Making a stock height truck handle a little better

[cwcarpenter98]

Please forgive me if this has already been answered in another thread. If so, please direct me to that.

After reading through the over 2,000 post "make it handle" thread a bit and gathering some info, I have a question or two.

Has anyone tried some of this stuff on a stock height truck? I see a ton of info related to drop spindles and such, but I'm not planning on lowering my truck. I do want it to handle a little better than stock though.

Current set up: Factory, 63 front and rear suspension. Squarebody disc brakes from ball joints out. Manual steering. I think the camber, caster, and toe is all pretty much stock. Added 1 1/4" front sway bar from Squarebody. No rear sway bar at the moment, but was thinking about adding one.
In the next couple of months, I'll be installing 15X8 steelies, 30x9.5 tires, and stock hubcaps. Currently have 15x8 truck rallies, 255/70 tires

From what I've read so far, it's looking like I need to do a caster and camber mod to help out with the handling. Will switching the upper ball joints to the bottom of the A arm for the "tall" ball joint effect be worth-wile for more negative camber? I think I'm at about 0* camber right now. Would like to have close to -.5*

On the caster, is the best way to get a least a little more than stock to drill the different locating notch?

Thank you!

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

I have done it to a slightly dropped C20 rclb to make it C10 height.

It works very well, but will lack a little snappiness if you will since the body has little more leverage to roll.

On my truck I ran both 255/60R17 front with 275/60r17 rear, and 265/70r16 front with 285/70R16 rear. The 16's were better in some ways since I used the pyo rims which were 18 pounds vs 45 for the 17" steel rims.

Either way it was a great truck to bomb dirt roads, and drift it around corners. At one point it had a 350 Vortec with a 95 LT1 cam, and springs. Along with full bolt on. A strong 300hp/400tq, and easily revible to 6000rpm. It would freak people out a Grandpa's truck could hook a drift, and hold it.

Like any combo for handling quality shocks, and tires go a long way first. My preference is for KYB's, but Bilstiens are better if you have the money.

Then next is a put the engine on a diet, and it needs to be able to pull freely to 5500-6000 rpm easily. Which is a basic cam with nearly stock idle quality. This way it doesn't lay over to much. 454's are great, but require more work for the twisties.

You don't have to get stupid with weight loss, but planning will make it easier to avoid adding to much weight.

Don't forget to get a good steering wheel, and power steering box/pump combo. If it don't feel right in your hand. It will be harder to push.

I never did the ball joint mod you speak of. I just made my A arms level when I modified the cross member like a Gulstrand mod. Plus move the lower A arm forward 1 inch in relation to the upper.

As for the front bar I have ran both 1 and 1 1/4 inch, and liked both alot.

Personally myself I prefer no rear bar due to the way I drive. I like to throttle oversteer. They make the rear end feel less lively to me, and some 60's Camaro trans-am racers ran with out them too. It is a personal preference that you need to decide on, but if you tow alot. They are a great mod

[cwcarpenter98]

I have been towing a fair amount recently, so rear sway bar is on the list, but will have to reroute exhaust to use the bar I picked from a junkyard.

Right now there's not any budget or plans to do motor work. Eventually I'll rebuild the 283 I swapped out, but the 283 in it now works well for what I'm trying to do with it.

I'm mainly inquiring to see if any of the suggestions front suspension wise are worth doing at stock height, without any lowering

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

I always run turn downs on trucks for more mid range. So I am not sure if it fits over the axle with a sway bar, but I do know a spare makes it harder.

What I would do is get another cross member that you can mod in your free time. Do what ever you dreamed of, and swap it in when convenient with you. Then you could use polyurathane bushings, and have it all done pretty quick.

Stock height does not mean it handles poorly. Quality tires, and shocks polish turds very well. Then you can try dialing in spring rates. All items are a few hours work max.

That is my plan on my 83 step.

Other plans I have are probably above what your looking for as I intend to change alot of stuff for minimal changes.

[cwcarpenter98]

If I wasn't starting to save up money for getting my own house in the next 2 to 3 years, I probably would be more willing to do an all out front suspension refresh with fancier parts, but for now, going to stick with the wear parts that are only a couple years old and the stock springs. I have the stock, 63 control arms still. My disc brake kit that I used was a kit that replaced everything from the ball joints out.
I haven't replaced the control arm bushings yet though, so that is probably something I should do.

Exhaust plan is to run a single, 2.5" pipe on the outside of the driver's frame rail. That way, I can keep the exhaust above the bottom of the frame and run it over the axle where I don't have to deal with sway bar and panhard bar. I think that size pipe will be big enough for the 283 and better than the single, 2" exhaust on it now. I like my exhaust going out the side in a stock fashion.

Thank you for the suggestions!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

Please forgive me if this has already been answered in another thread. If so, please direct me to that.

After reading through the over 2,000 post "make it handle" thread a bit and gathering some info, I have a question or two.

Has anyone tried some of this stuff on a stock height truck? I see a ton of info related to drop spindles and such, but I'm not planning on lowering my truck. I do want it to handle a little better than stock though.

Current set up: Factory, 63 front and rear suspension. Squarebody disc brakes from ball joints out. Manual steering. I think the camber, caster, and toe is all pretty much stock. Added 1 1/4" front sway bar from Squarebody. No rear sway bar at the moment, but was thinking about adding one.
In the next couple of months, I'll be installing 15X8 steelies, 30x9.5 tires, and stock hubcaps. Currently have 15x8 truck rallies, 255/70 tires

From what I've read so far, it's looking like I need to do a caster and camber mod to help out with the handling. Will switching the upper ball joints to the bottom of the A arm for the "tall" ball joint effect be worth-wile for more negative camber? I think I'm at about 0* camber right now. Would like to have close to -.5*

On the caster, is the best way to get a least a little more than stock to drill the different locating notch?

Thank you!

I have been towing a fair amount recently, so rear sway bar is on the list, but will have to reroute exhaust to use the bar I picked from a junkyard.

Right now there's not any budget or plans to do motor work. Eventually I'll rebuild the 283 I swapped out, but the 283 in it now works well for what I'm trying to do with it.

I'm mainly inquiring to see if any of the suggestions front suspension wise are worth doing at stock height, without any lowering

If I wasn't starting to save up money for getting my own house in the next 2 to 3 years, I probably would be more willing to do an all out front suspension refresh with fancier parts, but for now, going to stick with the wear parts that are only a couple years old and the stock springs. I have the stock, 63 control arms still. My disc brake kit that I used was a kit that replaced everything from the ball joints out.
I haven't replaced the control arm bushings yet though, so that is probably something I should do.

Exhaust plan is to run a single, 2.5" pipe on the outside of the driver's frame rail. That way, I can keep the exhaust above the bottom of the frame and run it over the axle where I don't have to deal with sway bar and panhard bar. I think that size pipe will be big enough for the 283 and better than the single, 2" exhaust on it now. I like my exhaust going out the side in a stock fashion.

The Caster Mod helps achieving the increased target easier using fewer shims. On this front set-up, re-drilling/re-locating the divot is an easy way to get it done.

You should be able to achieve the -.5 Camber as well. If they can achieve +.5 Camber w/adding shims, -.5 will just require fewer shims.

The Camber is set within the alignment. The Camber curve is impacted by the position of the a-arm (chassis pivot point vs. BJ pivot point). These trucks have fairly tall spindles & you already have Squarebody BJ's so you could add a tall upper BJ.

I like the Bilsteins for the ride quality.

Your front sway-bar sounds good. The rear bar option is not a 'must have' for better handling. It would probably help for your towing needs.

Spring rates will benefit you for a firmer ride but I wouldn't swap anything until I had the other items addressed first. If I felt the goal was not achieved, only then would I seek a slighter higher spring rate.

Exhaust revisions sound good.

[cwcarpenter98]

Thank you, Scoti.

I want to get an alignment done on the truck after I install the new tires. I haven't had an alignment done in several years now. Whoops

The control arm bushings are the only front end wear components that I have not replaced yet, so I'm thinking I should go ahead and replace them before I get the new tires on so I only have to pay for one alignment.

So plan for the first attempt is new control arm bushings (keeping the 63 style) with the caster mod and move my upper ball joint from mounting on top of the control arm to mounting on the bottom side. If I discover the upper ball joints are bad (shouldn't be since they are only about 5 years old) then I can change out to the taller ball joint.

That plan is something I think I can achieve within the 4 days I have available to work on it.

Exhaust modifications and rear sway bar will be done later

[cwcarpenter98]

Ok, another question that's related. With the additional caster, will that make it even harder to steer with manual steering? I have a Redhead Steering gear, so I'm not planning on converting to power any time soon. If the caster mod makes it harder to steer, I might not do it unless I convert to power. If it doesn't make the steering input worse, then I'll go ahead with it

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

Ok, another question that's related. With the additional caster, will that make it even harder to steer with manual steering? I have a Redhead Steering gear, so I'm not planning on converting to power any time soon. If the caster mod makes it harder to steer, I might not do it unless I convert to power. If it doesn't make the steering input worse, then I'll go ahead with it

Increasing the amount of positive caster will increase steering effort and straight line tracking, as well as improve high speed stability and cornering effectiveness. Positive caster also increases tire lean when cornering (almost like having more negative camber) as the steering angle is increased.

That being said, I can't say how much of an increase is actually noticed since it's kind of a subjective thing (one might notice where another doesn't).

[cwcarpenter98]

That makes sense, thank you. The good thing is that if I do the caster mod and it ends up making the steering input much harder than what I would prefer, I can always switch it back since the factory alignment hole will still be there. Looks like I need to figure out a way to drill the new locating hole

[cwcarpenter98]

I had to focus on my classes for the last couple months in the semester. I was able to use a friend's drill press to drill the new LCA shafts. You 100% need a 5/8" hole because the locating rivet in the crossmember is about that size.

For the mod, I only needed to grind down the LCA a smidge to clear the saddle. While I was doing it, I went ahead and upgraded to the 9/16" u bolts. Thankfully, there was enough space to get the nuts torqued, so I didn't have to hammer the crossmember in. Once I get the driver's side back together, I'll knock out the passenger side.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Looking good. I just got another crossmember to rebuild for my truck. Since my tires are not much longer for this earth, and my bushings shot. I have to do a 2-fer.

What ever your goals are be mindful of what you really do, and want to do. Do you can hitbthe target

[cwcarpenter98]

Ok, so now I have a problem. With my stock height truck, these are the numbers before the alignment. I was not expecting that much initial caster before adjustments, but I also wasn't expecting that much positive camber. I know that as the camber decreases, and then goes more negative, the caster will also decrease, so I'm mainly focused on decreasing the camber.

Unfortunately, the upper control arms are currently sitting with the stock bowl shaped on one side, flat on the other side washers on all four studs and two shims on top of that for the two rear studs. The shop wants the front of the UCAs to go farther in to the frame to bring the camber within spec.
On the right front, one of those thick, bowl shaped washers is about half the thickness of the other 3, so I believe that's why that side has much less positive camber and caster.

Have any of y'all run into this issue, and if so, how did you resolve it?

[cwcarpenter98]

Hey guys, guess what, I did a BIG dumb. I put the upper control arms on the wrong side

Just gotta laugh about it at this point

I know what I'll be doing in the morning.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

Hey guys, guess what, I did a BIG dumb. I put the upper control arms on the wrong side

Just gotta laugh about it at this point

I know what I'll be doing in the morning.

It happens far more often than you'd think (and what people will admit to).

What static Camber are they targeting?

[cwcarpenter98]

SCOTI,

The alignment specs on the machine printout want the stock specs. I have requested -.5* of camber.

I also looked back through some old pictures, and it looks like I put the UCAs back on yesterday exactly how I had pulled them off. I believe the previous owner had already put them on the wrong sides, which also explains why the truck had so much positive camber when I first purchased it that the shoulders of the tires were worn out bad. Hopefully my mom can find the folder of all the stuff I did to the truck early on and that the alignment printout from the first alignment I did 5 years ago is still in that folder

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

SCOTI,

The alignment specs on the machine printout want the stock specs. I have requested -.5* of camber.

I also looked back through some old pictures, and it looks like I put the UCAs back on yesterday exactly how I had pulled them off. I believe the previous owner had already put them on the wrong sides, which also explains why the truck had so much positive camber when I first purchased it that the shoulders of the tires were worn out bad. Hopefully my mom can find the folder of all the stuff I did to the truck early on and that the alignment printout from the first alignment I did 5 years ago is still in that folder

Excellent.

[cwcarpenter98]

Ok, alignment is done.

The passenger side is exactly how I wanted it. The driver's side is a little bit off. I can attribute that to the passenger side has the cone shaped washer on the front stud shaved down to about half the height of the rear washer. The driver's side cone shaped washers are still the stock thickness. I would have to machine down one of those washers, but I don't have that capability here unless I pay someone to do it.

Overall though, I highly recommend the caster mod for any truck, whether stock height or lowered. Frankentruck goes down the road straight with no play in the steering at speed. Every time I hit a bump in the road, the wheels stay in the direction they were pointed. No bump steer at all. Any c10 I do suspension work on will have the caster mod, and yes, I'll make sure to put the upper control arms on the correct side the first time

[SCOTI]

Glad you're happy w/the results.

[cwcarpenter98]

Ok, a new report on the caster mod now that I've driven a bit more. I took an hour drive to a junkyard to get some parts. It had a couple miles of interstate driving. I don't have to steer between the lines anymore! There's no more heavy steering fatigue, so I definitely feel like I could drive all day without getting really tired. A couple years ago, I would have been completely worn out from driving over an hour one way. I definitely recommend this mod. The parking lot turning has not gotten harder, and almost seems a little easier. I believe that since the arms had been swapped before I purchased the truck, there was already some additional caster, but I had way too much positive camber. Unfortunately, I can't find the alignment sheet from 6 years ago, so I can only guess at this point.

I definitely recommend this mod, even on a bone stock truck