55.2-59 Fender to Cowl Crust

[MotoWells]

Looking for advice on replacing seized bolts that attach the fender to cowl.

The bolts that attach the fender to the cowl are seized and broken on three of the four areas. My first attempt with soaking and heating with vice grips did not work.

My next thought for the top cowl and fender is to cut the box holding the nut, put in a new nut and weld it back on. Possibly the same for the bottom of the fender.

Any alternative thoughts to this plan would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Jeff

[dsraven]

do you have a welder and a torch?

if there is a stud sticking out, like pic 2 and 3. heat the nub so it is red hot and then let it cool. don't try to loosen it while it is red or it may just turn into licorice and twist off. when red it will be expanded to be a tight fit in the nut, which is not expanding at the same rate. normally you would heat the nut and it would expand quicker than the bolt. anyway, while it is cooling, drill the threads out of a nut so it will slip over the stud and then drill one side with a larger drill about 1/3 of the way though the nut. this will create a well for the weld to be in, then weld it on using as much heat as possible without burning the nub off. when it is cool enough so oil doesn't just burn off when sprayed on it, load it up with penetrating oil and tap it a few times to set up some vibrations. check it periodically and spray/tap as required. walk away for a day so the heat expansion and contraction process can do it's thing. when you come back give the nut a couple of taps again and try to work it loose making sure there is ample penetrating oil to work it's way in.remember that penetrating oil is not really a lube so once it breaks loose and starts to turn start hitting it with a lube oil of some sort. personally I like "liquid film". if it is gonna be a no go or the nut breaks off you can try it again till the nub is broken off. at that point you could try drilling and tapping (fine thread on my 57) or you could zip disc the remains off smooth with the cage holding the nut, drill the spot welds off one side of the cage tabs that hold the caged nut, and try to get the nut out. I think the bolt will be through the nut so it protrudes through the underside so that may be a challenge, worth a try though. if you give up, make some good reference marks with a straight edge so X marks the spot for the center, then drill the spot welds and bend up the sides, leaving the rounded part alone, remove the old caged nut. slip in a new home made nut and close it up or remove most of the whole thing (leaving the rounded side for ease of locating),clean up the area, spray some weld through primer on anything bare steel and weld on a new cage nut. like one of these. you would need to cut off the old one so the new one fits the same and you could weld the new cage to the old cage in the round side against the cowl.

https://picclick.com/4-pcs-3-8-24-we...111129950.html

[dsraven]

really nice pics. it makes it so much easier to give a fix explanation when we can actually see what you are dealing with. thank you.

[MARTINSR]

Removing rusted bolt basics
One of the first jobs I ever had was at a shop doing full on restorations on vintage Fords (we specialized in model 40s 1933-34). By boss taught me MANY things I use every day. One of them was the best trick for getting rusted bolts out that I have ever tried.
You need your torch with a small tip.
Take the torch and make a perfect flame like you are going to weld. Heat the bolt head up till it starts to turn red. (If the bolt is already broken off you will need to saw a grove to use a flat blade screwdriver or have enough to grab with locking pliers) Then quickly cool it with a squirt bottle of water. Repeat, heat it, then cool it. Do this a number of times and the bolt WILL turn right out. If you can, heat the nut around the bolt right before you try turning it out, BUT DON'T HEAT THE BOLT. This will expand the nut from around the bolt. I have did this on Model A door hinges, if you are not familiar with them, it is a 5/16 bolt with a little flat blade screw driver head! A ridiculous design that rusted in to tight to remove around 1950! You can imagine how hard they are to remove in 2000. I have did these with total success, only needing a regular hand screw driver about 99% of the time.

The way I figure the heating and cooling expands and contracts the screw breaking it loose from the rusts grip.


Brian

[dsraven]

I think that Brians theory is roughly the same as mine except his way is quicker using the squirt bottle to cool stuff off rather than time. heat/cool repeat. expand/contract repeat. break the bond turn it out.
keep us posted.

[MotoWells]

Thank you dsraven and MartinSR, I will attempt to use the heat and cool method, the physics of it make sense but most of all your positive results with this method.

Do either of you think that I could get the appropriate temperature with plumbers torch or should I seek out an O2 / acetylene torch?

I will be sure to post pictures of my attempt. Worse case I cut and replace the steel cage nut, thank you for that link dsraven.

Jeff

[dsraven]

try the plumbers torch if thats what you have. prolly gonna need to borrow acet torch though for the quick and high temp heat.

[sack54]

Try left handed drill bits as they drill they will take the bolt out.Better than easy outs. I replaced my nuts at the cowl and bottom of fender with Flange nuts can not even tell.plenty of nut flange to weld strong.Any that have a bolt broken can come out just weld on a washer and nut. The heat from welding should make it loose ,then add oil, or wax and should come right out.

[my56chevytruck]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Removing rusted bolt basics
One of the first jobs I ever had was at a shop doing full on restorations on vintage Fords (we specialized in model 40s 1933-34). By boss taught me MANY things I use every day. One of them was the best trick for getting rusted bolts out that I have ever tried.
You need your torch with a small tip.
Take the torch and make a perfect flame like you are going to weld. Heat the bolt head up till it starts to turn red. (If the bolt is already broken off you will need to saw a grove to use a flat blade screwdriver or have enough to grab with locking pliers) Then quickly cool it with a squirt bottle of water. Repeat, heat it, then cool it. Do this a number of times and the bolt WILL turn right out. If you can, heat the nut around the bolt right before you try turning it out, BUT DON'T HEAT THE BOLT. This will expand the nut from around the bolt. I have did this on Model A door hinges, if you are not familiar with them, it is a 5/16 bolt with a little flat blade screw driver head! A ridiculous design that rusted in to tight to remove around 1950! You can imagine how hard they are to remove in 2000. I have did these with total success, only needing a regular hand screw driver about 99% of the time.

The way I figure the heating and cooling expands and contracts the screw breaking it loose from the rusts grip.


Brian

Excellent explanation Brian, I'll copy this and keep it for future references.

[Johns327]

Motowells,
These are all great ways to clear a stuck bolt, but in the end, do you really want to bank on the rusty threads holding your fender on? I had similar problem, common on TF trucks, I did the replacement on one side, the other I thought was fine. After paint I found it wasn’t fine and had to take action on a stripped out rusty nut. In hindsight I should have done the replacement on both.
That’s my thoughts, if you leave them there, you should invest in some bottoming taps, LOL.
John

[Black_Sheep]

Originally Posted by MotoWells

Thank you dsraven and MartinSR, I will attempt to use the heat and cool method, the physics of it make sense but most of all your positive results with this method.

Do either of you think that I could get the appropriate temperature with plumbers torch or should I seek out an O2 / acetylene torch?

I will be sure to post pictures of my attempt. Worse case I cut and replace the steel cage nut, thank you for that link dsraven.

Jeff

If all you have access to is a propane torch, get a bottle of MAPP gas because it burns hotter. If possible I prefer heating the nut to an orange glow and carefully working the bolt back and forth until it starts to turn easily, reapplying heat as necessary.

[MotoWells]

Excellent news, I was able to successfully remove bolt with all your advice!


This one took a few cycles of heat and cooling but it finally came loose.


With the others I am considering drilling out as I heat / cool as they don't have a head on them. I will keep you all posted.

[dsraven]

if you have a welder, mig or tig preferred so you can see what you're doing better, you could try welding a nut on the remains of the bolt. then walk away for a bit and come back when it is still hot, drop some oil on it and walk away again till it is completely cooled off. then try turning the nut.