Starter Overheating/ HAMMERTIME, LOL

[landpro00]

Hi all!!

Well, I've been having this problem with my truck since I got it. Does OK in the cooler winter weather, but usually have to replace the solenoid AT LEAST once every summer. The engine compartment gets so hot you can barely stand to put air in the front tires.

My truck has a 454 that was fuel injected, but have recently changed it over to carb. setup due to other issues.

I've tried several things including: new radiator, new thermostat, spark plugs(currently using plug with .045 gap), timing check( currently set at about 8). Nothing helped. I had purchased a starter shield from GM, as there isn't one on it, but couldn't figure out how to mount it and apparently threw it away 'cause I looked for it the other day and couldn't find it.

Anyway, was just wondering if anyone else has had this problem or can maybe point me in some other directions to try?

I did read an article somewhere that said improper advance settings in the distributer can cause overheating, can anyone confirm this and if it's true, are all distributers adjustable and if not how can I tell if mine is. It's not a factory distributer and I'm not sure who makes it. All I can tell you is that it's blue, if that's any help.

Any advice appreciated and sorry for the lengthy post!!!

[Nvbowtie]

An article I read a while back;

So your Chevy is experiencing hot start problems. You've ruled out the starter as the culprit, or replaced it entirely, you've checked all the connections but you still experience those no start conditions. What to do next? Add a Ford Starter Solenoid to your Chevy of course!
It worked for chevy, it can work for you. Chevrolet offered a remote solenoid for their motor homes for the very same reason.
Why? Because when wire gets warmer, its resistance goes up. Which means, when things are toasty warm your starter is not getting enough juice to activate the (on starter) solenoid from the original "start" wire. The wire is essentially acting like a ballast resistor. As well, the starter heat soak creates its own set of unique problems. Wiring in a Ford Solenoid 'My Way' will alleviate the wire voltage drop problem by giving the starter mounted solenoid full battery potential when you turn the key.
What you need to do;
· Get a Ford starter solenoid of course. =-)
o These units ground through the bracket. For fool proof grounds run a well grounded wire to one of the screws you use to secure the solenoid to the firewall.
o If you are adamant about not having any ford parts on your General Motors product, simply visit your favorite AC Delco parts house and purchase p/n U939 (the item pictured above).
o You can use just about any ford starter solenoid, later model cars came with a stubby unit with all the terminals opposite the mounting flange, such as found on 1987 and newer Ford Crown Vics and Mercury Grand Marquis. (until 1996 or so when Ford went to the starter mounted solenoid like the Chevy your converting. Go figure.)
· Relocate ALL the wires that are currently connected to the BAT terminal on your starter (the large terminal) to the 'hot' side of the ford solenoid (that’s the side connected to the battery, typically the large post to the left on the ford solenoid)
o This will allow you to relocate the wires away from the (hot) engine block
· Relocate the 'start' wire on the starter solenoid (small terminal closest to the engine) to the 'S' terminal on the ford solenoid (if using the relay as pictured above, the S terminal is usually the one on the left)
· IF you are still using a points ignition system relocate the bypass wire (small terminal furthest from engine block) to the 'I' terminal on the ford solenoid.
· Run a new heavy gauge wire from the HOT side of the ford solenoid to the BAT terminal on the starter (the large terminal).
o Yes, that’s correct, the bat terminal will be hot at all times like the original hookup
· Now, for what makes this a ford solenoid conversion "My Way", run at least an 8 gauge wire from the cold side of the ford solenoid to the 'S' terminal on the starter. (That’s the large lug on the right of the ford solenoid to the small terminal closest to the engine block on the starter).
o because many of the no start problems are related to excess voltage drop on the original 'start' wire and a hot starter, this method of wiring allows full battery voltage to reach the starter solenoid.
o the ford solenoid does not require anywhere near as much current to activate, therefore the voltage drop problem is essential irrelevant.
That’s about all there is to adding a remote solenoid to your GM. A couple advantages to having the ford solenoid,
-its a lot easier to "start the car with a screwdriver" since all the terminals are up on the firewall.
-my favorite, disconnect the wires that run to the starter from the ford solenoid and you only need to drop out the starter from the bottom, no fiddling around while lying under the car to disconnect the wiring from the starter, especially if you have header tubes cleverly designed to be in the way.
Wiring Diagram;

[rays68]

Try the method nvbowtie is talking about I had the same problem with my starter so I tried the ford solenoid trick and it worked. The only problem was I waited to long to do it so I had to replace the starter as well its going on about 8 months and no problems so far

[landpro00]

Hadn't thought about that, might give it a try. Thanks!!!

Is that p/n u939, for the ford solenoid or a similar GM unit.

Where would be a good place to mount it. My firewall is getting kinda cramped already, especially after installing a mallory fuel pressure regulator a couple of weeks ago. Could it be mounted on the inside of the fender or something, like near the coolant tank or something.

THANKS FOR INPUT GUYS!!!

[landpro00]

Also, it kinda sounds like that is supposed to solve a wiring problem.

My problem is that it gets too hot and locks up. I have to keep a hammer in my truck so that when I have to stop somewhere I can take the hammer and hit it a few times and then it will start up.

Am I just reading the article wrong or what? Sorry, I'm no mechanic, just have kinda learned a few things through trial and error over the years.

[landpro00]

Yup, me again!!! LOL!!!

Well, I was looking through my Summit catalog and noticed they have a remote mount solenoid you can purchase(p/n SUM-G1750). Anyone ever used it? Would it be as good as the ford one?

It has a "remote starter switch" available for it. What is the switch for and would I need it?


THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!

[rays68]

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/

Try this site it shows a drawing of how to do it and the part # for the solenoid
also reason to mount the solenoid in a different spot is because of the heat. Chevy starters has the solenoid mounted to the starter just a little to close to the headers so after it heats up to many times the starter dies also the hammer trick will only work so many times then your stuck on the side of the highway I know form experience that is why I went on to the next trick . I mounted mine on the inside fenderwell. good luck

[GMC1tondually4dr]

Why is your truck running so hot?

Maybe it is running too lean after you switched from FI to a carb?

Maybe the timing is off, retarded timing may make the engine run hot. Too much advance may make it hard to turn over.

If the starter locks up because of engine heat, try to get the engine to run cooler. Try to cure the hot engine problem first.

Did you change the distributor from a FI one to a regular one that came on an engine that had a carb?

Check the timing mark on the balancer against top dead center on your engine.

I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but maybe if the engine was not running so hot there would not be a starter problem

I like the idea of a Ford solenoid, maybe it's not necessary.

I have a 454 in my CrewCab Dually that pulls a 15,000# gooseneck trailer, if anything would get hot , that would. We have never experienced a starter lock up. The engine has over 200K miles so her tongue is hanging out after a long haul. No starter problems.

Just a thought and my .02

CCDually

[landpro00]

To answer 'GMC1tondually4dr's' questions, let me start by saying that it was doing the same thing before the carb. switch. Was hopeing the swap might fix this problem too, but it didn't. Like I stated in my first post, I have tried everything I can think of to fix the problem, believe me if I knew what was causing it I would fix that instead of doing the remote solenoid thing.

Don't think it's running to lean, the carb was supposedly adjusted by the shop that did the swap out.

Timing is currently set at about 8 advance.

Yes, they swapped the stock distributor out but not sure what the one they put in is. Probably one of the cheapest ones they could find. The only thing I can tell you is that it's blue and I don't think it's a GM part.

It cranks right up when cold or when hasn't been run for more than a few miles.

[landpro00]

Also, no one has answered my question yet about the cause possibly being the vacuum or mechanical advance setup of the distributor and how can I tell if mines adjustable or not.

Hate to be such a pest but trying to get as much input as possible.

THANKS EVERYONE!!!

[aliencheyenne]

The Ford solenoid will work. You are dealing with a heat soak problem. The other alternative is to get a mini starter and wrap it in a heat blanket (insurance). Both of these have worked for me.