47-55.1 Teaching myself metalwork?

[GMC Rodder]

Good day all,

I am currently starting the build of my 49 GMC 5 window. I'm doing the s10 frame swap and getting it running and driving well as a stage 1.

Here's where I run in to problems. It needs floors, probably inner and outer cab corners as well as some cowl work. Do you guys think it would be feasible to teach myself the skills for metal work? I have a background as a welder and some basic fab skills, but I just don't know where to start with sheet metal work. I do have a space to work in as well as some basic fab tools.

Any advice would be awesome.

P.S. There is someone here that is willing to teach me, but his work isn't that great. If I'm going to learn, I want to learn to do it right.

[Jesse Z]

I think 90% of us learned metalwork on our own through trail and error. The beauty is, if the metal is already damaged you can't really hurt it. If you screw it up, you just do it over again until you get it right. Nowadays YouTube tutorials are available as a huge head start for aspiring metalworkers.

[mr48chev]

Well just like back in high school welding shop class. Start out on pieces of metal that you can throw away when you are done and work your way up to the real stuff when you get confident.

I've had a copy of this book for years and still dig it out once in a while for reference. https://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Metal-F...222148&s=books

I've got more but they are more on metal shaping custom panels.

Most of us are a lot pickier about our own work now than we maybe were 40 years ago when we stuck stuff together as best we could and then spread bondo over it and filled dings in panels or fenders with body filer rather than take a few minutes with hammer and dolly and work the metal so that it takes little or no filler.

I'm a bit of a hack at body work but we do have some pros with a lot of years of experience that might throw in a bit of advice. There is nothing wrong with stopping and taking some photos of the issue and asking the best way to approach it.

[dsraven]

when you say you have a background in welding, how extensive is that? do you have the welder, grinders, torch, chop saw, shop, etc etc?
more info required in that area before we can really give you some advice on how to proceed. if you are a welder then you probably have the tools. if that was years ago and you don't have the tools anymore then you probably have the knowledge just haven't welded in a while. it is like riding a bike though, you will remember once you get started. post up a few pics of what you have and we can give you a few pointers on what to look for etc.

hint
when taking stuff apart take lots of pics, install the hardware back on the bolts/nuts etc. label and box stuff in groupings so you will be able to find it and know what it should look like when it goes back together. start a thumb drive with the pics and group stuff in there as well. eg: dash parts, heater parts, cab electrical, door parts (L) and (R). some Rubbermaid bins are an easy way to keep track of the bigger stuff. don't fully disassemble the larger items until you plan to fix them, like doors. keep the doors assembled until you are ready to repair that door. keep the heater assembled until you plan to work on the heater. take it out and reassemble it then stick it all in a box. an assembly manual is also pretty cheap and will give lots of info on how stuff fits.
before you start any metal repairs get the doors fitting half decent and the gaps set using a paint stick for a gap tool. replace the hinges and fix the latches if need be so the doors can be adjusted properly. then brace the door openings from the inside with the doors closed. use some cheap angle iron or black pipe, whatever, but brace high enough so you have room top work around the braces. brace in an X pattern to keep things from moving. then take the doors off and then the cab off the frame so you can clean it all up or blast it. if blasting ensure the guy doing the blasting has done a vehicle or 2 before or the metal will likely come back to you warped. the nice thing about blasting is that you will find any weak spots in the cab so you won't do a bunch of work and find out later the part next to that was also really thin. try to find a blaster that will also epoxy prime it for you so it is all done before you bring it home. no wet road rust starting up before you have a chance to epoxy the metal. do your thing on the floors and cab corners etc. do the required repairs and shoot some epoxy on each repair when you are done. check out the replacement panels available and price it out. sometimes the cheap route is not so cheap when you factor in supplies, tools and tool wear, power and time. a new replacement floor might seem pretty spendy but it would sure save a bunch of time and effort if your old floor comes up pretty thin. I would suggest to get the cab looking good before spending time to get the cab on the s10 frame. that way you are starting with a solid cube to place on the frame and fab stuff to fit rather than a rickety cube that will flex etc during the install on the non stock frame. rather that than fight with fitment issues after the fact.
thats just my take on the whole thing.
pics, we need to see what you have to start with.

[my56chevytruck]

Originally Posted by Jesse Z

I think 90% of us learned metalwork on our own through trail and error. The beauty is, if the metal is already damaged you can't really hurt it. If you screw it up, you just do it over again until you get it right. Nowadays YouTube tutorials are available as a huge head start for aspiring metalworkers.

I have to agree with Jesse Z, trial and error, that's what it takes to learn metalworking. Since you have the desire to learn it, go buy some sheet metal and practice on it. if it doesn't come out as you desire, try again. that's how we all have learned, far better to do it yourself.

[dsraven]

check out a little book called
the key to metal bumping. it's from the old days but metal didn't cjhange in that much time. good basic theory on how to move metal around with a hammer and a dolly and sometimes some heat. how to get started by looking at a dent or damage and then where to start in order to fix that issue

[Matt_50]

I had ZERO welding and fab experience when I started. Floors, firewall repairs, cowls, cab corners, door repairs, fender repairs, misc other stuff. And all with a sad little flux core welder. Had a friend help me now and then but I had to figure a lot out on my own. YouTube is your friend. And like Jesse Z said, can't hurt what's already bad. I replaced all the cancer and I'm sure others here would have made it look cleaner but I'm happy. I started on areas that wouldn't be seen, like the floors. After I got some confidence didbthe cab corners and so on. This site is awesome, read through the projects.

[Ironworking]

I don't know if you Canooks have Harbor Freight Stores. If you purchase a shear/brake/roller as shown in this link and teach yourself how to use it. You will be able to build pretty much any freaking piece you could ever need. I LOVE mine.

As far as welding sheet metal, use a thick solid aluminum or copper backing plate behind your welds. Copper is best, but aluminum will get you by.

And as the saying goes, measure twice and cut once.

Wish you the best!

https://www.harborfreight.com/30-inc...roll-5907.html

[65blackfleetside]

I too taught myself with my first project- A 1966 convertible mustang. Completely rusted out floors frame rails cowl etc.. I purchased a Lincoln 100 110 volt wire feed welder at Home depot 25 years ago. I then added an argon CO2 bottle. Good machine but i wore it out over time.

There was no "You tube" back then. I had a part time mentor.

If I were you I would buy the best wire feed welder that you can afford now.
The cheap machines will get things done but you will soon want to upgrade.

There are a lot of good machines out there and most guys on here are loyal to a brand.

My third and hopefully last welder is a Hobart 180. wire feed. It came with an aluminum spool gun which is a nice bonus.
I picked this up on Amazon for about $650.00

Get your self 2- 4" grinders / cut off wheels. one for cutting and one for grinding so you are not changing back and forth so much. I like the lower amp machines with these- they are lighter & if they get stuck or caught, you don't get in to much trouble with too much power. (Unless you have big air compressor to run an air cut off wheel etc- those are even safer)

Always use a good quality full face shield when cutting or grinding metal- I have had metal removed from my eye 3x from using just safety glasses.

and of course welding gloves and fire proof long sleave jacket.
I go a step further and tie one of those green cloth welding jackets around my waste to protect my groin area.

[Ironworking]

And these will save you not only money, but a lot of time. They cost more up front; but they more than make up for it soon after.

LENOX MetalMax 4-1/2-in Diamond Grit Cutting Wheel Blade 1972921

[dsraven]

like 65 fleetside says, outfit yourself with a decent little mig that has gas connected. look on the used sites like craigslist because there are deals out there from guys who bought a nice little machine but are done with it. usually they are willing to part with some of their extras they have collected over time as well. you will need to grab some tip pliers too so you can cut the wire each time you are going to start a weld. a set of side cutters will also work but the tip pliers do come in handy for cleaning the slag out of the end of the gas tip. this cutting of the wire leaves the wire with a chisel tip so it digs in right away and the arc starts clean rather than bouncing along the surface until it wears a connection through the slag on the end of the wire. the latter way will leave contaminants in the weld so it can be porous or have "bubbles". also get a good quality helmet with auto darkening so you can see where your weld will start and also so you can make sure the parts line up before you start the weld. a good set of gloves is also a must. not a big clunky set because you can't feel anything through those. a good face shield and a set of good fitting safety glasses is also a must. always wear the glasses and then put the shield on for grinding etc. trust me, safety glasses are NOT enough coverage when cutting or grinding or using a burr. especially if the cutting is with the metalmax disc. personally I like the bug eyed wrap around safety glasses that leave a little gap at the top for ait circulation. then they don't fog up so easily but will stop crud from falling in your eye when under the project. I use a bionic face shield and also a set of goggles that will fit over the reading glasses i need from time to time. some ear muffs are required as well as some of those roll up ear plugs. cheap, and they keep the "stuff" from getting into your ears. you only get welding slag in your ear canal once and then you get some ear plugs....over time I have collected quite a few things for welding including an apron and some leather "sleeves". they are cheaper than buying coveralls because there is burn holes at the waistline from welding and fabbing on the workbench. they also stop those pesky little wires from the wire wheel. those pinch a little when you bend and find there was a wire stuck in your clothing which is now stuck into your skin. remember that welding is like a concentrated sun blast so don't be like those guys on tv who weld in a tank top or just use goggles. welding flash and welding sunburn are nothing to joke about. cover up and be safe. you will want ot be able to see and hear later on.
personally I have a bout 6 little el cheapo deluxe electric angle grinders. like the ones they sell at harbor freight. I have a different attachment on each grinder. one has a thin cutting disc (this is where there is a definite difference in types of discs, just try a thicker cutting disc and you will see right away that it takes waaay longer and builds waaay more heat in the project piece in order to cut the same length), one has a lennox metalmax disc, one has a small knotted cupped wire wheel, one has a course flap disc, one has a finer flap disc, one has a regular grinding disc. those are all 4 1/2 inch grinders bought for under $25. then I have a 5" better quality (makita) grinder with a grinding disc, another 5" with a bigger wire wheel, a 5" with a shrinking disc and a 7" with a bigger shrinking disc, and lastly a 7" with a sanding disc on a rubber backer. aside from that I have quite a few air die grinders. one with a small pointed burr for getting into corners, one with a 3/8" rounded tip burr and one with a 1/2" rounded tip burr. I also have one of those really long necked die grinders for those hard to reach spots. then I have a couple of angle head grinders with different sized roloc disc backer heads in them. some have course sanding rolocs and some have varying degrees of scotchbrite pad rolocs in them. then I have a couple of air cut off tools the same size as the die grinders but with a cut off disc instead. my point here is none of these tools are expensive, aside from the makita stuff, and I buy them all on sale or off a used tool site like your craigslist. never pay too much more than $20 for any of them brand new. when you have this many of the same tool then one single tool never gets wore out, lol. it sure does save time and effort because it is easy to grab the tool with the right tip for the job rather than make do with something else because you don't want the hassle of spending time changing the tip. if you don't have an air compressor to keep up with the air tools then there are also electric versions available. keep youir eye on the used sites or the pawn shops. I have an array of c clamp style vice grips and some extra long versions which come in very handy, especially if you work alone. a set of cleco pliers and some cleco rivets will also save you time and hassle. some of those sheet metal butt clamps will come in handy for holding parts together but if you don't have the cash for clamps and vice grips etc then invest in a decent magnet or a couple. they work pretty well to hold stuff as long as you don't need to weld right next to the magnet because the magnetism disrupts the mig weld.

ok, that was waay more than I had planned, sorry for the rant. hope it gave some ideas.
youtube, your welding apprenticeship......lol.

[dsraven]

here is a good site for some basic info on mig welder set up and how/why things work like they do. I think there are others in his series too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KrwmK7df-s

[dsraven]

another from the same site showing the V tecnique. some good pointers.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/mig-welding.html

one from lincoln showing a fender patch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd5MPtc88zA

another from a tech tips site showing seven common mistakes and how to identify. a good one for beginners and seasoned "self taught" guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xod-ByrxHg4

[GMC Rodder]

I didn't think this would blow up quite as big as it did. Thanks a ton for all the advice and words of encouragement. I'm going to get the cab blasted/primed and get to work this winter on it, starting with the floors.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out.

Originally Posted by Jesse Z

I think 90% of us learned metalwork on our own through trail and error. The beauty is, if the metal is already damaged you can't really hurt it. If you screw it up, you just do it over again until you get it right. Nowadays YouTube tutorials are available as a huge head start for aspiring metalworkers.

That's my plan now, I just needed a little confirmation to get over my self doubt. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Matt_50

I had ZERO welding and fab experience when I started. Floors, firewall repairs, cowls, cab corners, door repairs, fender repairs, misc other stuff. And all with a sad little flux core welder. Had a friend help me now and then but I had to figure a lot out on my own. YouTube is your friend. And like Jesse Z said, can't hurt what's already bad. I replaced all the cancer and I'm sure others here would have made it look cleaner but I'm happy. I started on areas that wouldn't be seen, like the floors. After I got some confidence didbthe cab corners and so on. This site is awesome, read through the projects.

I plan on starting with the floors, that way when I screw it up it should be hidden under the carpet lol

Originally Posted by Ironworking

I don't know if you Canooks have Harbor Freight Stores. If you purchase a shear/brake/roller as shown in this link and teach yourself how to use it. You will be able to build pretty much any freaking piece you could ever need. I LOVE mine.

As far as welding sheet metal, use a thick solid aluminum or copper backing plate behind your welds. Copper is best, but aluminum will get you by.

And as the saying goes, measure twice and cut once.

Wish you the best!

https://www.harborfreight.com/30-inc...roll-5907.html

We have the same thing but it's called princess auto, they have that exact same machine (albeit $729) so I'll wait for it to go on sale I think. Thanks!

Originally Posted by 65blackfleetside

I too taught myself with my first project- A 1966 convertible mustang. Completely rusted out floors frame rails cowl etc.. I purchased a Lincoln 100 110 volt wire feed welder at Home depot 25 years ago. I then added an argon CO2 bottle. Good machine but i wore it out over time.

There was no "You tube" back then. I had a part time mentor.

If I were you I would buy the best wire feed welder that you can afford now.
The cheap machines will get things done but you will soon want to upgrade.

There are a lot of good machines out there and most guys on here are loyal to a brand.

My third and hopefully last welder is a Hobart 180. wire feed. It came with an aluminum spool gun which is a nice bonus.
I picked this up on Amazon for about $650.00

Get your self 2- 4" grinders / cut off wheels. one for cutting and one for grinding so you are not changing back and forth so much. I like the lower amp machines with these- they are lighter & if they get stuck or caught, you don't get in to much trouble with too much power. (Unless you have big air compressor to run an air cut off wheel etc- those are even safer)

Always use a good quality full face shield when cutting or grinding metal- I have had metal removed from my eye 3x from using just safety glasses.

and of course welding gloves and fire proof long sleave jacket.
I go a step further and tie one of those green cloth welding jackets around my waste to protect my groin area.

Thanks for the equipment recommendations, I already have a miller 215 with c75 mixed gas. No big compressor but I do already have 1 4" grinder, time for a second one. I need to pick up a face shield, I currently use my welding lid but face shields are cheap. I already have a full leather coat and a set of leather welding chops as well from my former life as a welder so I'm covered there.

Thanks for all the great advice!

Originally Posted by dsraven

here is a good site for some basic info on mig welder set up and how/why things work like they do. I think there are others in his series too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KrwmK7df-s

Originally Posted by dsraven

another from the same site showing the V tecnique. some good pointers.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/mig-welding.html

one from lincoln showing a fender patch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd5MPtc88zA

another from a tech tips site showing seven common mistakes and how to identify. a good one for beginners and seasoned "self taught" guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xod-ByrxHg4

I watched most of those, there's a ton of good knowledge there. Thanks!

[Getter-Done]

About 10 years ago I took a weekend course
here at the place in the link below.
Link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XD7YgLAqKY

I have learned most on my own by trial and error.

This is a good guy to get tip and tricks from.
Link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqgdeazZkMg

Check in your area to see if anyone has classes like these.






.

[Matt_50]

Start a project thread in the subforum for us to follow along.

[MiraclePieCo]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

I had ZERO welding and fab experience when I started. Floors, firewall repairs, cowls, cab corners, door repairs, fender repairs, misc other stuff. And all with a sad little flux core welder. Had a friend help me now and then but I had to figure a lot out on my own. YouTube is your friend. And like Jesse Z said, can't hurt what's already bad. I replaced all the cancer and I'm sure others here would have made it look cleaner but I'm happy. I started on areas that wouldn't be seen, like the floors. After I got some confidence didbthe cab corners and so on. This site is awesome, read through the projects.

You have come far Grasshopper ;-)

Funny how after years on this forum one gradually progresses from asking all the questions to answering all the questions.

[Matt_50]

There might have been one or two questions..... this has been a great forum.

[MARTINSR]

Here is a "Basics of Basics" on weld removal to remove those panels by "unbolting" the weld.
https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/bas...ls-222549.html

Brian