Bad brass float

[gmc 2500 4x4]

after being warned not to use the brass fuel tank float in my 69 gmc resto,,,it happened! float was full of fuel..gauge was reading empty.. i broke it apart by hand. just ordered a plastic one.

[franken]

I could be wrong but bad solder joints don't indicate bad parts. I didn't know a replacement float was available...

[gmc 2500 4x4]

there are some threads on this subject...

[Grumpy old man]

Jeep plastic float from Summit / Amazon/ Ebay

https://www.google.com/search?q=OMIX...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Joesjunk]

I just replace 2 junk brass floats with those plastic Jeep ones. They fit perfect

[chevmn]

I am also a victim of the failed brass aftermarket float. I also used the plastic float to replace. I just installed another aftermarket sending unit with one of those floats. Curious to see how long before it sinks, and I did not have another plastic on hand to swap.

[GMCPaul]

Ethanol dissolves the lead and tin in the solder joint, it also is not compatible with soft metals such as zinc, brass, copper, lead, and aluminum. These metals will degrade or corrode in contact with ethanol and possibly contaminate a vehicle's fuel system.
Many issues with fuel systems components due to ethanol. It's not just the fuel sender floats.
Paul Jr

[body bolt]

When I pulled my 2-3yo replacement sender the float was gone. Years ago I had a float sink on a Weber in one of my Citroens.

[bry593]

It also eats certain plastics. I had a Honda V-twin with fuel issues. When I removed the petcock, the (nylon?) screens were just stumps!

[chevmn]

Originally Posted by GMCPaul

Ethanol dissolves the lead and tin in the solder joint, it also is not compatible with soft metals such as zinc, brass, copper, lead, and aluminum. These metals will degrade or corrode in contact with ethanol and possibly contaminate a vehicle's fuel system.
Many issues with fuel systems components due to ethanol. It's not just the fuel sender floats.
Paul Jr

The first one I had fail was simply stress cracks in the brass. It was very thin. I have repaired brass floats in the past successfully, but no way on that one. It only lasted long enough to allow gas into the float. Another failure point is the shrink tubing on the connector. Had one fail where the shrink tubing shorted against the tubing, and it also was reading empty. I plan on repairing that one.

[chevmn]

Just thought I would add to this thread. I just took out a month old counterpart sending unit, and the float was full of gas, and very light pressure and the float fell apart at the solder joint, basically splitting it in half similar to the photo shown in this post. This is not a case of ethanol fuels degrading the solder, it is simply junk parts. Solution is another one of the plastic jeep floats, and replace the junk floats before installation. This item was new out of the box about a month ago, however it had sat in my shop for at least a year before I had a chance to install so I cannot go back to the seller, not that another would be any better. But it is infuriating that so many of these fail out of the box.

[RustyPile]

I bought my '71 a little over four years ago as a "non-runner". It had sat for years out in the weather, so it had several issues. One of which was a fuel gauge that didn't work. When I removed the tank for cleaning I discovered the sending unit was in bad shape, rusty with a partially dissolved brass float. I replaced the sending unit and within a few months the float developed a leak, filled with gas and sunk. It had separated at the seam. I replaced the float with another brass unit. Within a few months, it also failed. I had a couple discussions with the online vendor I bought it from, and they sent a complete replacement unit. I examined the unit closely to see if I could find out why the floats are failing. The float seemed to be clamped awfully tight in the loop at the end of the arm. I opened the loop enough that the float would stay "captured" but loose enough that the float would "rattle" a bit in the loop.. I installed the "modified" sender over 4 years ago.. I have not had any more trouble with it..

About a year ago, I installed a new mechanical fuel pump with a return line. I removed the sending unit to install a fitting for the return line. There were no signs of deterioration of the float or other components.. I believe the problem lies with the float being clamped too tight to the arm. Solder is not strong, it's just a bonding agent. It is my belief the constant pressure causes the solder to crack and fail.

[GMCPaul]

Originally Posted by chevmn

Just thought I would add to this thread. I just took out a month old counterpart sending unit, and the float was full of gas, and very light pressure and the float fell apart at the solder joint, basically splitting it in half similar to the photo shown in this post. This is not a case of ethanol fuels degrading the solder, it is simply junk parts. Solution is another one of the plastic jeep floats, and replace the junk floats before installation. This item was new out of the box about a month ago, however it had sat in my shop for at least a year before I had a chance to install so I cannot go back to the seller, not that another would be any better. But it is infuriating that so many of these fail out of the box.

Your 100% correct on the counterparts brand as we learned years ago about theirs having a issue and are fully aware the counterparts brand fuel senders fail early with the brass floats they use. Which is why we source all of our complete fuel senders from Key Parts as they use a different manufacture for the sending units and floats and we have never had any issues with the key parts brand failing yet. BUT eventually even the brass float key parts manufacturer use's we feel will fail as they also use a lead solder joint and ethanol we know will eventually lead to them failing at some point due to the effect ethanol has on lead. BUT we also have trucks with the Key Parts fuel senders in them that have been installed at least 15 years if not longer and none have them has failed yet. We've suggested to every supplier including key parts that carries these fuel senders to look into having their manufactures use the plastic floats but none have opted to do so. We've contemplated on why counterparts brand and others fail and have wondered if the difference is lead solder used, poor quality control or if it's the method they use to solder them as some places cold solder things and others use heat. Dad's always guessed it was probably the companies that use cold soldering over heated soldering that causes the issue. Because we do know that cold soldering reacts poorly to changes in temperature and causes solder joints to fail. Which with these tanks being in cab tanks the temps soar inside with windows up in the summer and rapidly cool down once that heat is released. Dad honestly thinks the manufactures that use cold soldering do so not only because it's less expensive initially but because over time they know it will fail making the purchase of a replacement necessary. Planned failure / planned obsolescence. Dad absolutely hates new vehicles electronics because of the wide spread use of cold soldering in them. He's saved a lt of money through the years opening up a failed electronic control module and similar items and repairing a cold solder joint that has separated with a heated solder joint.
Paul Jr @ GMCPauls

[1970GMC350]

As others have stated, the plastic Jeep float works like a charm.

[chevmn]

Originally Posted by GMCPaul

Your 100% correct on the counterparts brand as we learned years ago about theirs having a issue and are fully aware the counterparts brand fuel senders fail early with the brass floats they use. Which is why we source all of our complete fuel senders from Key Parts as they use a different manufacture for the sending units and floats and we have never had any issues with the key parts brand failing yet. BUT eventually even the brass float key parts manufacturer use's we feel will fail as they also use a lead solder joint and ethanol we know will eventually lead to them failing at some point due to the effect ethanol has on lead. BUT we also have trucks with the Key Parts fuel senders in them that have been installed at least 15 years if not longer and none have them has failed yet. We've suggested to every supplier including key parts that carries these fuel senders to look into having their manufactures use the plastic floats but none have opted to do so. We've contemplated on why counterparts brand and others fail and have wondered if the difference is lead solder used, poor quality control or if it's the method they use to solder them as some places cold solder things and others use heat. Dad's always guessed it was probably the companies that use cold soldering over heated soldering that causes the issue. Because we do know that cold soldering reacts poorly to changes in temperature and causes solder joints to fail. Which with these tanks being in cab tanks the temps soar inside with windows up in the summer and rapidly cool down once that heat is released. Dad honestly thinks the manufactures that use cold soldering do so not only because it's less expensive initially but because over time they know it will fail making the purchase of a replacement necessary. Planned failure / planned obsolescence. Dad absolutely hates new vehicles electronics because of the wide spread use of cold soldering in them. He's saved a lt of money through the years opening up a failed electronic control module and similar items and repairing a cold solder joint that has separated with a heated solder joint.
Paul Jr @ GMCPauls

good to know, and I have also fixed a few cold solder joints on newer components. thanks

[LockDoc]

-
The problem with soldering the brass floats is that the heated air inside the float expands and blows the solder out of the joint before it can cool. I have tried to re-solder the brass floats and they always blow out somewhere along the seam before the solder can completely cool. I would think that the companies that use heat to solder them would run into the same problem, creating pin holes.

LockDoc

[chevmn]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

-
The problem with soldering the brass floats is that the heated air inside the float expands and blows the solder out of the joint before it can cool. I have tried to re-solder the brass floats and they always blow out somewhere along the seam before the solder can completely cool. I would think that the companies that use heat to solder them would run into the same problem, creating pin holes.

LockDoc

I had that same issue today when I attempted to flux and resolder....it blew out, and coupled with the extremeley thin brass I had a 1/4 inch hole before I knew it.

[Steeveedee]

The metal is hot for the solder, and when it cools, the pressure inside goes down. That would suck the molten solder into the float. I bet they kept running solder until the float cooled enough, personally. I tried that process on my leaky float, before I realized that the clip squeezed it when I put it back on (deformed it again, and it leaked, again). I put on a plastic float after that.

[gmc 2500 4x4]

im glad this was brought to light, nobody wants to mess with them once they're in. (behind seat)

[chevmn]

Years ago I never thought I would see a day when a manufacturer or distributor could make and sell a product defective right out of the box, and seems a very large percentage this way. I know I purchased two from two suppliers, probably a year apart and both had the same problem. In both instances they had sat on a shelf for a period before I installed, so they would not take the return, and most likely if I did I would get the same junk. Just one reason I often repair or rebuild a lot of parts (starters, alternators for example), but it is often hard to find the pieces necessary to rebuild such as starter brushes and bushings. End of rant.