55.2-59 When to buy engine?

[Bigt94550]

Hi everyone.
I have a subjective question and looking for general advice. I have a 57 chevy 3100 frame off in progress. Chassis is done. I just finished the cab rust repairs and put 3 coats of epoxy primer on it. Bed sides and fenders are in epoxy as well. Doors need rust repairs on inner panels. Hood and front fenders are straight but need paint prep and get in epoxy. Then all body could go together. My wife asked if I am ready to buy the engine and trans. I really don't know. What would be a typical path of reassembly to driving from the point I am at? I also need to sort out the fuel tank relocation.
Sometimes I feel I am close, then start looking at the to do list and think it will never get finished.
Thanks
Troy

[Black_Sheep]

I prefer to have an engine during the mock up phase to avoid having to make alterations on finished components

[gigamanx]

I second Black_Sheep. When you're ready to do fitment on suspension and start running any kind of lines, best to have the engine and trans available for mockup and to put weight on the suspension when dialing in the front end. Doing things like steering are best left for when headers are installed. Headers require an engine first

I'd say for sure, if you're at the core support mounting and radiator phase, the engine should already be in and positioned. I also liked working on the transmission cross member without the cab in the way.

[mr48chev]

I think that they pretty well hit it. The engine for my truck has been sitting on an engine stand in the garage for several years because my friend gave it to me. Still what was once a real nice engine may need some work after it has sat so long.

When you get to the point where you start fitting things up you need the engine and trans. If the body work on the cab needs several months before you are ready for the engine it might be prudent to wait especially if it is a crate motor. Still if you are going crate motor watch the deals for the best deal and buy when you get the best deal.

[dsraven]

the guys are pretty dead on, again.
if you have a bunch of time left before the engine will actually be fired up to move the truck you might consider buying a cheap used engine from the classified ads. even a complete core engine from a wreck or a core supply company that has no chance of running. core supply companies often buy engines from wrecks and sell to engine rebuilders etc. the extra attached stuff can be added pretty cheap sometimes because they have no use for it all, alt, ps pump and brackets etc etc. when done sell the core and even if it was a slight loss it would be better than having a brand new engine sitting between the rails running out it's warranty and getting covered in bodywork dust. that will give you the physical size and weight and allow fitment of all the peripheral stuff. then, when the times comes, purchase the new engine that will be used in the truck and install between all the nice clean set up stuff. when done send the truck for paint, that way there is less chance of a possible scratch while the engine install is happening.
if buying a new engine for the set up before you are close to finished the warranty could be over by the time you actually get to use the truck. check warranty fine print as well because some places will say the engine needs to be installed by a certified mechanic and some other items, like water pump, will also need to be replaced. documentation will be your friend in these cases.
if buying a used engine for the final then make sure to get one that you can hear running and possibly driving. do a cold and hot oil pressure test and a compression test (dry and wet). a leak down test could be advisable as well. pulling a valve cover off will also tell a good story as per maintenance and checking the spark plugs when they are removed for the compression test will tell how the engine has been running lately, tune wise, and also maintenance wise. a look inside the rad at the coolant will be the tell to see what the state of the cooling system has been. a rusty looking cooling system will mean the engine block will also be rusty and possibly partially full of sediment. core plugs will be thin as well since they rust from the back side.
just a thought
what engine/trans combo will you be using anyway? sometimes buying an insurance write off will yield all the stuff you need to make a used engine a good runner in your truck, then sell or scrap the remains. some actually come out ahead on these deals by selling the good parts they don't need.

[jwhotrod]

the question as was said has to do with what engine you are using. A GM crate motor generally comes with a 2 year warrantee that starts at purchase. That is why I chose to use a Styrofoam P-ayer long block LS mockup for fitment and engine mounts rather than buy the engine long before startup. if you are using a Tremec trans, their policy allows you to start the warrantee up to 2 years after purchase. If you are using an automatic you can most likely convince your friendly neighborhood trans guy to let you use a junk empty case for setup as well. Good Luck

[Bigt94550]

Thanks everyone. I was planning on using a crate 350 or 383 with a 700r4. The warranty time run off was a minor concern.

[mongocanfly]

if you can find a junk engine/trans you could use that for mock up...theyre plentiful around here..

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

if you can find a junk engine/trans you could use that for mock up...theyre plentiful around here..

It doesn't have to be a complete engine either, buddy of mine who built hot rods for years had a junk block with junk miss matched heads and a old cast iron intake on it held together with about ten bolts with an old set of valve covers on it that he used as his fit up engine for years with three or four empty transmission cases with tail shafts on a rack outside that he could grab to use to match the trans of choice.

Check around to see if any of your buds have a junk block or engine and maybe check with a local trans shop to see if they have a junk 700R4 Case you can talk them out of explaining that you need one to do the mock up with. You might have to pay a bit for a tail shaft housing but pieces for a mockup set should be cheap if not free and easy to find.

Those plastic engine and trans mockup pieces are cute but that is a lot of money to spend and never be able to recover on something that you will probably only use once.

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by jwhotrod

the question as was said has to do with what engine you are using. A GM crate motor generally comes with a 2 year warranty that starts at purchase. That is why I chose to use a Styrofoam P-ayer long block LS mockup for fitment and engine mounts rather than buy the engine long before startup. if you are using a Tremec trans, their policy allows you to start the warrantee up to 2 years after purchase. If you are using an automatic you can most likely convince your friendly neighborhood trans guy to let you use a junk empty case for setup as well. Good Luck

Recently went round and round with GM performance and warranty issue. After much complaining (and threatening to post the crappy warranty policy) it was magically was changed. GM now says said my warranty on a brand new crate began at the final installation date. They wanted to see odometer readings and final shop bill with date. One of the only good things about buying from a local GM dealer and having it installed by a "reputable" shop (not).

BTW GM is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get a hold of and now I know why.

I now question where these engines are actually made or assembled

I cannot recommend anything with a chrome package ( engine comes ready to install but chrome parts like timing and valve covers require removal of stock parts to use them. Hard to impossible to install without LEAKs!!.

If i have a second lifetime i'd buy a whole, low mileage, wrecked truck with a nice LS engine and tranny package and save myself 5-15K!!!

[dsraven]

yeah, I hear you vintovka, warranty with GM is a hard issue, thats why I said earlier to get the crate engine last just before paint so the warranty will last longer. also read the fine print on who can install and there is paperwork to go with it to get the warranty registered.
like said, a wreck is a beautiful thing to buy because you get a complete running drive line and a bunch of other stuff you may be able to use. sell what you don't use, then sell the drive line after if it's not what you want. you got to use it for the whole mock up and maybe even keep it as a runner if you are just building a cruiser thats not a fire breathing, tire smokin alcohol addict, lol.

that's my 2 cents, got change?

[vintovka]

Forgot to add, unless your rich and have a reliable non druggie mechanic best to do it yourself. And start before you are too damn old and have skin that bruises or bleeds just walking by sharp objects.

Yes woulda coulda had i known what i know now. Life is too short and the learning curve is sometimes to steep.

[jwhotrod]

thru the years we have purchased at least 8 zz4 crate motors from GM and have never had an issue with the engines or the GM high performance dealer we purchased thru. and I will purchase my next crate motor (LS3) the same way. The only way I would buy a take out from a wreck is if I could hear it run before I took it. I have had too much history with junk yard parts to do that again. I don't need to purchase somebody elses problems.

[vintovka]

The problem i see with buying engine last is that its kinda like bass-akwards for most one off home builders. In hindsight i wish i had completed all the mechanical stuff first and did the paint later. In reality only the firewall paint seems an issue. Now 3 years into mine and a) still haven't resolved all the mechanical issues and b) its taking its toll on the paint.
In my next life, no more shiny paint BTW. 100% AF Blue "rhino liner" would be great and somewhat worry free.

On the happy side its absolutely nice to just drive to the little beach town PO Box and get so many honks. waves and complements on my poor efforts. Makes the all pain worthwhile.

[dsraven]

what I meant by "buy the engine last" was use a mock up engine for weight and size etc, then buy the new crate engine last, before paint, so the warranty period will be of the most use. no use to buy the engine and let the warranty run out before the project is ready for start up. mu opinion only.
what I meant by a wreck is an insurance write off that was obviously running when it was in a wreck. not a roll over or a flood vehicle if you plan to use the engine. you can use the drive line for mock up and sell the rest then use the engine as a runner if it is a gooder or use it for mock up purposes only then sell it as a core when done. sell the wreck as a hulk to somebody looking for parts. done that several times and never lose money on them. usually double what I pay for the hulk but not factoring in any labor either. plus end up with the parts I need, removed by myself so nothing is busted or torched off by the "yard guy" at the wrecker.

jwhotrod, I have been in the same boat as you over the years with guys that want me to install their "good, warranteed wrecking yard beauty". so, install and find out it was sitting on a shelf for 5 years previous and it burns oil like a freight train, the frost plugs leak, the oil seals leak etc etc. warranty will only replace the used engine with another used engine and they (wrecker) hope for the best this time around. no skin off their knuckles. no labor covered so the owner pays twice. I even had one delivered by a customer for install that was seized up! wow, good quality control there!
when I replace engines for guys and they want used I buy from a reputable wrecker I know goes through lots of product, tracks the date the unit was bought from insurance auction, gets compression, oil pressure readings etc, and have never had a problem with their stuff. when you walk in the door you hear impact guns going, not hammers and torches. you know when you go into some places that you can buy a light or a bumper, a fender or some other body panel but an engine or trans is maybe better purchased somewhere else.
I have installed many crate engines over the years and really had a trouble free relationship with them overall. a small percentage of issues.

[dsraven]

engine after paint usually means some sorta paint issue unless all your helpers are on the same page as you and even then accidents happen. a belt buckle, zipper or button rubs a fender, an elbow dents aa fender, the engine rubs the firewall or rad support, crossmember or some other previously polished parts. mock up with a donor engine gets the weight right plus everything fits for the crate engine when it is time for the install. then, swap in the crate engine and when it is all running great and tuned etc, fix the little body imperfections and it's paint booth time.

[vintovka]

Please check the warranty before you buy and ensure they wern't making an exception for me. Also If they have actually recently changed warrantys to begin on final install it makes me wonder if I was alone in having stuff like rear main leakage right out of the crate. Thinking the number of recent complaints linked with QA/QC issues may support rumors that these are now being made or assembled offshore. Might be "ALL NEW GM PARTS" as made in one the 4 GM owned factories in CHINA.

[MiraclePieCo]

Every build I'm wishing I had one of those Payr lightweight plastic mockup engines.

[mongocanfly]

I looked at those mockup engines ...way outta my price range for what it is

[vintovka]

FWIW i just looked at my just cleaned floor. It appears my lovely genuine high quality GM Performance engine leaking again. Still suspect crappy factory installed rear main. Going back to dealer again.

[dsraven]

if it is a one piece rear main there is a special tool for install. have them look at the shaft for any marks etc that would affect the seal but also check the pcv system to ensure the thing can breath. this stuff should be old hat for a mechanic. stuff that makes seals leak, scored or worn shaft, nicks/burrs that can possibly cut the seal on install or during use, pressure build up inside engine from faulty or mis-installed pcv breather system, poorly installed seal or a seal which lost the lip spring during install, bent seal from poor install or no install tool, leaking rear main seal housing gasket. any way you cut it the trans has to come out to replace the rear main seal on a one piece rear main.

sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with the engine. seems like you can't catch a break. cool looking truck though.