Americans have to stop the addiction

[Boog]

Ford's CEO Farley says Americans must stop the addiction to full size cars as they just aren't profitable for the company.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...c68a49ae&ei=64
These big, huge, enormous EVs, they’re never going to make money. The battery is $50,000… The batteries will never be affordable,” Farley stated


GM president has bold new plans for the Camaro nameplate.

https://www.thestreet.com/electric-v...ic-sports-cars

[67C10Step]

So, Ford exec says because they cannot make money producing large EV's because nobody wants them so the consumer needs to buy a small car they don't want and make it EV to boot.

Then, some genius at Chevrolet thinks an EV Camaro will be a good seller.

OK guys, whatever you think........

Me personally, I think the hybrid concept is the most practical for America at this juncture. Maybe full blown EV down the road, but not right now.

[Ol Blue K20]

$50,000 battery!! Holy Smokes!!!!.....

[Sheepdip]

Green Energy Will Never Stand Alone! Now you know what I think!

[Accelo]

I just completed at round trip, in my EV, of 8.5 hours, 4.25 hours each way, for less than $10 of electricity. Certainly the price we paid for elect was below the average in the US. I was able to charge at private residents at both ends.

EV's are efficient, between 85% and 90% depending on the model. Our old trucks are roughly 20%.

No other mode of transportation can turn the potential energy back into fuel, except an electric car. Crossed the Cascade mountains and of course used more energy climbing but charged the battery all the way down the other side.

On of the major advantages of an EV is the reduced maintenance compared to an ICE vehicle. (No radiator, water-pump, exhaust, O2 sensors, engine air cleaner, transmission, oil filters) The list goes on.
I rotate the tires once a year and change the cabin air cleaner every two years.

Hybrids are OK but you have all the systems of an EV and an ICE car. This negates one of the biggest advantages of an electric car, the minimum maintenance that is required.
Just spent $4000 getting the transmission rebuilt on her Tahoe! She hates getting the hard sell every time she bring it in for service. My EV has required zero servicing in a year.
Would I purchase an Electric Truck, nope. We are not there yet. Are they for everyone, nope. Does it work for me? Yeah, very much so.

I know all the arguments against EV's yet I have one. It's the first vehicle I get into and the most comfortable and quite to drive.
It is also the least expensive to power. Of course one can argue the cost of the vehicle itself. My restored 1970 truck vehicle cost was higher than the EV.

Will Green Energy stand alone, not now. Lets start somewhere. In 500 years, oil as we know it, will be exhausted and something will change.

The impermanence of everything is always on my mind.
Cheers

[GOPAPA]

Originally Posted by Accelo

I just completed at round trip of 8.5 hours, 4.25 hours each way, for less than $10 of electricity. Certainly the price we paid for elect was below the average in the US. I was able to charge at private residents at both ends.

EV's are efficient, between 85% and 90% depending on the model. Our old trucks are roughly 20%.

No other mode of transportation can turn the potential energy back into fue,l except an electric car. Crossed the Cascade mountains and of course used more energy climbing but charged the battery all the way down the other side.

On of the major advantages of an EV is much of the maintenance if an ICE vehicle is not required. (No radiator, water-pump, exhaust, O2 sensors, engine air cleaner, transmission, oil filters) The list goes on. I rotate the tires once a year and change the cabin air cleaner every two years.

Hybrids are OK but you have all the systems of an EV and an ICE car. This negates one of the biggest advantages of an electric car, the minimum maintenance that is required.
Just spent $4000 getting the transmission rebuilt on her Tahoe! She hates getting the hard sell every time she bring it in for service. My EV has required zero servicing in a year.
Would I purchase an Electric Truck, nope. We are not there yet. Are they for everyone, nope. Does it work for me? Yeah, very much so.

I know all the arguments against EV's yet I have one. It's the first vehicle I get into and the most comfortable and quite to drive.
It is also the least expensive to power. Of course one can argue the cost of the vehicle itself. My restored 1970 truck vehicle cost was higher than the EV.

Will Green Energy stand alone, not now. Lets start somewhere. In 500 years, oil as we know it, will be exhausted and something will change.

The impermanence of everything is always on my mind.
Cheers

Great Read.. and one day our collector Gas Trucks just may not be worth as much when spending maybe $25-$50 @ gal for gas to enjoy driving them.

[kwmech]

Wait a few years till the thieves figure out a way to steal the battery out of your car for the metal in them

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by GOPAPA

Great Read.. and one day our collector Gas Trucks just may not be worth as much when spending maybe $25-$50 @ gal for gas to enjoy driving them.

That should be long after I'm gone or maybeeeeeeeeeeeee?

[67C10Step]

Originally Posted by Accelo

I just completed at round trip, in my EV, of 8.5 hours, 4.25 hours each way, for less than $10 of electricity. Certainly the price we paid for elect was below the average in the US. I was able to charge at private residents at both ends.

EV's are efficient, between 85% and 90% depending on the model. Our old trucks are roughly 20%.

No other mode of transportation can turn the potential energy back into fuel, except an electric car. Crossed the Cascade mountains and of course used more energy climbing but charged the battery all the way down the other side.

On of the major advantages of an EV is the reduced maintenance compared to an ICE vehicle. (No radiator, water-pump, exhaust, O2 sensors, engine air cleaner, transmission, oil filters) The list goes on.
I rotate the tires once a year and change the cabin air cleaner every two years.

Hybrids are OK but you have all the systems of an EV and an ICE car. This negates one of the biggest advantages of an electric car, the minimum maintenance that is required.
Just spent $4000 getting the transmission rebuilt on her Tahoe! She hates getting the hard sell every time she bring it in for service. My EV has required zero servicing in a year.
Would I purchase an Electric Truck, nope. We are not there yet. Are they for everyone, nope. Does it work for me? Yeah, very much so.

I know all the arguments against EV's yet I have one. It's the first vehicle I get into and the most comfortable and quite to drive.
It is also the least expensive to power. Of course one can argue the cost of the vehicle itself. My restored 1970 truck vehicle cost was higher than the EV.

Will Green Energy stand alone, not now. Lets start somewhere. In 500 years, oil as we know it, will be exhausted and something will change.

The impermanence of everything is always on my mind.
Cheers

This perspective is appreciated and, as an engineer, I know all things are temporary at best. Today's truth is often debunked by new information as it is discovered.
What is not talked about with EV's is the bigger picture, overall mass and energy balance. Plus, the amount of petroleum required to produce and make an EV function (plastics, oils, greases, etc.) is not insignificant.
Finally, IMO the maintenance costs are just moved down the road to when batteries need to be replaced. Currently, when batteries need replacing the EV is essentially totaled.
Now don't get me wrong, they absolutely work perfectly for many. Much like an electric push mower and trimmer work for many, many people. As technology progresses they will become increasingly more practical for many.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Accelo

I just completed at round trip, in my EV, of 8.5 hours, 4.25 hours each way, for less than $10 of electricity. Certainly the price we paid for elect was below the average in the US. I was able to charge at private residents at both ends.

EV's are efficient, between 85% and 90% depending on the model. Our old trucks are roughly 20%.

No other mode of transportation can turn the potential energy back into fuel, except an electric car. Crossed the Cascade mountains and of course used more energy climbing but charged the battery all the way down the other side.

On of the major advantages of an EV is the reduced maintenance compared to an ICE vehicle. (No radiator, water-pump, exhaust, O2 sensors, engine air cleaner, transmission, oil filters) The list goes on.
I rotate the tires once a year and change the cabin air cleaner every two years.

Hybrids are OK but you have all the systems of an EV and an ICE car. This negates one of the biggest advantages of an electric car, the minimum maintenance that is required.
Just spent $4000 getting the transmission rebuilt on her Tahoe! She hates getting the hard sell every time she bring it in for service. My EV has required zero servicing in a year.
Would I purchase an Electric Truck, nope. We are not there yet. Are they for everyone, nope. Does it work for me? Yeah, very much so.

I know all the arguments against EV's yet I have one. It's the first vehicle I get into and the most comfortable and quite to drive.
It is also the least expensive to power. Of course one can argue the cost of the vehicle itself. My restored 1970 truck vehicle cost was higher than the EV.

Will Green Energy stand alone, not now. Lets start somewhere. In 500 years, oil as we know it, will be exhausted and something will change.

The impermanence of everything is always on my mind.
Cheers

I appreciate your insight but the fact that a 4.25 hr drive was a noteworthy event is one of my problems with EV's. I can leave with a moments notice for that trip with an ICE, just a quick fuel stop before leaving town. No preplanning a route that includes or ends at a charger, no range anxiety, no long waits at a charge station during a popular travel weekend.

Also the premium price for EV's is a non-starter for me. I can buy a Honda civic for nearly half the price of a model 3. Yeah the 3 is cheaper to run but I have to do a lot of running in it to overcome the premium I paid up front.

[A1971Blazer]

No one is talking about the source of the energy for this fad.
The "I feel good, I'm helping the environment with my EV" is the biggest crock of BS ever perpetrated.
The power grid is a LONG way from being able to sustain everyone having an EV, especially with "green energy"

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by A1971Blazer

No one is talking about the source of the energy for this fad.
The "I feel good, I'm helping the environment with my EV" is the biggest crock of BS ever perpetrated.
The power grid is a LONG way from being able to sustain everyone having an EV, especially with "green energy"

I agree, and the EV tech has a loooooong way to go. Get me an EV that will travel 4-500 miles on a charge that doesn't take 3-4 hours to get to 100% and maybe then I'll consider. My neighbors Tesla takes a little over an hour when he's only got about 50 miles left. his range is about 250-270 miles

[Tom]

California: buy EV's!
Also California: heres your rolling blackout on power dates

[notsolo]

And you don't want to look where, and who mines the cobalt and lithium needed for the batteries.1 plant in the US recycling batteries...Green?..Not so much.

[Steeveedee]

^ Every time someone gets all smug about their EV, I point out what that picture describes- "There's a coal-fired power plant in another state sending you those electrons!".

[truckster]

I would happily compare the cost of ownership of my Blazer against any EV.

On top of that, it's just so dang fun to drive, especially now that it's summer and the top is off.

[Accelo]

The state I live in (WA) has lots of dams that use waters potential energy for electricity. I acknowledge not all states are the same.
The county I drove to owns a dam on the Columbia River. Not all the dams are not all federally owned. Because of this Dad pays 2.7 cents a KWH. It’s some of the least expensive power in the country.

If you burned the gas in a boiler it could burn at 80% efficiency. Even with the power transportation losses it's more efficient than the 20% the typical ICE car. Studies have shown that after roughly 60K miles the EV has less effect on the environment than an ICE car.
Batteries have been run for over 300k and still have over 80% capacity. Largely depending on how they are treated and charged. Like any engine.

Many EV's can charge at over 1000 miles per hour in the sweet spot of charging. (20% to 75%) That’s 175 miles, of range, in 15 min.

My total maintenance costs, for last year, was $20 to have a flat repaired.

EV typically have no soul. My 70 truck with 354-hp at the wheels is more fun to drive. My electric car is faster both on the top end and 0 to 60.

I have not attempted to convinced any one to purchase an EV. Not intending to make that argument. Engineering has come a long way. ICE cars continue to get more efficient as to EV's.

Most people I know have more than one vehicle. EV's are perfect for the trips most do every day. Longer trips take some planning but you quickly get used to it.
The typical fear is running out of fuel/electrons. Most do much of their driving close to home. People seem to only be concerned about long trips.
In my EV, I leave every day with a full tank. Never had to wait at a charging station or a fuel station with my EV. Although I have been temped to go through the fuel line at Costco to fill my 5-gal tank for my mower just for giggles.

Driving in cold or very hot climates is not the best deal. Owners that can't charge at home likely shouldn't have an EV.

Drive what you want, purchase what you like. I have four cars and one is an EV, I also own three trucks. The EV works for me. When it doesn’t, I take the truck. I have to put fuel in it roughly every other month.

Drive fast and take chances.

[DeadheadNM]

Perhaps the recently overturned and “fundamentally misguided” Chevron vs. the Natural Resources Defense Council decision will ease onerous bureaucratic pressure driving EV goals/mandates.

[Stocker]

This has been one of the more interesting, informative threads I have read in awhile. A very good mix of facts & opinions. I appreciate all of it.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Perhaps the recently overturned and “fundamentally misguided” Chevron vs. the Natural Resources Defense Council decision will ease onerous bureaucratic pressure driving EV goals/mandates.

I find that incredibly hard to believe. I'll do some reading tomorrow. I've been up since 4:30 AM and fading fast.

[57taskforce]

I’d rather dip my head in battery acid than drive an EV 2 or 4 or whatever door Camaro. Change the damn name and let the REAL Camaro name die the ICE legend that it is, if you’re going to go the EV route with a similar “pony car”. Just my .02 of course.

AND…. I can’t wait to watch ford go out of business trying to sell smaller “profitable” vehicles that there biggest customer base doesn’t want. Just like GM their bread and butter is full sized trucks and there variant suvs. Here’s an idea… why don’t we let the American people decide what they want instead of shoving crap down our throats… EVs certainly have a place in the US but the scale and scope of all this is total BS.

Pete; I saw a similar article earlier in the week, maybe there’s hope for real sanity coming our way after all.

[Sheepdip]

Imagine trying to move an Army/Navy with EV's..

[CAMAROBOY68SS]

Originally Posted by Accelo

The state I live in (WA) has lots of dams that use waters potential energy for electricity. I acknowledge not all states are the same.
The county I drove to owns a dam on the Columbia River. Not all the dams are not all federally owned. Because of this Dad pays 2.7 cents a KWH. It’s some of the least expensive power in the country.

If you burned the gas in a boiler it could burn at 80% efficiency. Even with the power transportation losses it's more efficient than the 20% the typical ICE car. Studies have shown that after roughly 60K miles the EV has less effect on the environment than an ICE car.
Batteries have been run for over 300k and still have over 80% capacity. Largely depending on how they are treated and charged. Like any engine.

Many EV's can charge at over 1000 miles per hour in the sweet spot of charging. (20% to 75%) That’s 175 miles, of range, in 15 min.

My total maintenance costs, for last year, was $20 to have a flat repaired.

EV typically have no soul. My 70 truck with 354-hp at the wheels is more fun to drive. My electric car is faster both on the top end and 0 to 60.

I have not attempted to convinced any one to purchase an EV. Not intending to make that argument. Engineering has come a long way. ICE cars continue to get more efficient as to EV's.

Most people I know have more than one vehicle. EV's are perfect for the trips most do every day. Longer trips take some planning but you quickly get used to it.
The typical fear is running out of fuel/electrons. Most do much of their driving close to home. People seem to only be concerned about long trips.
In my EV, I leave every day with a full tank. Never had to wait at a charging station or a fuel station with my EV. Although I have been temped to go through the fuel line at Costco to fill my 5-gal tank for my mower just for giggles.

Driving in cold or very hot climates is not the best deal. Owners that can't charge at home likely shouldn't have an EV.

Drive what you want, purchase what you like. I have four cars and one is an EV, I also own three trucks. The EV works for me. When it doesn’t, I take the truck. I have to put fuel in it roughly every other month.

Drive fast and take chances.

As a fellow PNW near the Columbia, we are a tad spoiled with all the hydro electric dams, only problem is the groups that have been getting more vocal about busting them up over the salmon. They want them all gone and then off no solution to offset the energy production. We took out the couple of nuclear plants we had that could have been a offset a long time ago.

The funny thing with what the Ford CEO is he cant make up his mind. He wants consumers to get off the bigger SUV/Crossover segment for smaller stuff, yet Ford dropped all its actual car lines, outside of the Mustang, because they followed the market. So in a way he is like trying to get people to leave the Ford brands and go to somewhere like Toyota or Honda that are still making mid size and smaller cars.

Your starting to see the OEMs of the world starting to back track on the EV push again. The people that want them have them and for the most part are happy. They are at the point where they are now pushing on the fence sitters or the people who want nothing to do with them. The middle of the road ones are still falling towards ICE over EV percentage wise or just holding onto their current cars longer as I think there is a group now that are thinking a big leap in EV tech is coming soon that will basically make all current ones useless/outdated and need to be replaced. Kind of like buying a video game console that's been out for a handful of years only for the new one to come out and the older games wont work on it.

[dagnabbitt]

I'm not getting into an argument about the merit of EVs.

But for the still-produced ICE vehicles: why not offer an affordable car or truck that meets safety and emissions standards... but which has roll up windows, a handle to move the (cloth) seat forward and back, a rubber floor, and no stupid ipad on the dash. Maybe people would want those. Maybe a six speed trans is fine, you don't need a 10 speed. Maybe more people would fight to keep their access to a modern, well built vehicle that is basic transportation. Make it a little harder for an EV company to enter the market, this is Business 101.

[Boog]

A couple of weeks ago in the news, I saw where a US battery plant was cutting back on production. I guess ford and gm both own battery plants here. We've seen the news saying tons of EVs are stocked up on dealer lots, not selling.
The question I have is how much real gov pressure is being put on the automakers to convert our society to ev?
The automakers cannot continue to lose money and still stay in business on the hope the buying public will come around to the ev concept.
At this point in time, ICE works for most as it has forever where EV works for only some. This push toward ev looks to me like a fast race toward limited vehicle ownership in our foreseeable future. My dad told me, when I was a young man, that vehicle ownership would one day become a luxury only the wealthiest could afford. I believe he was right.