292 Questions

[VWNate1]

Yes, the shaft is supposed to have a little vertical play .

The flyweights & Springs look O.K. too .

The crank case vents through the distributor a little it, why it's oily inside, not a problem .

I'm hesitant to have you remove the dist. for furter inspection because it's tricky for a DIY'er to get back in most of the time .

I see my acronyms are popular, I have lots of them .

[May70]

Well I found someone who let me borrow his clifford intake/4 barrel carb. Come to find out the carb is brand new and he doesnt know when he is going to use it, so I would feel bad for running gas through it. Especially when he would just to put it back up in a box on the shelf. Decided I wasnt going to use his stuff, and I took the carb off one last time.

I took the throttle body off the carb and ensured it was as close to perfectly flat as I could get it. Changed the gasket and put it back on there. STILL same thing. In my pure frustration I just decided I was done screwing with it and took the head off. Im pretty sure I want either the clifford/offenhauser intake with a 4 barrel anyway and I dont want to put those on there with head issues, hopefully that will all rid me of the issues.. Im going to have the machine shop go through the head. Half way temped to pull the block. Judging my head bolt findings im not sure if I need to.....

A couple of the head bolts had a lot of metal flakes/shavings on them, i SHOULD have taken a picture but I forgot.. and some of the holes were gunked up with some sort of sealer in the threads. It was almost like some sort of permetex or silicone maybe? Did they put that sort of thing on during factory assembly? I guess the only way for me to do anything about it would be to run a tap through it? I dont want a disaster on my hands. The bolts didnt have any issue coming out and the threads on the bolts look fine. Whats up with the metal flakes/shavings?

Suggestions would be great

[Steeveedee]

Did you ever check the valve lift?

[May70]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Did you ever check the valve lift?

No, I got so frustrated with it I just took it off and going to have the machine shop go through it.

//

I just had a friend stop by and he pointed out some heavy scratches on the #1 cyl. He also showed me the line the pistons create at the top of the cylinders after wearing. Learned some things.

He recommended to me to go ahead and just have the machine shop go through it. I told him what Id like to do with the intake/4 barrel. He said with that setup and having the top end valve job it might cause the bottom end to have issues if I just put it back like that. He also said with those goals they would probably recommend a mild cam. Im leaning toward just pulling it out.

Starting sooner than planned but hey, its gotta happen some time

[BigBird05]

If you are running a automatic check your fluid level. Trans fluid makes white smoke.
Comes from a bad vac modulator.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Permarex or Gaskacinch on some of the head bolts is normal, since they run thru the water jacket.
Good move on upgunning to a 4 barrel and intake.
I've been running that set up since '78 on 292s in my '68 C/10 stepside.

[RichardJ]

>>head bolts had a lot of metal flakes/shavings on them,<<

If you think it is metal, test with a magnet. It's more than likely dried out thread sealant used for treaded holes that are open to the water jacket, but used on all bolts so that the head bolts torque evenly. Permatex is one brand.

If you have the belt(s) off, use a long wrench and rock the crank back and forth a couple degrees and listen for any noises.

[Mike_The_Grad]

Hey May70, you posted some pretty good pictures of your engine bay. All the correct angles, and in focus. So thank you for that. That's a nice setup you got there. I can definitely see the potential.
There is one comment/question I have. And it may possibly be the root of your issue that seems to be "baffling" us all. No pun intended.
I noticed in the first picture you posted of your engine bay that you are running a PCV valve from the rear of the valve cover down to a direct manifold port. Which is correct and a good idea BTW. You are also running a sealed oil fill cap in the front of your valve cover. Again, good idea. The possible issue/problem that sticks out to me is your valve cover side draft tube. It appears you have it connected into the stock air filter. There are no other pictures you posted with the air cleaner Present after the first picture that shows it to verify.
Heres the reason why. When you run a PCV valve you need a fresh air supply to facilitate the process of Positive-Crankcase-Ventilation. In the case of a V8 engine this is normally accomplished by having the pcv valve in one valve cover(usually drivers side towards the front) and the fresh air intake on the other(usually passenger side towards the rear.) This is generally speaking and there are exceptions to this rule of thumb. Like with the inline 6 cylinder engine. There is only one valve cover to connect to. Having a sealed oil fill cap basically removes that orifice from the equation. Leaving the rear valve cover opening and the side draft tube opening. My dads 250 inline 6 that pulled out of his 64 c10 in order to put a 292 in its place was setup almost exactly like yours except for one difference. The valve cover draft tube on my dads engine had a short metal tube similar in diameter to the one you are running. BUT, the one on my dads engine was only pointed towards the rear of the engine and had a small rubber tube about 3 inches long that was open to atmosphere. No filter. Why? I dont know. When it came time to setup the PCV on my dads 292(about 2 weeks ago.) I had and still am having a heck of a time trying to figure out how I'm gonna get a fresh air supply and a functional PCV valve with a sealed oil fill cap and NO SIDE DRAFT TUBE IN THE VALVE COVER. The 292 he picked up from a guy wasnt equipped with one of those type valve covers. Not a big deal. But it was in better shape than the one from his 250. So I went with it. Any who. From what it looks like with your setup is that your pcv is connected to manifold vacuum and your oil fill cap is sealed and the side draft tube is connected to the air cleaner and your air cleaner is the stock type with the snorkel. To me, and I could very well be wrong but it seems like you're choking your engine with it's own connections. Your only source of fresh air is coming through that narrow snorkel. And your side draft tube is probably losing the battle for fresh air to your carburetors vacuum demand. While your PCV valves manifold vacuum source is also demanding a portion of the available airflow. So, I can see a situation of a limited air supply with a high demand for air. Also take into account when the throttle blades are opened above idle speed and your distributor advance adds to the vacuum effect. I can see why your engine creates such a high vacuum signal then drops to nothing and literally chokes itself out. This is purely my observation and I cannot say without doubt that I am correct in my observation. Maybe someone else can chime in...

[Mike_The_Grad]

Oh, and dont use a tap for chasing the threads in the engine block. It's to sharp and will remove material leaving you with ill fitting bolts. Don't ask me how I know. Instead use a thread chaser. It's designed for chasing threads without removing material. I picked up a set of them on Amazon. It is probably my most favorite tool set I have in my garage. I only wish I had invested in one years ago. Like before I took on my own engine build. At $60,which is kind of steep for a tool someone like myself who normally heads to HF for what I need, it has done its job many times over and still does. It's a craftsman brand set of male and female thread chasing dies/taps. It does NC,NF, and metric threads. In all the most common sizes ranging from 1/4"- 5/8" and even some 9/16" NC and NF. The metric is the same but metric. Lol. I'm sure there are other brands and configurations but it's worth getting the sizes that you will run across when/if you decide to take on the rebuild yourself. Just remember to always run them with some kind of lubricant.(threading/tapping/cutting oil, even a light engine oil. Not WD40, my opinion.) keep em clean. And they will serve their purpose for a long time.

[RichardJ]

Long post so I'm not going into detail on your variation.

Vacuum to PCV valve, closed fill cap and tube to air cleaner is called a " Closed PCV System"
At idle, vacuum is high, blow-by is low. Clean air from the air cleaner enters valve cover, mixes with blow-by and is pulled into manifold.
At WOT, vacuum is low, blow-by is high. Excess blow-by exits valve cover to carb, thru carb to manifold.
PCV valve adjusts for cruise and varying load conditions.

Vacuum to PCV valve and vented fill cap is called a " Open PCV System"
It can draw air into valve cover at idle and spew blow-by out at WOT.
Open systems were allowed on only a few systems on the first few years PCV Systems were required.
A Open System is only one step above a road draft tube.

Your Dad's 3" hose is good for sucking dirt into the rocker box as he drives down the road.

It's best to let GM do the thinking here. They know how to make it beneficial to the engine.

[Mike_The_Grad]

I concur completely RichardJ. There is a baffle in the valve cover side where the tube connects. Also in a closed PCV system, like in a v8, the incoming air supply is below or behind a filter element. With out much knowledge of O.E.M. air filter housings and based solely on what I can see in may70's first picture of the engine bay. It appears the valve cover side inlet tubing is outside/in front off the main air filter element. Did the factory have a dedicated element for the fresh air inlet tubing connected to the side of the valve cover? If yes, great. If no, then it's unfiltered air entering the valve cover.

Regardless, we are all grabbing at straws here. It's tough being in our position because we can't put our own hands on the truck. Its gotta be even tougher being in may70's position because of all of the help, info, questions and different opinions coming from all over the internet. Add to that inexperience and uncertainty, and it all can be a little overwhelming. I can relate completely because it is the exact same position I was in just a few years ago. That's when I found this site. And have been thankful ever since.

In my opinion may70, you are at a crossroads with your engine. You are not to far away from having a rebuild on your hands. Nothing wrong with that. You may want to take into consideration the benefits of rebuilding it now vs. Later down the road after you bolt on and clean up pieces along the way. Which is what happened to me with the 350 in my own 72 c10. It sat for 8 years with no hood. One day I pulled it out and gave it a good cleaning, painted it, carb rebuild, never took the heads off. Replaced some gaskets and dropped it back in. Fired it up and drove it about 4,000 miles. Made it to the first oil change since I pulled it out. Then I blew a head gasket. The engine was rebuilt 20 years earlier including sitting for 10 years with only tap water in the cooling system and exposed to the elements. My thinking at the time was just replace the head gaskets and be back on the road in a week or so. Boy was I wrong. Full rebuild was the answer. Looking back, I should have acknowledged the signs of a worn engine and what "breathing new life into it" could possibly bring along. I had to replace the cylinder heads, bore it .040 over(was already .030 over.), crankshaft survived with a light polish, new comp cam kit. The whole 9. Got it all straightened out now. Runs great. BUT, the hardest thing about the whole situation was the 4,000 miles I got to enjoy driving my truck thinking all was fine and dandy. Only to have to park it again a few short months later and not be able to enjoy it for almost 2 full years. That was a tough 2 years for me.

[VWNate1]

Lots and lots of great info here, thanx for sharing it all fellas .

There are many different ways to skin a cat .

I like closed PCV systems and usually ad them to my older engines .

For those who are lucky enough to have undented rockerboxes, the solution is simple : look in the AC / Delco "buyer's Guide" and choose the oil cap with a large hose nipple on it and use that to draw clean filtered air from the air cleaner .

PCV systems are nice on several levels, they make the engine last longer and reduce oil weeps & seeps at the same time without sapping any power .

Never forget that older GM engines were well designed and usually run well long after other brands engines have stopped running .

Upgrading an tired old oil burning engine to breakerless ignition will allow you to keep driving it as you $ave the $ for the overhaul or rebuild .

Sharp tuning is critical ~ because of slight difference in manufacturing tolerances each engine can be fine tuned to give it's very best .

Gasoline is never going go be cheap again to think hard before Hot Rodding your engine ~ a 3/4 ton stock truck camshaft from 1967 really wakes up the average GM V8 and still provides good running, easy driving manners and fuel economy you can live with .

[May70]

Its interesting about the open vs closed pcv system, because Ive seen the pics Grumpy posted with one of his 292's and was wondering why they made some with out the side port to the air cleaner. Good info but I do wonder why one vs the other on the same motor. I was thinking about capping off the side port and putting an open breather type like he had where the oil fill cap is, because the breather I put on the 4 barrel probably wont have that port. Thoughts on that?

As soon as I get the motor out it is going to the machine shop. Im not trying to finish the truck in (how ever long) then have to pull the motor. I am by no means trying to hot rod this thing. I was a cruiser. The tires will never be burned. I knew going into it, wasnt going to be cheap. I want to find out if I can get a transmission with an overdrive to pair to a 292 any way and between that and the other stuff I want to add on (PS AC) this all just needs to go ahead and happen. I have no idea about transmissions either so I need to do some research on that on what my options are. Having a little trouble pulling the motor atm (different forum post).

I bought this because I have always wanted one and im gunna do my best to see it through. I could go spend 50k on a new truck but that is seriously not my style. Life is short so im trying to get a big one marked off the list.... Its going to be weird if I ever do finish this truck... cause ive already got the boat done (62 Renken Runabout) haha I dont think there will be a big project again...

[VWNate1]

It's very simple :

When at idle the PCV system sucks in clean air some where, it's better to use filtered air from the air cleaner than dirty / dusty air via the oil filler cap .

[Mike_The_Grad]

VWNate1 hit the nail on the head about the breather/oil fill combo. This was an option I was leaning towards with my dads setup. I then was informed by my parts guy the possibility of crankcase blow by gases and fumes from the oil finding their way into the cab. The issue I'm facing is how to achieve a filtered air source through the twist in front opening of the valve cover that is not just a typical twist in style of breather. Having a 9"" open element air cleaner with a 5-1/8" base adapted to a single barrel carburetor is making things a little tricky. Especially because the valve cover opening is above the carburetor's air filter mounting flange.
And may70, you may be correct in your assumption of the 4 barrel adapted to your engine. Once you start altering the factory original configuration you step into the aftermarket and custom world. If you think the factory did some weird things the aftermarket will have your head spinning. The "goal" with my dads truck is to have a dual single barrel aluminum intake on the bored over 292 with an RV cam and hedman headers. No PS. No PB. 4 on the floor. 3" drop up front, 5" drop in the rear. Only thing missing is the dual carb setup.
I think there's a discussion in the FAQ of the 60-66 truck section about getting a 700r4 behind a straight six.

['68OrangeSunshine]

It' pretty simple to maintain the proper flow of a closed PCV system even with after market components, if you recall how they were rigged when stock.
I have an Edelbrock 1404 on an Offy intake on my 292.
Clean filtered air is drawn into the air cleaner. Some is sucked thru a mesh filter inside on the bottom of the aircleaner, a 12'' round Moroso pan on top of the Edelbrock. And feeds air thru ~1'' diameter hose via a 90* plastic elbow that connects with the side grommet on the front of the valve cover.
Air is exhausted thru the PCV valve and flows into the 3/8'' port on the front of the carb.

[VWNate1]

It's do able with some fiddling, once you understand the hows and whys is very simple and all you needs do is find the rockerbox / oil cap that allows the hose connection then walk a few swap meets until you find either the air cleaner you like or the hose nipple you can solder / weld to the air cleaner .

Using a wider diameter air cleaner gives you plenty of room to add the fresh air nipple to the underside where it's not so visible .

Consider using the original air filter and having it chromed, then everything fits and works correctly and easily plus it's truly Hot Rodded, not just Chinese crap bolted on to your rig .

I'm hoping to use a 1981 TH350-C slucsbox, this one has the lock up torque converter for highway use .

Many different ways to skin a can .

[Mike_The_Grad]

Found these on google while trying to figure out the PCV system on my dads 1964 c10 with 292.

[VWNate1]

The first image appears to be a late 235 engine, early ones rarely had PCV's and it was added to the road draft tube, they discovered that caused too much oil to be sucked in so they changed it to the rockerbox .

Now you know what you need and what to do , right ? .

[Steeveedee]

Yup. PO rigged the PCV valve to the vent hose. Should have left it in the baffled hole at the back on top. It wouldn't have been sucking oil into the engine. Time we're all done he'll have it all done right!