California K20 emission question

[leddzepp]

No rosette rivets? The dmv will rake you over the coals and then bend you over. Be prepared to pay a LOT of fines, fees, taxes, etc.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Yes they did use rosettes. When he rebuilt and painted the truck he used different rivets. Nobody contested that. Like I said it made into my garage and the idiots in DMV sac town never seen the truck. Just hoping the GM letter will avoid the emissions issue and just get the vin verified.

Originally Posted by jocko

Lack of rosettes may very well be THE problem, unfortunately. Does the VIN on the plate match the VIN on the title? There is no VIN ref on the engine itself, but initial Canada docs may actually show the engine serial # - might want a northern neighbor to confirm that though. Your VIN starts off like a pre-72 1/2 ton 2WD Chev, and from there I got lost... Anyone know if initial sales destination (as in country) had anything to do with VIN convention on Canadian built trucks?? I just assumed all Canadian built trucks followed the same VIN convention regardless of initial country sold in. Sorry, wish I could be more help on this.

EDIT: before going to General Quarters, I’d also ask someone on here to confirm that Canada used rosettes in 70 - I know GM USA did, but ya never know. Lotsa folks on here have Canadian built trucks - if anyone with a 70 Canadian truck could confirm rosettes that would help.

['68OrangeSunshine]

GMC VINs are different.
C = Conventional [2wd]
E = V8
1 = 1/2 Ton
34 = Fleetside
[-] = Dash means no Pennsylvania state certification [GMC only]
1 = Oshawa assembly
Z = 1970
50609 = Production sequence.

So the VIN tag on your 3/4 ton is for a C/1500 not a C/2500. It's a Canadian-made Oshawa truck from 1970, not a '71 Fremont [Z] truck.
If there is a VIN on the engine block, it's not from a truck. If the block VIN matches the number on the plate, that's a little TOO coincidental. Of course I'm a long way from Canada, so my experience is limited. Can't say why there's no ''9'' code in the VIN.

Bruceman1968 is the resident VIN puzzle expert. Maybe he'll show up.

[jocko]

GMC VINs always puzzle me, ha - but since you mentioned Bruceman's charts, now I'm really curious, because that's where I got my info - seems a 70 should start with C9E140? But clearly the VIN in the pic is Canadian and your decode makes sense - where did you find the Pennsylvania info, etc? I just thought GMC had to have a 9 in it as the 2nd digit for pre-72s?? Thanks.

last pic of this post http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...05&postcount=1

[Snake Eyes USA]

I understand not having the rosette rivets may be an issue. Question. What do those who repaint their trucks do? They remove vin plates. Do they put them back using same rivet type?

The vin on plate does match vin on title. BUT! Always a butt. Though not a huge deal. Canada messed up on the vin. Paperwork. They mistook "Z" for a "5". Thats what i feel was the red flag. The vin verify paperwork sent in corrected that but I feel it may have pushed to further confirm.

Heres the thing. From import to chp inspection during import no flags were raised we had all the paperwork. Cali. DMV has deciding to make things difficult. Can only ride the lightning from here.
Here is the first thread I created when coming here. Take a read. And Bruceman is a huge help.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=742237

[DeadheadNM]

On my builds we taped off the VIN plate and paint around them.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

On my builds we taped off the VIN plate and paint around them.

I’ve done that on all my builds and so does every body shop that I’m aware of.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Whoops. I guess my Father in Law made a huge mistake and we may pay dearly for it. Its already been a rollercoaster in hell. After a while you stop feeling the burn. lol
I pray we get through this with the truck. We just want to preserve the hard earned money and time he put into this truck and represent it at shows and drive it in Sundays. He did so much to it. Got it ready and done with. Never got to drive it. He stored it in a garage for 10 12 years.

[chevy71super]

I registered my 72 K10 in California (from Washington state) and my 75 Jeep CJ5 (Nevada) with no issues and no emission equipment inspection on either. The DMV I dealt with wouldn't know the difference between a rosette rivet and regular one. (That was also my experience in Oregon where I had to show the kid where the VIN plate was.) Coming from Canada is probably what tripped the DMV to look harder or you just had the bad luck of going to a DMV location where the register was not comfortable with a Canadian import.

[jocko]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

The vin on plate does match vin on title.

That's a tiny little detail that might have been more helpful somewhere around post #1. The fact that it sailed thru the border and everything else until it got to DMV just means they are the first ones to actually do their job. Hope you get it sorted out without too much more pain.

[DeadheadNM]

Example pic of a CA replacement VIN

[DeadheadNM]

Take a look at this GM windshield decal.

Could it be that GM affixed these after the test for the trucks that were exempt from the AIR equipment but underwent the RPO YF5 emissions test? Looks like original Soft Ray glass.

From a sort of survivor until recently one family owned BB C20 on eBay (love that two tone): https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Chevro...QAAOSwHflftFrx

[DeadheadNM]

Looks like other vehicles used the same. Here’s a reproduction example for a Camaro

[Sheepdip]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

The truck is in my garage in California.
4k later in importing and enclosed carrier shipping. All had been checked to be sure in can come to California. We were givien the ok to do as planned. The day we were literally being handed our plates. The lady asked her boss what to do with the old plates. Puts a call into Sac. Town, and they put a hold on everything and requested more things. There is a difference between smog and emissions.
Ca. DMV says the following for emissions. "Evidence of compliance with California emissions standards (1968 year-model and newer gasoline-powered vehicles and 1980 year-model and newer diesel-powered vehicles)."

As for the truck. It still has the same 70 gmc with 402 engine. Numbers match. But Father in law made the outside trim and and grill a 72 cheyenne. It was his favorite truck and closest to it was the gmc and he did the rest.

I can shed some light on this as I went thru a bunch of Kalifornia DMV and Air Resources Board BS/hoops a couple of years ago...but that's for another story.

In Kalifornia any vehicle up to 1965 is a free for all.. do as you please no smog specs even exist prior to 1966.

In Kalifornia any vehicle from 1966 to 1975 are not currently called in or given a semi-annual smog test. Most call that smog exempt it actually is not true.

In Kalifornia should your vehicle ever end up in front of Air Resources Board aka/Smog Referee, however referenced CHP, DMV etc and your vehicle falls into 1966-1975 year range.
You are required to have every piece of smog equipment that it was manufactured with intact and operating to pass smog for the vehicles year requirements. Smog equipment and the results that were acceptable varied from 66-75.

And believe me these guys at ARB like to split atoms....I actually think they get off on it.

[Sheepdip]

[QUOTE=DeadheadNM;8837248]Take a look at this GM windshield decal.

Could it be that GM affixed these after the test for the trucks that were exempt from the AIR equipment but underwent the RPO YF5 emissions test? Looks like original Soft Ray glass.

No actually the CHP used to set up sites and would randomly pull vehicles in and check things like turn signals, brake lights, head lights, horn, wipers etc

That was more of a road worthy safety sticker, if you already had one on the windshield they flagged you on thru.

[DeadheadNM]

I’m pointing out the GM decal not the CHP decal but that’s interesting to know.

[sloGMC]

I'm not sure where this thread is going, but if anyone has questions regarding what emissions equipment were installed for various models years the service manuals should have a small section dedicated to it. For '71, PCV and C.C.S. were the only "installed" emissions equipment for 20 and 30 series trucks. Evaporative Control System (the tank and fuel bowl vent tubes to charcoal canister) are only for series 10.

[Sheepdip]

Smog pumps or A.I.R's were first required in Kalifornia in 1967 and they ran till about 1975 or so when the Catalytic Converters were introduced.
Different trucks/cars had different rules e.g. C10, C20, C30 also different engine sizes entered into the equation also so it's a twisted tale to get it all straight in your head for sure if that's even possible.

Rumor has it too (and I could be 180 out) that the 402's we find in our trucks from the factory was a GM smog game, seems 400 Cu. In. and below was the cutoff for anything smog related such as compression etc. The 402 Cu. In. put them above that threshold.

[72c20customcamper]

Originally Posted by Sheepdip

Smog pumps or A.I.R's were first required in Kalifornia in 1967 and they ran till about 1975 or so when the Catalytic Converters were introduced.
Different trucks/cars had different rules e.g. C10, C20, C30 also different engine sizes entered into the equation also so it's a twisted tale to get it all straight in your head for sure if that's even possible.

Rumor has it too (and I could be 180 out) that the 402's we find in our trucks from the factory was a GM smog game, seems 400 Cu. In. and below was the cutoff for anything smog related such as compression etc. The 402 Cu. In. put them above that threshold.

Yes it was a loophole alot of manufacturers used . GM 396 went to 402, AMC 390 to 401 not sure what Ford did . Emissions were less stringent on 400 ci and over.

Vin plates can be removed and replaced on the same vehicle example either doing a restoration or replacing a door post because of an accident . We did it at the body shop for older and newer cars. Newer cars were for dash replacements. The documents and inspections from DMV and State Police must be retained with the vehicle.


." While I am fixing up an old car, am I allowed to restore a damaged VIN stamp?

Yes. Vehicle Code section 10750 specifically allows registered owners to refurbish the original identification number of a vehicle or part. However, the law also states that you must first receive the permission of the DMV. If you have questions on how to do this, you should speak with an attorney who is familiar with how to request the DMV’s permission to restore a VIN stamp"

https://www.wklaw.com/practice-areas...803-and-10750/