CPP front Coilover Kit

[gt40racing]

Is anyone running the CPP front coilover kit? Looking for some feedback. Thanks

[68Stepbed]

I don't have it, but I haven't seen any real performance gains from it by those that do. In fact, I learned years ago to just stay away from anything from CPP.

[gt40racing]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

I don't have it, but I haven't seen any real performance gains from it by those that do. In fact, I learned years ago to just stay away from anything from CPP.

I definitely get what your saying.... just happen to be cleaning up parts after someone else....

[wickedred]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

I don't have it, but I haven't seen any real performance gains from it by those that do. In fact, I learned years ago to just stay away from anything from CPP.

I understand there are better options than CPP. I have looked at QA1 and RideTech both. As well as CPP. The Coil Over conversion front suspension is very similar in design with some Geometry difference's and such by all 3 companies.

What is the specific downfall of CPP? Geometry? Materials?

[gt40racing]

Originally Posted by wickedred

I understand there are better options than CPP. I have looked at QA1 and RideTech both. As well as CPP. The Coil Over conversion front suspension is very similar in design with some Geometry difference's and such by all 3 companies.

What is the specific downfall of CPP? Geometry? Materials?

I got the CPP front coilover kit today in the mail. Comes with standard black brackets, nuts and bolts. The shocks and coils are Viking which is nice stuff. The downfall of the kit is it comes with no directions and this hard to swallow sometimes for people. I was able to google and find a you tube install of the kit. Customer Service is non existent. I bought the rear coilover and I was shipped a wrong shock. I have yet to receive an exchange of this item. I ended up buying a replacement of the correct Viking shock from Summit Racing. That was another $200. Still waiting on the other shock. Emails never answered. I have about 4 out to them now... This is just my experience. I have used several of their products without issue.

[wickedred]

Originally Posted by gt40racing

I got the CPP front coilover kit today in the mail. Comes with standard black brackets, nuts and bolts. The shocks and coils are Viking which is nice stuff. The downfall of the kit is it comes with no directions and this hard to swallow sometimes for people. I was able to google and find a you tube install of the kit. Customer Service is non existent. I bought the rear coilover and I was shipped a wrong shock. I have yet to receive an exchange of this item. I ended up buying a replacement of the correct Viking shock from Summit Racing. That was another $200. Still waiting on the other shock. Emails never answered. I have about 4 out to them now... This is just my experience. I have used several of their products without issue.

Yeah, customer service is almost nonexistent these days

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by wickedred

Yeah, customer service is almost nonexistent these days

This is a CPP standard in my experiences w/them. I would not purchase anything from them unless there was no other option.

[68 P.O.S.]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

This is a CPP standard in my experiences w/them. I would not purchase anything from them unless there was no other option.

Add LMC to that list

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 68 P.O.S.

Add LMC to that list

Correct. If I cant source it elsewhere, sometimes I'll take the risk. I have done better @ LMC w/OBS truck related items.

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by wickedred

I understand there are better options than CPP. I have looked at QA1 and RideTech both. As well as CPP. The Coil Over conversion front suspension is very similar in design with some Geometry difference's and such by all 3 companies.

What is the specific downfall of CPP? Geometry? Materials?

So, in 2017, I was able to get the Total Cost Involved kit for my truck. I've been able to learn alot when it comes to suspension geometry and how it all works. I've also seen many of these products in action in the autocross field. I understand that many aren't after all-out handling performance, but they do want improvements over stock.

Here's what I'm seeing.

Ridetech may be the most expensive coilover conversion kit, but they have done extensive R&D and their stuff works very well with lots of victories to show for it.

QA1 seems to have a well made product, but I've not seen any major competitiveness from any of their products. They talk the talk in their advertisements, but nothing to back it up yet.

CPP.....well....they seem to be a bandwagon company. They just copy what others have done with no R&D to make sure anything works. The front is not a true captured coilover shock unit. Also, the shock and spring is way too short for any travel gains. The control arms are the same generic stuff they've always offered made to stock geometry specs, so there's still no gain in camber/caster/motion ratio. The rear system simply replaces the shocks with coilovers, but all in the stock location. In case you haven't heard by now, the rear shock location on the 63-72 trailing arm setup is an absolute horrible design. It was fine for guys hauling hay, feed, and seed for farm use in the 60s-70s, but there's no gain in the performance aspect. The design actually binds under certain conditions.
Let's not forget the terrible customer service from CPP that's actually been discussed already.

I try to tell people to shop around and RESEARCH before buying. Yes, some kits may be more expensive, but sometimes, you're not just buying a name, you're buying the time they took to make sure it's right.

I'll also add that everything TCI makes is made in house at their Ontario, CA, USA facility with USA steel. Nothing is outsourced from other companies and/or countries.

[gt40racing]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

So, in 2017, I was able to get the Total Cost Involved kit for my truck. I've been able to learn alot when it comes to suspension geometry and how it all works. I've also seen many of these products in action in the autocross field. I understand that many aren't after all-out handling performance, but they do want improvements over stock.

Here's what I'm seeing.

Ridetech may be the most expensive coilover conversion kit, but they have done extensive R&D and their stuff works very well with lots of victories to show for it.

QA1 seems to have a well made product, but I've not seen any major competitiveness from any of their products. They talk the talk in their advertisements, but nothing to back it up yet.

CPP.....well....they seem to be a bandwagon company. They just copy what others have done with no R&D to make sure anything works. The front is not a true captured coilover shock unit. Also, the shock and spring is way too short for any travel gains. The control arms are the same generic stuff they've always offered made to stock geometry specs, so there's still no gain in camber/caster/motion ratio. The rear system simply replaces the shocks with coilovers, but all in the stock location. In case you haven't heard by now, the rear shock location on the 63-72 trailing arm setup is an absolute horrible design. It was fine for guys hauling hay, feed, and seed for farm use in the 60s-70s, but there's no gain in the performance aspect. The design actually binds under certain conditions.
Let's not forget the terrible customer service from CPP that's actually been discussed already.

I try to tell people to shop around and RESEARCH before buying. Yes, some kits may be more expensive, but sometimes, you're not just buying a name, you're buying the time they took to make sure it's right.

I'll also add that everything TCI makes is made in house at their Ontario, CA, USA facility with USA steel. Nothing is outsourced from other companies and/or countries.

Great info. As a guy just building a street truck for occasion use. What would you recommend. I love seeing truck autocross but my objective is more of a shop truck, lowered with an LS setup. I am also learning a lot studying suspension geometry .... is this market a all or nothing situation?

[wickedred]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

So, in 2017, I was able to get the Total Cost Involved kit for my truck. I've been able to learn alot when it comes to suspension geometry and how it all works. I've also seen many of these products in action in the autocross field. I understand that many aren't after all-out handling performance, but they do want improvements over stock.

Here's what I'm seeing.

Ridetech may be the most expensive coilover conversion kit, but they have done extensive R&D and their stuff works very well with lots of victories to show for it.

QA1 seems to have a well made product, but I've not seen any major competitiveness from any of their products. They talk the talk in their advertisements, but nothing to back it up yet.

CPP.....well....they seem to be a bandwagon company. They just copy what others have done with no R&D to make sure anything works. The front is not a true captured coilover shock unit. Also, the shock and spring is way too short for any travel gains. The control arms are the same generic stuff they've always offered made to stock geometry specs, so there's still no gain in camber/caster/motion ratio. The rear system simply replaces the shocks with coilovers, but all in the stock location. In case you haven't heard by now, the rear shock location on the 63-72 trailing arm setup is an absolute horrible design. It was fine for guys hauling hay, feed, and seed for farm use in the 60s-70s, but there's no gain in the performance aspect. The design actually binds under certain conditions.
Let's not forget the terrible customer service from CPP that's actually been discussed already.

I try to tell people to shop around and RESEARCH before buying. Yes, some kits may be more expensive, but sometimes, you're not just buying a name, you're buying the time they took to make sure it's right.

I'll also add that everything TCI makes is made in house at their Ontario, CA, USA facility with USA steel. Nothing is outsourced from other companies and/or countries.

Awesome explanation. Thank You.

I am not adverse to spending $$$$.
I bought a Flat Out Engineering crossmember and then sourced all the parts less the rack and pinion. All only to find out you have to raise the engine up, which will kill driveline angles. The other option is pushing the engine back into the firewall like Dustin Reed did with this suspension and his C10. While this works its not 100% ideal for me. Still not out of the question though.

Hunter Beacon's C10 runs the QA1 C10 Suspension. Met him at the Pro Touring Truck Shootout in Bowling Green. He was running in the T2 class and the truck was very impressive for a bolt on suspension. I did discuss some improvements he was planning.

I have seen RideTech on plenty of trucks. No doubt it works. I was leaning towards their front Coilover conversion and No limits Trailing arms rear suspension.

Your description of CPP hits the nail on the head. Maybe okay for a cruiser...

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

So, in 2017, I was able to get the Total Cost Involved kit for my truck. I've been able to learn alot when it comes to suspension geometry and how it all works. I've also seen many of these products in action in the autocross field. I understand that many aren't after all-out handling performance, but they do want improvements over stock.

Here's what I'm seeing.

Ridetech may be the most expensive coilover conversion kit, but they have done extensive R&D and their stuff works very well with lots of victories to show for it.

QA1 seems to have a well made product, but I've not seen any major competitiveness from any of their products. They talk the talk in their advertisements, but nothing to back it up yet.

CPP.....well....they seem to be a bandwagon company. They just copy what others have done with no R&D to make sure anything works. The front is not a true captured coilover shock unit. Also, the shock and spring is way too short for any travel gains. The control arms are the same generic stuff they've always offered made to stock geometry specs, so there's still no gain in camber/caster/motion ratio. The rear system simply replaces the shocks with coilovers, but all in the stock location. In case you haven't heard by now, the rear shock location on the 63-72 trailing arm setup is an absolute horrible design. It was fine for guys hauling hay, feed, and seed for farm use in the 60s-70s, but there's no gain in the performance aspect. The design actually binds under certain conditions.
Let's not forget the terrible customer service from CPP that's actually been discussed already.

I try to tell people to shop around and RESEARCH before buying. Yes, some kits may be more expensive, but sometimes, you're not just buying a name, you're buying the time they took to make sure it's right.

I'll also add that everything TCI makes is made in house at their Ontario, CA, USA facility with USA steel. Nothing is outsourced from other companies and/or countries.

While I agree w/the post in general, this is incorrect.

The CPP tubular arms do offer geometry improvements; it's just not in how the arms are 'built'. Their geometry improvement appears to be obtained the same way you would get it from stock lower control arms.... By shifting it forward.

When I looked @ their install info, I could see the distance variation (fore/aft) of the control arm shaft vs the x-member in images. So there is a benefit of additional Caster but it's nothing one couldn't get w/their stock arms as well.

[wickedred]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

While I agree w/the post in general, this is incorrect.

The CPP tubular arms do offer geometry improvements; it's just not in how the arms are 'built'. Their geometry improvement appears to be obtained the same way you would get it from stock lower control arms.... By shifting it forward.

When I looked @ their install info, I could see the distance variation (fore/aft) of the control arm shaft vs the x-member in images. So there is a benefit of additional Caster but it's nothing one couldn't get w/their stock arms as well.

That is the explanation I was given the signal time I got someone on the phone with CPP. The lower Coilover mount is the issue for me. I could rework that to allow longer shock travel. Then I figure run into the same issue the QA1 truck above was having. The lower shock mount is an issue when it comes to ground clearance. This boils down to give and take and the purpose of the truck in general though.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by wickedred

That is the explanation I was given the signal time I got someone on the phone with CPP. The lower Coilover mount is the issue for me. I could rework that to allow longer shock travel. Then I figure run into the same issue the QA1 truck above was having. The lower shock mount is an issue when it comes to ground clearance. This boils down to give and take and the purpose of the truck in general though.

I actually thought the CPP front 'C10 C/O Conversion Kit' captured the C/O spring @ both ends but just looked @ install images only to learn they're not captured @ the top as 68Stepbed mentioned.
Yet another reason for me to not care for the kit

I will admit their a-arms aren't 'bad'....
I just feel the tech about them offering geometry benefits is misleading since they basically come with 'The Caster Mod' done for you which = tubular versions of stock arms

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by gt40racing

Great info. As a guy just building a street truck for occasion use. What would you recommend. I love seeing truck autocross but my objective is more of a shop truck, lowered with an LS setup. I am also learning a lot studying suspension geometry .... is this market a all or nothing situation?

In all honesty, something like the Ridetech StreetGrip setup or just a simple lowering kit would work great for just a shop truck/cruiser. If you wanted to step up your game, there's obviously the coilover conversion kits, which offer upgraded geometry built in, plus the coilover shocks are "tuneable" by either a single rebound, or double adjustable rebound/compression, plus the valving can be changed to offer better ride quality or for better performance on the track.

Of course, then there's the full bolt in suspension kits like TCI, NoLimit, Porterbuilt, etc. These can offer lots of advantages over simple swaps, and pretty much always include rack and pinion steering.

It just comes down to budget, goals, and preference.

Originally Posted by wickedred

Awesome explanation. Thank You.

I am not adverse to spending $$$$.
I bought a Flat Out Engineering crossmember and then sourced all the parts less the rack and pinion. All only to find out you have to raise the engine up, which will kill driveline angles. The other option is pushing the engine back into the firewall like Dustin Reed did with this suspension and his C10. While this works its not 100% ideal for me. Still not out of the question though.

Hunter Beacon's C10 runs the QA1 C10 Suspension. Met him at the Pro Touring Truck Shootout in Bowling Green. He was running in the T2 class and the truck was very impressive for a bolt on suspension. I did discuss some improvements he was planning.

I have seen RideTech on plenty of trucks. No doubt it works. I was leaning towards their front Coilover conversion and No limits Trailing arms rear suspension.

Your description of CPP hits the nail on the head. Maybe okay for a cruiser...

So Hunter is the only guy I personally know on the QA1 system and have seen his truck in action. I was also at the shootout, and at LS Fest. Hunter's truck does pretty well, and with some seat time and some other upgrades, he'll get faster. Wes Kohnen in the green stepside won the T2 class and he has the Ridetech coilover kit on his truck. his driving has improved dramatically over the past couple years. He was actually faster than me this year at both LS Fest, and PTTS.

I've struggled this season due to lack of seat time. Also, only being on 275 tires compared to so many on 315's and 335's kept me in the underdog position. That will be remedied in a few weeks. I just got 18x11 Rocket Attack wheels for my truck.

Originally Posted by SCOTI

While I agree w/the post in general, this is incorrect.

The CPP tubular arms do offer geometry improvements; it's just not in how the arms are 'built'. Their geometry improvement appears to be obtained the same way you would get it from stock lower control arms.... By shifting it forward.

When I looked @ their install info, I could see the distance variation (fore/aft) of the control arm shaft vs the x-member in images. So there is a benefit of additional Caster but it's nothing one couldn't get w/their stock arms as well.

I didn't know they offered the caster mod built in, but that's only a small portion of the geometry correction needed. Also, like you said, that can be done with stock control arms, so it's not that much of an advantage.

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by wickedred

I have seen RideTech on plenty of trucks. No doubt it works. I was leaning towards their front Coilover conversion and No limits Trailing arms rear suspension.

This is what I have in my 68. It hooks hard out of the hole, and in the corners. https://totalcostinvolved.com/produc...ar-suspension/

My son is probably going to do a TCI torque arm configuration on his 84.

[gt40racing]

I am very happy with the CPP setup. I just called and got their lower arms for coilovers so I can have the complete set of tubulars. My truck is just something to drive to work and hang out.... no track time etc. I think CPP meets what I am looking for.... the Viking shocks are nice. When you break it down... nice shocks and tubular arms that are better than stock.... If you do not need tech support... this is a good option...