This Message Board

[special-K]

This 88-98 message board reminds me of this website when it first kicked off. Or I should say when I first came to it in '04. It was all one message board and mostly 67-72. These trucks were still new or newish. Still in the first years of the 99-ups. The posts were very mixed in content. There were "look at the nice truck" threads but mostly posts by members looking for help fixing their 67-72 truck.** Oops! (read below first)
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That's how this MB feels now. The 67-72s got to be so popular and became a lot about high dollar trucks. I imagine this MB will change in the same way. But, while these trucks are simple compared to newer trucks, they are also not as simple to diagnose as the earlier ones. So it's great to have people here who can help, and there will probably always be a demand for that as more people turn their eyes to these very great years of GM Trucks. Even when new I saw these as the next great classics comparable to 67-72s in their step ahead of what came before while retaining a long lasting classic vibe.

** This (vvv) belongs back there (^^^)
The big difference is back then I had a lot of knowledge to bring on the 67-72s, on these trucks not so much. Back in '04 I was driving two of these trucks and they just went. You don't learn much when the truck just goes and goes. Both my trucks were 6.5TDs and I did have some knowledge on those since I had been running 6.2s since '89. My first forum experience was on The Diesel Page, a GM diesel forum. I found this place through their "links" section.

[SCOTI]

These trucks are the popular 'want' for enthusiasts so I'm betting the traffic increases. For those that aren't techs, I find this statement to be very true though:

You don't learn much when the truck just goes and goes

[Boog]

These 88-98s are the new classics, are they not? Therefore the interest in them will increase. There is a segment of truck enthusiasts who call these years the OBS (old body style). I guess they are but for trucks this modern looking that label sounds odd, to me.
After having my 91 for a few months now and comparing it to my 06 and 09 trucks, there are distinct differences between them. The ride and drive are much different.
I know the nice 88-98s prices are running up now. Parts are plenty, new and used so they should continue to climb.
I've visited a couple of other GMT400 forums and the traffic seems to be about like this one.

[ChevyTech]

I was wondering if the lower number of posts compared to a few years ago has to do with more information being available by searching old posts as well as the accumulation of information other places on the web.

I do think this vintage of truck will be very sought after as the years go by.

[Just call me Sean]

OBDI is my favorite. Fuel injection without a bunch of other intrusive crap. Most of my stuff is and was GM TBI so I'm pretty familiar with them. I don't know carbs, never figured them out. Just swap on a new one. But these are very simple, not much to go wrong. Many don't even have smog pumps. No special code reader needed. While the codes are simpler they still give you a direction to go for diagnosis. I had an 85 S10 Blazer with a carbureted 2.8. I wired it for and installed a 92 Firebird 3.1 (TPI). I have a TBI 350 harness waiting for me to find a project to put it in. My 99 though, wow what a difference. Way more get up and go. So I'm digging into OBDII now too. When I got it I rewired it so it would run (bad security system) so I'm thinking of upgrading the computer with the next generation one since it doesn't seem too hard.

But most are antiques now so I think they've reached the point where the value stopped dropping and has started to climb. Still easier to find. I sold my two squares and my Lemans to buy my house. I figured I would get another later but they are getting fewer and farther in between and I'm cheap so nothing yet. I did get another Lemans though, although it's far too gone for me to do anything with.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

These trucks are the popular 'want' for enthusiasts so I'm betting the traffic increases. For those that aren't techs, I find this statement to be very true though:

Yep, that's me. I'm starting to learn now that these trucks have aged.

Originally Posted by ChevyTech

I was wondering if the lower number of posts compared to a few years ago has to do with more information being available by searching old posts as well as the accumulation of information other places on the web.

I do think this vintage of truck will be very sought after as the years go by.

You are probably right. The information is here to be found, thanks to you and a few others with thorough knowledge and experience with these trucks

Originally Posted by Boog

These 88-98s are the new classics, are they not? Therefore the interest in them will increase. There is a segment of truck enthusiasts who call these years the OBS (old body style). I guess they are but for trucks this modern looking that label sounds odd, to me.
After having my 91 for a few months now and comparing it to my 06 and 09 trucks, there are distinct differences between them. The ride and drive are much different.
I know the nice 88-98s prices are running up now. Parts are plenty, new and used so they should continue to climb.
I've visited a couple of other GMT400 forums and the traffic seems to be about like this one.

Yeah, I don't use those monikers like OBS, GMT400, full-size, or even Squarebody. I say the years just as we always have since long before any of those terms were used. To me, those were conceived by newbies (relative to my life of GM Trucks) or just those who came along since around or after the turn of the century. OBS means your focus is on the new body style. In 88-91 we didn't call the R/V series OBS. If you call these trucks fullsize it means you view downsize trucks such as S10/15s and Colorado/Canyons as the basis. To me, since downsize GM Trucks didn't exist till '82, those are the ones that need to be denoted. What people call fullsize are simply "trucks", then the downsize trucks that were added to the line. I guess GMT400 is a GM inside term. Well I'm not inside GM and don't feel I need to make it sound like I am. That GMT400 and up terminology was never used until the next run came out. I have to guess where this terminology comes from. What's a GMT 300, GMT200, or a GMT 100? I can guess its 73-87, 67-72, and 60-66 but never heard those referred as such. And what about before '60? I'm a fan from the first GMCs ever built and this naming leaves out the heritage all the modern trucks stem from.

By '92 I saw these truck as becoming, for a more modern era, the next classic to the same degree as 67-72s. I really hated the change at first, but gave GM the benefit of doubt for replacing the long run of prior design with a well thought out look into the future. No superficial change in a time when less means more. And that is exactly what they did. I remember reading about the huge amount of money they spent on developing this truck line. They took a huge step forward.

In those five years from 88-92 I saw the trucks prove themselves and I ordered myself up what I saw as the 20 year newer version of the ideal '72 I would have ordered. I even went with a classic paint color, Woodland Green (505 in '72), which was a fleet order color I got GMC to do for just my one truck... once I waited for a fleet ordered in that color. I wish so bad I could have hung onto that truck. I ordered it looking ahead to the day I'd be restoring it

[Tom]

I love my 88-98's, but the square bodies are the next classics.

[special-K]

From what I've seen the 73-87s have been classics. They came into being classics on the boot heals of the 67-72 popularity explosion. Not saying 67-72 popularity, because that has always been and only increased with their age as classics. But they took off in a phenomenal way 12-15 years ago and that is when the 73-87s shot up in cost and popularity. I think we are in a time when there will no longer be that in between time when a Chevy truck is just a used truck. Late models hold their values pretty high, then they are classics it seems. I'd like to find a clean 03-07 Chevy shortbed or K2500, regular cabs of course, and even those are being handled as gems. I think any regular cab is going to be seen as a classic, since that is the traditional truck body style that has been squeezed out by the new world truck buyers buying trucks as family vehicles and commuter craft. These 88-98s are classics now. They are at the age to qualify for historic tags, after all.

[pwdcougar]

Back in the 80's and 90's I had a 70 Suburban as a daily driver. At the time I was restoring a 69 Cougar and couldn't take the time to work on the Sub to get to work and also keep the Cougar. In 97 I bought a K10 Silverado as it had a nice clean classic look. 25 years later it's still my daily driver and still looks great. As soon as I finish my Suburban the Silverado goes into the garage for a refresh. I really see this body style as being a classic.

[LT7A]

Task Force? Advanced Design? Giving names to a generation of trucks has been around a long time, sometimes given by the factory itself. You just happened to start your GM owning career (based on what you described above) with a generation without a nickname. I agree that OBS is a peculiar designation but that happened on sites that were focused on these trucks when the NBS came out. Also designated GMT800. Happens elsewhere. Modern architecture occurred in the 60s... sixty years ago. Modern means now, so what do you do when the style/evolution develops past current? Give it a new name... like postmodern... comes after modern. Wait, wouldn't what comes after modern be the future?... haha

Lots of truck owners have been using these designations for a lot of decades. You might not want to but that's a personal preference. Just because it didn't happen in your era doesn't make the users newbies ; )

[special-K]

I said "relative" to my experience. Advance Design and Task Master were promotional names given those post-war series during the hot '50s auto marketing era. But was never used by the public until internet forums and social media increased their popularity. OBS is what some people started calling 88-98s once their replacement came along. That dates the term as post-era, not used 'while' these trucks were being sold and used. I believe GM called them the "Classic" line, same as in '07. Why not still call those GMT400s? Like I said, the same thing happened (body styles overlapped) in 88-91 but no one called the early style OBS. GM didn't create a name either, just R/V series to distinguish them from the current C/Ks. I don't get the GMT nomenclature. Where does it start and how does it change? GMT400 was the first I ever heard of it used. So what are GMT300s? And how did it go from GMT400 to GMT800? I doesn't seem like a good system to me. I just stick with using the actual year or span of years most known. Most known meaning to accommodate the styles that over lapped, such as 73-87s when there were a few exceptions in 88-91. If I say '63 Corvette you know I mean the first year Sting Ray and the year they had a split window. I say 63-67 Vette. I don't use that "gen" lingo either. I just say what I mean.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by special-K

I said "relative" to my experience. Advance Design and Task Master were promotional names given those post-war series during the hot '50s auto marketing era. But was never used by the public until internet forums and social media increased their popularity. OBS is what some people started calling 88-98s once their replacement came along. That dates the term as post-era, not used 'while' these trucks were being sold and used. I believe GM called them the "Classic" line, same as in '07. Why not still call those GMT400s? Like I said, the same thing happened (body styles overlapped) in 88-91 but no one called the early style OBS. GM didn't create a name either, just R/V series to distinguish them from the current C/Ks. I don't get the GMT nomenclature. Where does it start and how does it change? GMT400 was the first I ever heard of it used. So what are GMT300s? And how did it go from GMT400 to GMT800? I doesn't seem like a good system to me. I just stick with using the actual year or span of years most known. Most known meaning to accommodate the styles that over lapped, such as 73-87s when there were a few exceptions in 88-91. If I say '63 Corvette you know I mean the first year Sting Ray and the year they had a split window. I say 63-67 Vette. I don't use that "gen" lingo either. I just say what I mean.

My guess is you might be more likely to use the name referred to by the masses if you DID actually have one from those "overlap" years.

I have two. My '89 dually & my '99 3/4 ton.

[special-K]

I just called my Suburban a '91 Suburban. But there was only one with those, no overlap.

Same with the '90 Blazer. It always bugged me once the downsize vehicles came out, and were what was being pushed on the market, the downsized became the assumed vehicle. I'd go in for parts for the Blazer and the parts guy would ask "Full size?", and I'd answer, "Just Blazer. The other ones are S10 Blazers"

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by special-K

I said "relative" to my experience.

Advance Design and Task Master were promotional names given those post-war series during the hot '50s auto marketing era. But was never used by the public until internet forums and social media increased their popularity.

OBS is what some people started calling 88-98s once their replacement came along. That dates the term as post-era, not used 'while' these trucks were being sold and used. I believe GM called them the "Classic" line, same as in '07. Why not still call those GMT400s? Like I said, the same thing happened (body styles overlapped) in 88-91 but no one called the early style OBS. GM didn't create a name either, just R/V series to distinguish them from the current C/Ks. I don't get the GMT nomenclature. Where does it start and how does it change? GMT400 was the first I ever heard of it used. So what are GMT300s? And how did it go from GMT400 to GMT800? I doesn't seem like a good system to me. I just stick with using the actual year or span of years most known. Most known meaning to accommodate the styles that over lapped, such as 73-87s when there were a few exceptions in 88-91. If I say '63 Corvette you know I mean the first year Sting Ray and the year they had a split window. I say 63-67 Vette. I don't use that "gen" lingo either. I just say what I mean.

Newbie is not a relative term. It's an uncomplimentary term for somebody who is new and hasn't caught on yet. Trying to use it for people who may have owned trucks for 30 or 40 years doesn't make sense and stands to alienate. I would bet the great majority of the people that own OBS trucks have not owned trucks as long as you have and the internet is probably central to their knowledge and enjoyment of the hobby. What is the point of calling them newbies and questioning the validity of the nicknames they've learned for each generation of truck, save for the 67-72s?

As far as the marketing names mention specifically, TF and AD, I hope I don't offend you by using their initials, haha - internet forums/social media is the context within which this discussion is taking place. So it's pretty hard to invalidate those names for referring to trucks of a specific era on that basis, even if they weren't used at the time. As far as all of the rest of it, have at...

One note on squarebodies is that it actually makes it easier to refer to a group of trucks. Rather than saying "the trucks that started in 1973 and changed a little bit in 1981 and then went on until 1987 if you're talking about pickups or until 1991 if you're talking about blazers, suburbans, and crew cabs... you can just say squarebodies, haha.

[special-K]

I say 73-87, simple. People are too soft and protected these days. People are too sensitive if being called a newbie hurts. Newbie is a relative term meaning "less time in it". Such a term has been used forever, such a greenhorn, rookie, or just being called Junior. It's meaning depends on who is saying it to who and about what. The computer generated truck world is another world from the one before the internet existed. What would be an acceptable way of differentiating a person as being from both worlds?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by special-K

I say 73-87, simple. People are too soft and protected these days. People are too sensitive if being called a newbie hurts. Newbie is a relative term meaning "less time in it". Such a term has been used forever, such a greenhorn, rookie, or just being called Junior. It's meaning depends on who is saying it to who and about what. The computer generated truck world is another world from the one before the internet existed. What would be an acceptable way of differentiating a person as being from both worlds?

An enthusiast? Gearhead? Truck guy/girl?

[Palf70Step]

Depends on what mood I am in on what terminology I use. Since I hang out with a lot of non-car/truck folks, I do tend to just say the years. With truck folks, it just depends on who I am talking to. I am still a newbie/rookie in so many areas of the car community, so it don't matter what they call me, even if the mention Ferds.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Palf70Step

Depends on what mood I am in on what terminology I use. Since I hang out with a lot of non-car/truck folks, I do tend to just say the years. With truck folks, it just depends on who I am talking to. I am still a newbie/rookie in so many areas of the car community, so it don't matter what they call me, even if the mention Ferds.

I usually use the terms in addition to the year when I mention something particular about one of the trucks & I get the head tilt/squinty eye look. Not a lot of people get the overlap of the body year thing & how the transitions are managed.

When it comes to ordering parts, I default to within the years of the body style. If I need parts for my dually, I usually request parts for an '87 R3500. If it's something for the 3/4 ton, I request stuff for a '98 C2500. Even then, there's no guarantee I get the right item. I know that can happen regardless of the situation but it happens @ a much MUCH higher rate for the overlap year models.

[Just call me Sean]

Sometimes I have to tell them '98 to get the correct parts for my '99 OBS.

[Boog]

I normally refer to the 88-98 trucks as just that. If I'm at a parts store I refer to my truck as a '91 C1500. Not many seem to get the GMT400 label. Like I never heard of an RV series for square body trucks until some time after 2000. I never used that term for them. It's a bit confusing for some.

[Pampas56]

Originally Posted by special-K

I say 73-87, simple. People are too soft and protected these days. People are too sensitive if being called a newbie hurts. Newbie is a relative term meaning "less time in it". Such a term has been used forever, such a greenhorn, rookie, or just being called Junior. It's meaning depends on who is saying it to who and about what. The computer generated truck world is another world from the one before the internet existed. What would be an acceptable way of differentiating a person as being from both worlds?

I don't see it as two worlds, just a bigger pool of people to talk to, BS with, bench race, and give/receive help to/from.

When I first came to the forum it was for my 84 C10 truck. I was familiar with the SBC engine but not the Square Body trucks. As a newbie just lurking and listening, I learned a lot. After a while I knew enough to be able to help others with their issues. I was even able to contribute to various discussions occasionally.

When I bought my 89 K2500 ECLB I was in a GREAT position to glean info to try to rebuild my truck. It is VERY rough, but I am looking for a functional restoration, not a show truck.

This board to me is no different from grouping around the bed of somebody's truck BSing, Just sitting in front of a screen talking to folks around the world instead of just my neck of the woods.

Newbie is not a bad thing, if we remember that we ALL started out as newbies at some point.

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by special-K

I say 73-87, simple. People are too soft and protected these days. People are too sensitive if being called a newbie hurts. Newbie is a relative term meaning "less time in it". Such a term has been used forever, such a greenhorn, rookie, or just being called Junior. It's meaning depends on who is saying it to who and about what. The computer generated truck world is another world from the one before the internet existed. What would be an acceptable way of differentiating a person as being from both worlds?

I would think that the forum is meant to encourage enthusiasm and participation. Using disparaging words for people who may have owned trucks for 30-plus years and are using nicknames that have been common for 20-plus years doesn't seem to fit. If it's important to you to call out the changes in naming and communication / interaction in the hobby since you've been in it, why not? It might be interesting for those of us who have only owned trucks for a handful of decades or so, haha. But there are some young, very sharp, able, and avid builders and I would think that you would want to enhance your connection to them. It doesn't seem that words like newbie and soft serve that interest. So maybe you would care to clarify the purpose behind the point you are trying to make?

In giving thought to your question, I think we are all hobbyists or enthusiasts. Some are connected online and some are not. I think many, like me, see the internet as an extension of an interest or affinity that we've had for a long time. The internet extension has been going for such a long time that it now affects the non-internet arena. Is that bad? Additionally, there are more members coming online... who were born after the internet, and for them the hobby is inseparable from the internet since that's how they have always experienced it. Is it necessary to label yourself something different than them? Maybe they have a descriptive term that is the opposite of newbie ; )

Forums are old-school now. Personally, I'm always stoked to see people who have been born after the turn of the century sign up here and join in. I'm not a long-term member like some of you are, but I've been here long enough to feel like I should do what I can to encourage that.

[dave6672]

Originally Posted by special-K

I just called my Suburban a '91 Suburban. But there was only one with those, no overlap.

Same with the '90 Blazer. It always bugged me once the downsize vehicles came out, and were what was being pushed on the market, the downsized became the assumed vehicle. I'd go in for parts for the Blazer and the parts guy would ask "Full size?", and I'd answer, "Just Blazer. The other ones are S10 Blazers"

Same here. I have always referred to them as "S10 Pickups or S10 Blazers" in order to differentiate from the larger ones.

Originally Posted by Boog

I normally refer to the 88-98 trucks as just that. If I'm at a parts store I refer to my truck as a '91 C1500. Not many seem to get the GMT400 label. Like I never heard of an RV series for square body trucks until some time after 2000. I never used that term for them. It's a bit confusing for some.

Agree. I just recently figured out the OBS designation and then last weekend saw a magazine called OBS Builders Guide on the bookstore shelf so it obviously is a well known term (I'm always behind the times). I don't think the GMT400 label has gotten much mainstream traction either.

[Just call me Sean]

I refer to my 99 as OBS because that's literally what it is. 99 is the start of the next body style but they still made the old body style, mine.