1966 K10 LS Swap Contemplation

[AlaskaK10]

Hello Everyone
I am preparing to assemble a 1966 Chevy K10 4X4 originally was thinking of putting in a 292. However before I do that I would like to learn about an LS swap. Since I am starting from scratch I feel it should be considered. I have looked in the LS sawp area but have not seen any info on the 64 65 or 66 K10s having an LS engine istalled. Originally I was going with a 4 speed transmission but the newer automatic I think its the 4160? looks like a nice way to go. This is a 66 K10 stepside shorty so originality is important or maybe not?? I'm not thinking a modern motor is a bad idea if it can be a clean looks like factory swap. Not sure of transfer cases etc but seem by going with an automatic it would remove some of the complexity. I would appreciate any feed back on this.
Dan

[SkinnyG]

I believe the 292 uses the traditional V8 bell housing bolt pattern, so an LS will work with that transmission.

There are motor mount kits everywhere that will plunk the LS in place.

The only challenge for you is converting the truck to EFI, or converting the LS to carb. All of this has been done before, and well documented, plus - we're here to help as well.

My rationale: Why would you NOT do an LS swap? Three times the power on half the gas with zero oil leaks!

[Arne]

In general, I agree with @SkinnyG's thoughts, albeit with a couple of counterpoints.

1.) If you are concerned with originality, an LS swap is not. A properly executed LS swap will look like a modern motor nicely installed in an early truck. This is not a bad thing, but it will not (and can not) appear to be a "looks-like-factory" swap.

2.) What's your comfort and experience level with custom fabrication and improvisation? While these swaps have been done many times, and there are kits to help facilitate, you will run into things that you don't expect, and will need to adapt on the fly. If this is not a strength for you, it may not be the best option.

3.) Where do you stop? LS motor, modern auto trans and T-case to match. What about power steering? Disc brakes? Upgraded cooling? All this is good stuff, but adds a lot of time and money to the project.

[hewittca]

I am currently nearing the completion of my first LS swap and there is definitely a lot to learn. None of it is necessarily difficult, but there are quite a few things that pop up that you can't quite plan for entirely before hand, or address completely with an all encompassing kit. There will be many adapters, fittings, and test fits, fabrication of brackets and mounts, picking hardware, mixing and matching parts from multiple OEMs (I have parts from GM, Ford, Dodge, Jeep, and Volvo on mine!), researching components, and learning new things to consider that were never relevant with an old carbureted motor. If you want an idea of what it's like to work your way through your first swap, take a look at my build thread for my '72. I've tried to document everything I've done and the lessons learned along the way. If you do decide to swap, definitely make a build thread for it. It's the best way to keep track of everything you've done and to get help!

[SkinnyG]

^^^ plus folks can chime in with tips and solutions to the challenges you come across (grin).

[AcampoDave]

With all due respect to SkinnyG. There are reasons not to swap in an LS.... 292's are cool. A vintage engine in a classic truck can provide a certain nostalgic feeling motoring down the road. They are likely more hands on than a modern motor but that also has an appeal of its own. Sometime it's fun to have the WHOLE classic truck experience. Not just the outer shell of it.

But I'm a bit over the hill myself and I want to bring the (ahem) old days along with me in my classic truck. I do have a later model Silverado too, and when I want smooth, powerful efficiency I just drive it instead and enjoy the full package.

[AlaskaK10]

I'm caught in that world to. I fully understand

[SkinnyG]

I totally get that. I don't mean to sound like I'm knocking it - the original question was about the swap.

I've never actually owned "stock" anything, ever. I get bored. (grin)

I did contemplate the simplicity of keeping the stovebolt in my '61....

[AlaskaK10]

I am at the junction of decisions I guess you could call it. I had planned on the 292 for a while but have been reading on this site and listening to others that an LS swap is the way to go. Some of the swap threads are awesome. I don't see how an LS if done correctly would be a bad thing. The vintage 292 keeps the originality no doubt. I know this truck is going to be alot of work to build and expense so want to make the best decisions. I have to be honest though I read more negative about the 292 than I do the LS. If I were to install an LS it would be a 5.3 hopefully no more than 120K miles. Did I just say that?? 120K miles use to be the end of life on the old engines. And then I think of my age I'm high miklage myself so whatever I build its really for the next guy.

[MT65]

I’m with Skinny….

[350TacoZilla]

There is a guy on youtube I believe its called Halfass Kustoms that shows how to do a very simple LS swap with basically all junkyard available style parts if your trying to do it on a strict budget.

Pro's of LS swap that I see-
If its a truck you plan on keeping a long time the LS parts availability will probably be around much longer than the old I6 stuff.
Power and MPG are going to be better
Cold weather starting
Sound (personal opinion here obviously but I like the sound of a V8 with decent mufflers on it)

Cons-
Originality
Resale value MAYBE, not really sure if this is true since LS swaps are pretty popular and there are different buyers for each type of vehicle.
Complexity of the whole FI V8 vs the stone simple I6 though again an LS is reliable its just got more fiddly bits to go bad.

Overall I would LS swap personally. Heck I would almost go further and hunt down a tahoe that has body damage or something then just swap the whole body onto tahoe chassis. Ezchassis swaps has the kit for short bed onto tahoe. Gets you the modern drivetrain with 4x4, comfortable ride and if you plan accordingly can end up with AC and cruise. I'm a wierd mix of not liking a ton of gizmos but AC is a big plus and who doesn't like cruise for a long drive?

[AlaskaK10]

Thanks for the advice. I am still undecided yet some days I feel the LS is the way to go and then the simplicity of the original engine kicks in and then I think thats the way to go. I am not making a daily driver out of it .. Weekend car cruise some shows but thats about it

[bigmoe]

I was planning on tackling an LS swap and went looking for a vehicle to use before I even bought my truck. It challenged my abilities but was nothing that couldn't be overcome with some research. Lots of support on the web. Being a K10 adds additional snags but they've been done. A lot depends on your budget too. With a good budget there are all kinds of aftermarket goodies but if you are on a budget it's possible to save some $ and still have a quality product in the end.

[Arne]

Fify...

[Short 3/4]

You’re going to have to have a serious talk with yourself about how much of three things you have:
Money
Time
Talent

If you run out of any one of those things yours will be just another abandoned project in the backyard and no matter how much of the first two things you have into it you will have to pay someone to haul it away when you get tired of looking at it.

I don’t know what kind of shape of truck you’re starting with, but generally it’s a lot easier to build one closer to stock than not. Also if it all heads south another fairly rare K truck won’t be lost. If vintage looks with modern mechanicals is your dream, the idea of using a wrecked late model doner is a good one. By the time you make every other component of the old truck compatible with a modern engine you’ll be throwing everything else away anyway. In fact you might as well just throw a much cheaper C10 body on it and sell the K to someone who wants a stocker.

I don’t mean to be all negative about your dream, I just want to make sure you are able to attain it and have FUN in the process. As you may have guessed my favorite thing about these old trucks is their simplicity. If I wanted a modern truck, I’d go down to the dealer and buy one. While none of my old junk is 100% as it left the factory I personally don’t like trying to make them something they aren’t.

Whatever direction you go, there are a lot of great folks on this forum willing to help. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Tom

[Arne]

Originally Posted by Short 3/4

You’re going to have to have a serious talk with yourself about how much of three things you have:
Money
Time
Talent

If you run out of any one of those things yours will be just another abandoned project in the backyard and no matter how much of the first two things you have into it you will have to pay someone to haul it away when you get tired of looking at it.

Tom is spot on in this. I know, because I've benefitted from this more than once. My retirement hobby is restoring and building old cars and trucks. Some of my best projects have come from people who started something and later ran into a shortage of one of those 3 items. The '64 C10 I just finished was one of them - the seller had money and reasonable talent, but no time. That was a bit unusual, more often the projects I buy were/are stalled by the lack of money or talent. But lack of any of the three frequently leads to abandoned projects.

[AlaskaK10]

I appreciate your views we all start with a dream some finish theirs and others don't. I have built a 50 foot steel yacht which is way more complex than this truck will ever be took 8 years and I finshed it. It has been written up in several national boat magazines. Google MV spiritofbalto. I am 72 years old can afford to do what I want to build this truck to whatever level I choose. I have not been looking for tutoring on the pitfalls of this project just the basic stuff like technical pros and cons.
I have not seen a 64 65 or 66 K10 with an LS in it not that there aren't any just have not seen any. I see all two wheel drive trucks and later 4X4s. I want to stay as much as possible to original looks, and don't think an LS swap would detract value wise. For instance I purchased a complete chassis with an NP205 installed in it. I did not get the original shift linkage with chassis but am in search of one. I could find a different shifter but I want the original look inside the cab etc

[AlaskaK10]

Looks better than factory!

[raidmagic]

I went carb'ed LS so that I could keep some "old school" feel to the truck. I like to see a nicely done LS swap but I never really cared for all that new in an old truck so I mixed the two. This is an LS-1 all aluminum from a 98 Trans Am with a carb and the MSD ignition box up under the dash. Kept the wiring and such to a minimum under the hood. I'll post a pic later, I don't have a good one on my phone.

[Short 3/4]

Originally Posted by AlaskaK10

Hello Everyone
I am preparing to assemble a 1966 Chevy K10 4X4 originally was thinking of putting in a 292. However before I do that I would like to learn about an LS swap. Since I am starting from scratch I feel it should be considered. I have looked in the LS sawp area but have not seen any info on the 64 65 or 66 K10s having an LS engine istalled. Originally I was going with a 4 speed transmission but the newer automatic I think its the 4160? looks like a nice way to go. This is a 66 K10 stepside shorty so originality is important or maybe not?? I'm not thinking a modern motor is a bad idea if it can be a clean looks like factory swap. Not sure of transfer cases etc but seem by going with an automatic it would remove some of the complexity. I would appreciate any feed back on this.
Dan

So just curious, what exactly are you starting with? From other posts looks like maybe a bare frame with no motor mounts and a later divorced case. How about axles. Do you have the stockers or going to go disc, power steering/ brakes etc? No wrong answers to those questions, just helpful to know when giving advice. Also what are you going to use it for?

To your original question, I’m kind of biased because I’ve had the same 292 in two different trucks for the last 30 years. I use it for hard work and hard play and would not hesitate to drive it anywhere I would drive my newer Toyota (the Toyota gets used only when I need gas mileage, AC, extended cab or quiet). Of all my fleet, that 6cyl Chevy gets the most mileage put on it per year. Not sure where you have been reading people badmouthing the 292 but it’s simple and durable as a rock, and parts are cheap and easy. Was used for years not only in light and medium duty trucks, but also agricultural equipment and boats. In my opinion it’s a great engine for these trucks.

Hope my 2 cents is helpful, and good luck with however you go
Tom

[SkinnyG]

Originally Posted by raidmagic

I never really cared for all that new in an old truck

Yes, the modern looks out of place in there. That's why I made my own engine cover out of a 55 gallon drum:

[1971 GMC SHORTY]

I Started To do LS Swap on My 66 GMC And motor All Rebuilt And Just Couldn’t Do it, So I’m Putting SBC Built ZZ4

[AlaskaK10]

I am starting with a long wheel base 4X4 chassis complete with axles brake lines and transmission and Np205 Transfer case. I have a 1965 2 wheel drive C20 unmolested donor truck with a 292. Truck runs and drives just that cab is rusty and crusty but better than a lot I have seen. I have a short bed 1965 4X4 frame in nice shape. I have a rust free or mostly rust free cab in the process of being acid dipped in Eugene and then I have another 292 running take out and two Rockwell t221 transfer cases. That is what I have.
The plan is to high grade all the running gear parts from the long bed frame and transfer to the short bed frame. I know people cut the frames but to me that is a mark against the build. By not cutting a long bed frame minus running gear is preserved. I will probably leave the 292 in the donor truck and transmission as well as I have a Sm420 in the long bed frame. I have titles and cab vin plates to all the cabs and frames so all is legit.
As for the LS swap I am at the dawn of the project I have a clean slate. Now is the time to hear what others have to say pro and con about swapping from an older platform to a more modern platform. The negative comments I have read about the 292 was that it drank a bit of fuel but that was it. I am not going to daily drive this truck so fuel burn is not an issue just want to make the best decision. I'm really excited about this project. By the way I'm 72 and started my work years doing body work and then painted aircraft so I have the skills. I have attached some pictures of my chit show!

[AlaskaK10]

I thought I would post some pictures of the hood repair I have done and a shot of the front fenders. On the fenders I removed the complete supports both fender brace and bolting flange lots of hidden rust in between the flanges.
I took the hood off my donor truck as it was the best out of three hoods I had. I completely dismantled the inner panels from the hood. The rust inside was god awful . I sandblasted all the parts. Yes even the top of the hood . I stood about four feet away and brush blasted the old paint and rust off. Hood did not warp at all. The front inner panel of the hood was eaten up pretty good. You can't buy that part in a repro. I sprayed all the insides of the hood and reinforcements with Devoe 302 epoxy primer which is about 90% solids and is zinc rich. Used it for years in boat building. There are so many marine epoxies that in my view surpass a lot of the automotive products in quality. I especially like the marine high build epoxy primers by awlgrip or sterling now owned by asko nobel.
The repro hood valance I bought was about 180 dollars and fit one side of the hood but the radius was different on the other side. I was going to cut and split it but decided to fair it with epoxy filler instead.

[Short 3/4]

Looks like you have a lot of options (and plenty of space, I’m jealous). Like you I started with a bunch of incomplete trucks. In my case my beloved 66 C10 whose body had rusted back to nature, a non running incomplete 64 K20 and a short bed non runner sorta compleat 65 K10 that had spent at least 20 years providing rodent habitat in an open barn. I was also fortunate to score lots of very good 66 K20 parts from a member swapping in all modern mechanicals.

Like you none of my trucks were savable survivors so I didn’t feel guilty mixing and matching to make something unique. In my case my dream was a factory correct looking short bed 3/4 ton like Dodge and International used to make. I didn’t give a damn what anyone else thought and it makes me happy. I strongly urge you to have the same attitude.

So back to your dilemma. What about a period looking semi hot rodded 292? Would definitely stand out in a sea of belly button SBC’s at any show, and the sound of a healthy carbureted big 6 running through duals and headers would tell people there was something unique going on before you even popped the hood

Just an idea. Hope you come up with something fun
Tom