possibly? Im not planning a wide rear tire keeping all 4 the same for now at the stock 235/75/15.

2. If too tight are there other options to help fit? wheel offset?

3. The shaft is 3 1/4 inches so doesn't fit standard flip kits u-bolts? what do you all do about that?

4. will I need to c-notch the axle for everything to fit?

These are the big ones. Trying to decide if this is the right fit or need to try to find a wider axle. around here seems to be pretty slim pickings on the old suggested stuff. Even explorers aren't that easy to come by.

Also may have access to a dodge Dakota that is 61 inches and might be a good deal as its in low miles and good shape. I know there used to be a guy that made kits to use the front out of them but am not finding too much on the rear so any ideas are appreciated. would solve the 3 1/4 problem and maybe the rub problem...


thanks much appreciated. Excited to start shopping for parts for this project and research has my head spinning haha

[mr48chev]

The early Dakotas were an odd 6 lug (actually the same pattern as the Vipers) I think the later ones are 5 on 4-1/2 and if you haven't bought the MII front end yet you could order 5 on 4-1/2 on the front and just run Ford/Mopar pattern wheels.

It really sucks that he quit making the kits as I have all of the 92 Dakota front suspension and rack sitting out here and a pair of Dodge Van 5 on 5-1/2 large rotors in the shed and could run one of my Ford truck 9 inches without changing the lug pattern on the axles. That was the plan.

Now we work on your plan:

Do you have a specific set of wheels already bought that dictate the lug pattern?

What gear ratio in going to match up with your transmission (and tire diameter) of choice to give the best allaround performance?

Width? Are you up to doing mini tubs if the bargan rear is too narrow or is it better to spend a few bucks and get a rear that is a better width?

There is no saving in a cheap rear axle that you end up having to rework to do what you might buy one to fit with few mods and be done.

Axle tube diameter isn't a huge thing but that means either hunting a kit that will work or buying special U bolts if you run leaf springs.

[dsraven]

if you want to run the ford axle and it turns out to be too narrow you can use wheel spacers and longer studs or get a different offset on the wheels, they would be a deeper dish. some guys like that. the axle flanges can be redrilled for the chevy pattern as well but the drums/rotors would also need drilling. that way you get the same wheels and studs/nuts as the front end which is usually a chevy car pattern with smaller studs/nuts. maybe the MII could be ordered with the same pattern and wheel stud size as the ford 8.8 you're looking at. ensure the rotors are then available over the counter at a parts store, like find out what they would be from. special order rotors would be spendy every time you need brakes otherwise.
measure the wheel mounting flange on each axle, original and any donors, with the brake drums/rotors installed. I usually use a piece of angle iron bolted up tight on to the wheel mounting flanges, one on each side, and use a tape measure between them to get the actual width. not relying on someone else's eyeball that way. the 8.8 explorer axle is offset but if that bothers you there is one from a mustang that is centered. not sure about the dodge or if there is a possibility you could get or want front rotors to match a dodge pattern.
there are a number of possibilities for the MII front end, which one are you looking at? some drop the truck quite a bit, especially with drop spindles as well.
if you drop the front end a bunch you will likely need a c notch in the rear. check ogres build thread to see what he has done.
here is a pic of my c notch. it is flat bar. the frame is also boxed front to rear so the notch part is well supported on both sides. you could do that as well but only box the affected area. anything more than about 3" will get the frame pretty skinny above the axle so if you plan to carry anything much that may be an issue. this frame has not been bumped up above the notch, it is stock in that area so the box floor is not affected. use a good bump stop, a beehive urethane style from a s10 or newer style 1/2 ton would work well possibly. they are cone shaped and hollow so they could provide some cushion affect before completely bottoming out. some stops are pretty thin so not much cushion. the stops on the rear of my 03 avalanche were only about 1/2" from touching the pad they bottom on and it rode fine even pulling a boat.
https://picclick.com/OEM-Axle-Bump-S...492760423.html

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

The early Dakotas were an odd 6 lug (actually the same pattern as the Vipers) I think the later ones are 5 on 4-1/2 and if you haven't bought the MII front end yet you could order 5 on 4-1/2 on the front and just run Ford/Mopar pattern wheels.

It really sucks that he quit making the kits as I have all of the 92 Dakota front suspension and rack sitting out here and a pair of Dodge Van 5 on 5-1/2 large rotors in the shed and could run one of my Ford truck 9 inches without changing the lug pattern on the axles. That was the plan.

Yeah I was super bummed had the industrial chassis info saved and was working on my plan. Mechanic found me an awesome deal on a Dakota chassis so I could use from and rear thank goodness I went to check the site before I bought and saw he stopped making the kit. I contacted him and he said to have my mechanic buy his plans but Im afraid that isn't going to happen on my end. Sorry you have all the stuff that is a huge bummer.

Originally Posted by mr48chev

Now we work on your plan:

Do you have a specific set of wheels already bought that dictate the lug pattern?

So as you well know the plans seem to change like the wind haha or plan creep as my mechanic says. But all for the better in the long run I believe. And while Im saving money to move forward planning is all I can do haha...so originally I wanted to use my stock rims but that has changed so I'm flexible. I have chosen a mustang ii that is build by a local company fulltiltstreetrods.com I was happy to find a local company and upon meeting with him he was a super gracious and helpful guy and offered to be helpful with us trying to do this ourselves so I feel better about that than some long distance thing. But because I have choosen him he only does the 5 x 4.5 lug pattern so I'm going that route with rims I think. Not sure I want to redrill axles and rotors hence my curiosity of the ford 8.8 and the dakota claims the 1987-1990 with the 15 inch rotor package has a 61" axle and 5 x4.5 which would be great. might solve my too narrow and would match the front pattern.

Originally Posted by mr48chev

What gear ratio in going to match up with your transmission (and tire diameter) of choice to give the best allaround performance?

planning a 700r4 and have no tires yet so not set. hoping for decent power and mileage since she will be driven a bit. I haven figured out the dakota gearing yet now that I think about it.......

Originally Posted by mr48chev

Width? Are you up to doing mini tubs if the bargan rear is too narrow or is it better to spend a few bucks and get a rear that is a better width?

I really rather find the right rear option vs tubing. The Dakota rear I don't know cost on yet but I feel good about because its a lower mile vehicle and my mechanic is the one parting out the vehicle so he can look it over vs me picking something myself. Only problem Im waiting on vin to see if its the correct one. very small amount of years that are correct. Im guessing thats part of the lack of popularity in his kit maybe??

Originally Posted by mr48chev

There is no saving in a cheap rear axle that you end up having to rework to do what you might buy one to fit with few mods and be done.

And yes I am trying my best to get answers so I don't mess up. super tight budget so prefer no oops $500 mistakes haha

thanks so much for your advice. Much appreciated!!

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

if you want to run the ford axle and it turns out to be too narrow you can use wheel spacers and longer studs or get a different offset on the wheels, they would be a deeper dish. some guys like that. the axle flanges can be redrilled for the chevy pattern as well but the drums/rotors would also need drilling. that way you get the same wheels and studs/nuts as the front end which is usually a chevy car pattern with smaller studs/nuts. maybe the MII could be ordered with the same pattern and wheel stud size as the ford 8.8 you're looking at. ensure the rotors are then available over the counter at a parts store, like find out what they would be from. special order rotors would be spendy every time you need brakes otherwise.

thank you I will look into the wheel spacer/stud option. Im planning matching rims so I can be silly and practical on my non-practical truck and rotate my tires haha..and Ill definitely check out the rotors for parts too thanks for the suggestion.

Originally Posted by dsraven

the 8.8 explorer axle is offset but if that bothers you there is one from a mustang that is centered.

This was my other question I forgot. Some say it doesn't need centered and some says it does doing the cut 7 from one 4 from the other side and flip kinda thing. I haven't located a local mustang yet and only 2 explorers in the last year so might need to go elsewhere but I was wondering if I was going to have to change the offset of the explorer 8.8???

Originally Posted by dsraven

not sure about the dodge or if there is a possibility you could get or want front rotors to match a dodge pattern.
there are a number of possibilities for the MII front end, which one are you looking at? some drop the truck quite a bit, especially with drop spindles as well.

Im thinking ill use fulltiltstreetrods.com hub to hub mustang ii kit which Is a 5x4.5 pattern. He's local and has videos and great instructions and offers local support which will be essential and amazing I think. He was very helpful and will be a great resource so makes me feel good plus my mechanic trusts his stuff. And I would just be doing the coil spring version which he claims drops 6 inches. I wasn't so worried about dropping the truck but seems thats what you get with the mustang ii.

Originally Posted by dsraven

if you drop the front end a bunch you will likely need a c notch in the rear. check ogres build thread to see what he has done.
here is a pic of my c notch. it is flat bar. the frame is also boxed front to rear so the notch part is well supported on both sides. you could do that as well but only box the affected area. anything more than about 3" will get the frame pretty skinny above the axle so if you plan to carry anything much that may be an issue. this frame has not been bumped up above the notch, it is stock in that area so the box floor is not affected. use a good bump stop, a beehive urethane style from a s10 or newer style 1/2 ton would work well possibly. they are cone shaped and hollow so they could provide some cushion affect before completely bottoming out. some stops are pretty thin so not much cushion. the stops on the rear of my 03 avalanche were only about 1/2" from touching the pad they bottom on and it rode fine even pulling a boat.
https://picclick.com/OEM-Axle-Bump-S...492760423.html

Thanks for the photos I guess the c-notch doesn't look so bad I just see some extreme ones maybe more for front end that I wasn't excited to consider. And I definitely will look into the bump stop as I have not heard of/researched that before and have no clue haha. This is a crazy learning project but loving it!

So grateful for your time and help!!!

[73kay]

Wow he stopped making the kit? I bought it and still have every thing ready to go. Just finishing my shop first. Dang. Super nice guy to talk to.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by 73kay

Wow he stopped making the kit? I bought it and still have every thing ready to go. Just finishing my shop first. Dang. Super nice guy to talk to.

yeah super bummed but he did. said he's moved on to other things

[jweb]

I used an 8.8 on my '51, I know your '57 is different but I had similar concerns.
I used a set of hub centric 1" adapters. It's a good way to dial in the width and get the 5x4.75 bolt pattern for the wheels I already had.

You can get them custom made any width you need
http://www.motorsport-tech.com/hub_rings.html

[dsraven]

if you don't want to drop the truck a bunch make sure to get the non dropped spindles. less of a C notch, like the pics I posted, will be required if the front end isn't dropped so the truck sits a little higher. an important thing to do is decide how much drop you want and ask the installer if that is possible. factor in the tire size you will go with as well because that becomes important to the front end installer due to the sloped rear section of the front fender wheel opening. when the truck is lowered over the front wheels the tires look like they get closer to the rear of the wheel opening due to the tapering rear part. it is common to move the front axle center line forward some to compensate for that but to get it to look proper the installer will need to have the wheels/tires you want to end up with so he can mock it up or if he has done a few he may know how much to alter the axle center by the tire size you want to run. also decide the rake angle you want (the "down at the front" angle) because the front end gets installed so the lower control arms sit level to the ground side to side and fore to aft. if the rake angle isn't like you want it and the front end is welded in then the front end alignment will be tough to get right if at all possible.
you gotta do the math on the ground clearance thing with any new suspension. figure out the suspension travel from sitting at ride height, the amount the suspension will travel upwards at the wheel, and subtract that amount from the rocker ground clearance. remember some places have pretty big speed bumps. I seen a corvette going over one the other day and it sounded like it cost him money by the scraping noise and the look on the driver's face.
the offset diff section isn't a big deal if you have the space for the driveline. the important thing is to ensure that the axle is sitting at 90 degrees to the driveline so the ujoints work properly. placing the axle at 90 degrees to the frame is not good enough, it must be checked to ensure it is 90 degrees to the engine/trans/driveshaft. some drivelines are not quite parallel to the frame. a u joint can take up some slack but the angles need to be the same on the front and rear which is hard to accomplish if the axle is not square with the driveline.
the 5x4.5 pattern is a typical ford wheel pattern so explorer axles would be the same pattern as the front wheels.