Windshield Rant-Questions

[Super_Dave]

Well, my build has hit a number of snags in the past couple of months. I will do a more in-depth update in the build thread, however, for now, I need to address my windshield issue.

The guys who did the "body work" on my '74 cut the OEM windshield seal out with a razor blade. So, I ordered a replacement seal from Precision (WCR-848) and the corresponding Black Locking Strip (WLS-466).

Since my windshield had a couple of stars from rocks, and the tint along the top had faded to a dark tan color. . . I decided to replace the glass. Ordering from anyone out of state, costs around $114 for the glass and anywhere from another $125-$215 to ship it. . . so I would be buying the equivalent of (3) windshields.

I find a local shop that can get a windshield from PGW (wholesale who will not even talk to you unless you are a glass shop or body shop) and my cost is $86. When it arrives, it is a full .100" thinner than factory glass. They order a second one from another wholesaler. . . same thing; .100" thinner.

After three aborted attempts by the installer to install it anyway, it's a no go. After several days and countless hours of calling, every single company I talked to said thicker glass is no longer manufactured ANYWHERE and the market is flooded with thinner Chinese glass.

So now I am looking for a shop that will repair the 'stars' and install the old windshield. Every glass shop in a 50 mile radius refuses to install the old glass for a host of reasons (excuses) such as:

"Do you still have the old seal?"
-- (me) "No, they cut it out."
"Too bad. I only install glass with the old seal. Precision ALWAYS leaks."
-- (me) "So you won't install my windshield?"
"No. Not without the old seal."
_________________________

"We don't do anything older than 1990."
_________________________

"We might be able to install it. . . for $250 labor." (mind you, NO PARTS!)
_________________________

"We will install for $330.56 on Monday next week."
-- Receive a text message "we won't work on a truck that old."
_________________________

"I am 20 minutes away from the warehouse. I will check availability and call you right back with a quote."
-- It was 10:00 AM. At 5:05 PM still no call back.
_________________________

Several "local" glass shops, using local phone numbers and addresses, end up going to some asinine call center that "redirects" the call to a glass shop of their choosing. This seems to be the new 21st Century Business Model. I lost count on how many "local" glass shops I called that went to call centers halfway across the country.

When I call LMC, Brothers, PGW, Classic Industries, etc... and ask about how thick their glass is, the conversation comes to an abrupt halt. You can't even get them to measure it for you before laying out hundreds of dollars.

So, as best I can tell, if I want OEM thickness glass, I will have to find a good used windshield. Otherwise, I need to settle for glass that is only .185" thick. Then I need to install it myself, as todays glass shops want to only install glass that uses tube adhesives and no rubber seals.

1. Am I the only one who has run into this issue?
2. Is it true that no companies manufacture OEM thickness windshields?
3. Do you get the run-around from glass shops in your area like I am getting?
4. Is there a glass fairy people use, who only supplies to $100,000 builds?

[TKCR]

Maybe this will help:
https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...99&postcount=5

[peabobble]

Check out http://www.deepellumautoglass.com/ They have always been helpful for me on older glass. I had some similar issues with stiff gaskets and glass that wasn't right. They knew what I needed and fixed me up on the glass. I didn't ask about the gasket, I was just too ignorant at the time to know that wasn't how it was supposed to be. I haven't used them for my square, but they know their stuff.

[Super_Dave]

Thanks for the responses.

The seal I can deal with. What I really need is the correct thickness of glass. I would find it hard to believe that shops that do six figure automotive restorations for points, would put in some of the toilet paper thin glass that's being sold today. Talk about major point deductions - especially after going all in on a restoration. The thin Chinese glass cannot use the OEM specifications labeling on their glass, so it would be a huge neon sign for the judges.

We are talking about going from .300" thick to .190" thick. That's unacceptable in my book.

[Super_Dave]

I just got this reply from Precision Rubber regarding a list of glass manufacturers who may produce OEM thickness glass. I had noticed a sticker on the windshield of the squarebody truck they used to demo their seal replacement, which said: DW00847 GBNPPG.
_______________

"We cannot recommend any particular glass supplier, this would be a conflict of interest for Precision as each of the manufacturers are also our customers.

We also do not have access to specific glass thickness from any one brand."

I never asked for a recommended supplier. I wanted to know if ANY supplier produces OEM thickness, given they purchased glass and make the seals to fit.

So, apparently OEM glass thickness is a closely guarded secret. Unless you are part of the Fraternity of Glass Munchkins and know the secret handshake, you will never know who, if anyone, makes OEM thickness windshields.

[D13]

Laminated safety glass is made from 3 layers - inner glass, outer glass, and the PVB inner. The PVB is pretty much a standard thickness. The glass layers are the key. The glass sheet is floated, cut, heated and bent, then the layers are assembled.

The glass thickness is controlled at the float. Only a few standard thicknesses are floated, and then the manufacturer decides which thicknesses they will use for the application. In the last 10 years the available thicknesses have condensed and gotten thinner. We used to do a 7mm thick windshield, now the thickest anyone makes is 5.4mm, and 5.0mm is the standard. So the glass fab probably cannot afford a custom thickness run, so you gets what they give.

As far as these specific trucks, I think they were 'light weighted' in the 1980-82 time frame and that may have included thinner windshields to go with the thinner door glass. Either way, the only way to get an 'original' thickness glass is to get an 'original' used windshield. And most of those have been replaced at some point - so it's kind of a crap shoot.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by D13

Laminated safety glass is made from 3 layers - inner glass, outer glass, and the PVB inner. The PVB is pretty much a standard thickness. The glass layers are the key. The glass sheet is floated, cut, heated and bent, then the layers are assembled.

The glass thickness is controlled at the float. Only a few standard thicknesses are floated, and then the manufacturer decides which thicknesses they will use for the application. In the last 10 years the available thicknesses have condensed and gotten thinner. We used to do a 7mm thick windshield, now the thickest anyone makes is 5.4mm, and 5.0mm is the standard. So the glass fab probably cannot afford a custom thickness run, so you gets what they give.

As far as these specific trucks, I think they were 'light weighted' in the 1980-82 time frame and that may have included thinner windshields to go with the thinner door glass. Either way, the only way to get an 'original' thickness glass is to get an 'original' used windshield. And most of those have been replaced at some point - so it's kind of a crap shoot.

Good info. Appreciate it.

I have a shop coming out on Monday. "Said" they have OEM thickness with the antenna in the glass. We shall see.

Either way, it will be the new or old glass in the truck so I can get it to the exhaust shop and on to repairing the extensive damage that the body and paint guys caused. . . but that's a story for the build thread.

[Justins76]

Is thinner glass a safety issue? I would think thicker would be stronger.

[xrcr]

It cost me 200.00 to get my old OEM glass put in and I had the seal and the lock. I think I'm in the wrong Bidness..... Good Luck!

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by Justins76

Is thinner glass a safety issue? I would think thicker would be stronger.

It depends on who you talk to.

I know that with my OEM glass right next to the thin aftermarket glass, everything is thinner in the import version. You can see a distinct difference on the thickness of the glass as well as the PVB membrane layer. They cut corners everywhere they can.

The windshield is supposed to be a main safety component in the even of a roll over or other types of accidents. I can only assume that thinner glass means reduced safety.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by xrcr

It cost me 200.00 to get my old OEM glass put in and I had the seal and the lock. I think I'm in the wrong Bidness..... Good Luck!

Well, the shop scheduled for Monday priced out the parts and labor at $250.00 so we will see who ands what actually shows up.

A skilled installer should be able to pop a windshield in the truck in well under an hour. Especially in a truck that is freshly painted and needs ZERO cleaning or prep of the pinch welds.

[pitterpat]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

Well, the shop scheduled for Monday priced out the parts and labor at $250.00 so we will see who ands what actually shows up.

A skilled installer should be able to pop a windshield in the truck in well under an hour. Especially in a truck that is freshly painted and needs ZERO cleaning or prep of the pinch welds.

Dave, maybe it is the way you come across to the installers/ glass companies. From the statement above it is as you are telling them how to do their job and how long it should take. Like the CL ads which say "shouldn't take over 2 hrs to do xxxxjob. We're paying $xx/xxx for the job'" Then they can't understand why they can't get anyone to do the job or people say they'll come out and do it but don't show up.

[DPowers]

Just got one installed in my '87 w/radio antenna from a local guy. $150.00 installed with original rubber. Came to my work and did it.

[stanski]

Can't you make up for the thinner glass by adding a bead of urethane to the rubber then trimming off the excess once cured?

[Super_Dave]

Well... today didn't go well.

Glass guy showed up. I asked him how long he's been do glass. "12 years." He proceeds to put my Precision seal on the pinch weld.

I told him it would be "bigger" than the opening and he would need to compress it to fit so it would account for shrinking over time.

He ends up with a 6+ high spot at the base of the pinch weld and tries to force it down. I tell him "that's not going to work. Do you have some glass cleaner you can spray in the seal channel so it will slide along the pinch weld. He grabs the glass cleaner and, after some work, manages to get the seal onto the pinch weld. . . but really big gaps in the corners.

"Don't you think you should now compress the seal into the corners so the glass will go in easier?" He says "no, the locking strip will take care of that."

45 minutes later, he can't get the seal to come around the top two corners. So, he gives up and says "I want to do a top down install" and removes the windshield. With the glass out I say again "I really think you need to compress the seal into the corners as much as possible, so the front edge of the seal can come out over the glass easier..."

Nope. Gonna prove me wrong. So he gets the glass 3/4 installed and has the passenger side lower corner to set as well as 2/3 of the bottom... just past the antenna connector. As he's working the bottom from the drivers side toward the middle, he's pulling on the seal with his ball end tool and slapping the windshield with his left hand.

I see small shards of glass popping off the leading edge of the glass as he pulls and pry's with the hook tool and figure that's a bunch of weak spots being created that will eventually crack when I hit a good bump. He keeps slapping with his hand... then it happens: "boom, shattered windshield!"

He tries to blame the Precision Seal and I tell him "it's not the seal. You didn't compress the seal into the corners enough to stretch out the channel!"

All the pounding in the world isn't going to force the glass behind the leading edge of the seal. PERIOD. He asked where the old gasket was and I tell him "it was cut out." He asks "why?" I tell him "because it was old and cracked. It's not the seal... it's the installer." I don't usually tell a person how to do their job, but some people just need to try and prove you wrong.

He get's on the phone to his manager to ask what to do. They decide to come out tomorrow with a couple helpers to get a second windshield installed. Hope they bring two or three. . . it appears they will need them.

[Jaysonb]

I have used pgw windshields on the last 4 or 5 trucks that I've built, I can get them from my paint and body supply store for about $43, and they always have one in stock. When we put the windshield in "Dads79gmc" I took the time to show Mike how to install it, and it only took about 25 minutes, and we had a new precision seal. I have had trouble fighting with the super stiff seals you get from lmc, but a new precision seal, and new glass you can't go wrong.

[SunSoaked]

Well it's not rocket science. Buy the glass and do it yourself. I did, it wasn't that difficult. YouTube

[Super_Dave]

Glass is in.
Small scratch from the hook tool.
Time will tell what will happen.
Now to schedule welding in exhaust from headers to the Flowmasters.

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by Super_Dave

Now to schedule welding in exhaust from headers to the Flowmasters.

You can do that too! I literally just finished mine last night. Just waiting on a couple band clamps from Summit. No YouTube needed for this.

[69GMC910]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

You can do that too! I literally just finished mine last night. Just waiting on a couple band clamps from Summit. No YouTube needed for this.

That looks awesome! 2.5”?

[SunSoaked]

Yes, 2.5.
It takes time getting it tight on the passenger side to clear the T-case and stay above the frame but very doable. Used a universal kit from Summit Racing. I'm impressed with the quality.

[Super_Dave]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

You can do that too! I literally just finished mine last night. Just waiting on a couple band clamps from Summit. No YouTube needed for this.

Looked into it, but I need to route around the relocated gas tank in the back, so I decided against it.