LS swap In Arizona

[DarkKnight]

Ok, I am sure it has been asked, but I really do no want to go thru all these threads to find it.
In Phoneix, can you do the LS swap in a smog 86 C10? Really do not want to monkey with smog crap at all, hate it. Will rebuild the 350/400 setup if we go that route, but am curious about the LS swap. Just not sure it will pass emissions/inspection here in AZ.
Any info will be appreciated.

[tucsonjwt]

If you call ADOT they will say no. All vehicles must have all factory smog equipment in place and functioning properly when they go through emissions. The last time I checked, only 1967 and earlier vehicles don't need an emissions check. I have heard that there may now be an exception for classic rarely driven vehicles up into the 1970s, but I don't know that for sure.

If your vehicle is registered outside of Maricopa or Pima county, then you don't need emissions checks.

I don't know about you, but my 83 C20 gets a thorough check for emissions equipment every year when I go through the testing facility. I think they are more suspicious of a 32 year old vehicle still having all of the original emission equipment in place and functioning. I am registered in Pima County (Tucson.)

I see a lot of old trucks with mod engines on CL in both Phoenix and Tucson, so I assume that they are registered outside of Maricopa or Pima.

[Malo83]

50 state legal
http://www.trucktrend.com/news/163-n...-crate-engine/
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...e-rod-ls3.html
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-126-30.pdf

Don't think Az. is any stricter than Cali

[tucsonjwt]

Call ADOT and find out - only they have the final legal say in AZ. Kalifornia actually has easier emissions laws regarding older vehicles. Emissions testing stations look for original factory smog equipment - that is all they know. Analyzing aftermarket mods are not part of their responsibility.

A "50 states legal" engine does not mean that it meets registration requirements for every state. A replacement engine installation would also have to include all of the sensors, computer controls, catalytic converters, etc. - AZ emissions testers would have no way to verify all of that. ADOT will likely tell you that engine mods without original factory emissions makes the vehicle not street legal in Maricopa and Pima. Tampering with factory emissions is also, technically, a federal offense. We are into legal definition territory here - so I would personally stay away from these mods in AZ. I doubt that anybody at ADOT would tell you it is OK to remove factory emissions equipment.

[Malo83]

Here's an LS swap by Holley on an 86
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...m-preview.html

[DarkKnight]

Thank you for the I info....we just don't not want to wrap up that kinda money to be told....it won't be legal.
Posted via Mobile Device

[tucsonjwt]

The only emissions exemption in AZ that I know of: rare classic car driven mostly to car shows, and has classic car insurance, or 1966 or older.

https://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/motor.html

I know people with non-original engines whose vehicles are registered outside of Maricopa or Pima counties. Those vehicles could not be legally registered in Maricopa or Pima.

http://gisweb.azdeq.gov/arcgis/emaps/?topic=vei

Here is some information from EPA about engine swaps written in lawyer talk. This does not cover state requirements, which I have not found written anywhere in AZ. It seems to me that the feds don't like engine swaps unless it is from a substantially identical vehicle. Bottom line - the burden is on the vehicle owner to prove that an engine swap meets EPA and state standards, and those standards are either hard to find or non-existent for engine swaps. You still need to cross the hurdle of "tampering with original emissions equipment."

http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production...ngswitch_0.pdf

[DarkKnight]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

The only emissions exemption in AZ that I know of: rare classic car driven mostly to car shows, and has classic car insurance, or 1966 or older.

https://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/motor.html

I know people with non-original engines whose vehicles are registered outside of Maricopa or Pima counties. Those vehicles could not be legally registered in Maricopa or Pima.

http://gisweb.azdeq.gov/arcgis/emaps/?topic=vei

Here is some information from EPA about engine swaps written in lawyer talk. This does not cover state requirements, which I have not found written anywhere in AZ. It seems to me that the feds don't like engine swaps unless it is from a substantially identical vehicle. Bottom line - the burden is on the vehicle owner to prove that an engine swap meets EPA and state standards, and those standards are either hard to find or non-existent for engine swaps. You still need to cross the hurdle of "tampering with original emissions equipment."

http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production...ngswitch_0.pdf

Thank you, looks like I should stay with the current 350.
Posted via Mobile Device

[broey]

phoenix resident here, if your ls swap has an obd port, has catalitic converters, and doesn't trip any error codes it will pass inspection. there are plenty of companies that offer 50 state legal components to help if you are worried along the way. that being said, you can also look into registering your vehicle for classic car insurance. no emissions is needed after doing that.

[tucsonjwt]

broey - can you tell us where you found that information? I cant' see it anywhere on the ADOT website.

[chebyshortbox65]

There is no way that Az is tougher then Ca. It all starts here and trickles to other states. As long as you install everything the donor vehicle has and it's all functiong properly it will pass. And it all needs to be done professionally it won't pass if it is butchers and hacked it needs to look like it came from the factory. I have done a Ca legal swap and he moved to Az and they didn't even batt an eye on the swap.

[Tom]

Put a 99 vortec 350 in my 79 and never had any problems. Just used cats and factory charcoal canister from 79.

[broey]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

broey - can you tell us where you found that information? I cant' see it anywhere on the ADOT website.

just from personal experience, the thing with adot is, basically they don't know any better. they worded their regulations in the most basic form. when they say the vehicle has to have all factory equipment, it really means they don't want to see anything bypassed or removed that would give a false smog reading. you can absolutely swap for a newer motor. but to them, that new motor better not be rigged to give a false reading at emissions. you are dealing with kids, who literally don't know anything. if your truck has an obd then they might want to run the test off of it. if you added an obd with your ls swap, but the truck didn't come with one, they probably won't even look for it. they will inspect the undercarriage with a mirror to make sure you have cats and mufflers. they will pressure test your tanks and your gas caps, they will pop the hood and look for emissions parts, if you have a charcoal canister and the vacuum lines are hooked up you're good, smog pump? better have a belt to it.. then they will hook up their smog testers to your exhuast. better make sure they exit the truck from the sides or back. if they can't hook those up then you fail. ADOT isn't some giant malicious company out to ruin your day, its just a quick money grab to help keep the infrastructure of our state going. if you do a decent swap, you'll be fine, as the never motors are way more efficient at keeping emissions down, you'll be graded on your vin numbers original specs and pass with flying colors.

[tucsonjwt]

When I called ADOT and asked about a modern engine swap they said it was not allowed.. Apparently, when going through emissions they say OK?

Personally, I would not do it without prior written authorization somewhere from ADOT. If you don't pass emissions you have no documentation to back you up. In my experience in Tucson, they are not very tolerant of any emissions equipment not factory original. That is why all swapped engine vehicles I know of around here are registered outside of Pima County.

Each to his or her own.

[Warrens69GMC]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

When I called ADOT and asked about a modern engine swap they said it was not allowed.. Apparently, when going through emissions they say OK?

Personally, I would not do it without prior written authorization somewhere from ADOT. If you don't pass emissions you have no documentation to back you up. In my experience in Tucson, they are not very tolerant of any emissions equipment not factory original. That is why all swapped engine vehicles I know of around here are registered outside of Pima County.

Each to his or her own.

You can't ask for an engine SWAP, there is no basis for them to look that up. You have to ask for an engine CHANGE. Normally you have to have ALL of the emission equipment for original engine AND the newer engine.

For example-
1986 truck with a 350
Yes - 350 from 1988-2002 with all Smog
no-348-409 or even 327 (pre-1986) even with smog

I know of a few guys who hove put in OBD2 compliant motors and run emissions tests in the 1996+ newer lane at testing stations.

[JNJchev77]

I registered my '77 w/ 5.3 swap as a classic, insured as a classic and no emissions required. You can insure yours as a classic and let the insurance carrier know that it is driven daily. No cats or any other smog installed...

American Modern insurance will write it that way. It does not have to be an occasional use vehicle or strictly for shows.

Justin

[billlopez]

I was failed for having a dual tank bed with only 1 fuel tank. I had to put the other tank in, hook up the filler tube, put the gas cap back before they would pass me. They said since I had a door on both sides, I had to have both tanks in so they could do the gas cap test.

[IIGW]

this is an old thread, but still a good one.

being i have an 86 with an 06 drivetrain fully legal and registered in maricopa, i can tell you it needs to be 86 emissions standards.

they WILL NOT test your obdii port, they DONT care about a check engine light, because 1986 never had that stuff.

the WILL put it on the rollers and do a driving test and test the emissions coming out of the tailpipes.

they WILL try to test your evap, and fuel cap, but if you, like me, use a later model fuel filler and cap from an OBDII vechile they dont have the adaptor to test it, and will automatically pass you on the evap test.. but if you dont have a canister bolted on they will fail you on the visual inspection portion.. rememerb it has to pass 86 inspection (or watever year yours is)

other then that, its pretty simple.

[piecesparts]

Now, I remember why I live in Kansas. Thanks to you guys for reminding me, that our smog laws are archaic throughout this country.

We can do what we want without much oversight.

[tucsonjwt]

It sounds like you can get a mod engine through emissions in practice in many (if not all) cases, but I have yet to see anyone get written verification of that through ADOT. Registering outside of Maricopa and Pima county sounds like the easiest solution, but resale in Maricopa and Pima might be an issue. It still sounds like a crap shoot to me, so I would not do it. I would instead put a few thousand in non-engine mods, or just buy a truck with a factory LS in it.

[phillipm]

I think people are making a bigger deal of this than it is. Like IIGW said. You just swap it. keep any emissions that were stock for your year (mainly if your truck had a cat or not) and take it down there. I've never had an issue.

[rodstored-72]

I know this is an old thread, but I am at this point now trying to get emissions compliant... it WILL BE a daily driver & my main vehicle hence no option of haggerty- already tried. i just tested a week ago and....
...."they WILL NOT test your obdii port, they DONT care about a check engine light, because 1986 never had that stuff.

the WILL put it on the rollers and do a driving test and test the emissions coming out of the tailpipes."
ofcourse I passed the smog with flying colors, I failed the tank pressure test & hence the "evap. equipment test"
I would love to hear what you guys (here in the valley-maricopa) have done to pass & even where you went? as some say even that matters? VERY interested in the gas cap info as mentioned above...

thanks!!