47-59 Air Conditioning. My way, win or fail.

[Stepside Jim]

I've got 2 items left on my want list for my truck. Air Conditioning and Cruise control. A/C now installed and Cruise control should be in this week.

Focused on A/C, lets look at my specific needs. I already have a very good heater /defrost, I don't want to remove it and if I did, I've have holes in the firewall not being used. I also don't want a large A/C / Heater up under the dash with the ducting hoses filling the under side of the dash. I've installed Vintage Air units in the past, absolutely great products and the dollar amount for a kit has no bearing on my situation.

Ok, that's the under the dash situation. Oh, I also didn't want to cut holes in the dash for vent outlets nor did I want to hang a vent panel underneath the dash creating even more obstruction getting to stuff under the dash.

I have a Big Block with a street blower, for 10 years and 13,000 miles, never an over heating issue. I also have a trans cooler in front of the radiator, with the 57 grill, fitting a trans cooler and condenser is tricky and would slow air to the radiator. I'm not willing to risk a hotter engine for a cooler cab.

I certainly didn't want to have A/C hoses going from the compressor through the radiator support then back through the radiator support, the mounting a filter drier to the inner wheel well along with the wires going it the filter drier. Then installing a hot water shut off valve in the heater hose along with it's wiring. Then the hose through the firewall from the filter drier.

Once again, I'm not mocking or picking on A/C kits, I'm just one who likes to look at all things from a theological perspective and alter or redesign for my specific needs or wants. I also have no problem building and failing, my fail is a lesson for the future and the cost of my learning is cheaper than going to college.

First, order a small under dash A/C only unit. it's only $80.00 ebay, worth a shot. If this doesn't fit, the whole project stops, if it fits I'm moving forward.

I hand made my seat mounting years ago, fortunately I made it the perfect size for this A/C project. It fit under the passenger seat very well.

The front cover of the A/C unit has a 4 hose outlet cover, this will not work. I made a new cover to redirect the air flow where I needed it to go.

There will be more pics coming, my Internet service is not the best.....

[unclebrad]

I really ike your thinking here. I'd definitely like to follow along for when I do mine.

[dsraven]

looks like it fits pretty well under the seat. I would ensure there will be adequate air flow availability for the fan intakes and maybe some sort of filter to keep anything from floating into the area and getting sucked into the fans. I have a squirrel cage fan in my boat heater and it can make a little noise/vibration. maybe some insulating mounts if you find there is a problem.
back in trade school in the ac class the instructor said the a/c outlets should theoretically exit near the upper area of the cabin. this is because the hot air is at the top and the cooler air is at the bottom. disrupting this helps cool the cabin faster. you will also need a drain for condensate under the evaporator. some industrial air filters or heater/ac units have a rubber drain fitting that looks like a round tube with a grommet style end on one end, so it would snap into a hole in sheet metal, and the other end is pinched down flat, like a set of lips. this allows inside pressure to open the lips of the seal but also keeps outside dust etc from getting inside.

[Stepside Jim]

It's lunchtime so lets upload a few more. Thanks for checking in guys.

There are a couple different situations in this build, if this build works, there might be some usable ideas for others during their projects, or maybe a better understanding of how the A/C system works.

Now, I realize I'm giving up the vent blowing cold air directly into my face, but really, once the cab is cooled, 90 percent of the trip is on lower blower speed and the feeling of cool air is what lasts.

dsraven, The concern of a drain tube is covered. The unit has 2, 3/8 inch drain nipples and the kit came with hose and a tee. These pieces worked fine I did have to make 90 degree bends and I found heating the tubing with the heat gun and holding them to shape during cooling worked great.

Now I have this A/C system working as of now. I have no idea how it will keep up once we hit 100 degrees outside. With that being said, once I charged the system and had it working for about 20 minutes I rolled the truck back in the garage. Walking behind the truck was a puddle on the floor, damn, what could be leaking now. Took about 30 seconds, my frustration turned to joy when I realized it was the drain for the A/C condensation.

Fan sound is very minimal and I'll cover the outlet vents soon.
I still have the carpet in place. with the carpet below and the seat sitting over it

I made legs that go down below the A/C to hold the height of the unit, these legs support the weight and keeps the proper angle for moisture drainage. There is one factory mounting stud at the back, I used it for rear mount and in the front I made a mount bracket, the unit is very secure.

Amazon had the plastic adjustable vents. These are a key part to this set up.

I think I used 22 gauge sheet metal to make the front cover, very thin, very light. Exhaust pipe, 2 inch diameter, for the hose connections.

The couple of places you see bolt hole in the thin sheet metal are 1/4 inch. What you do not see is I used 18 gauge metal, welded nuts to the 18 gauge, then plug welded the 18 gauge to the thin metal. Stronger and no nuts to hold onto.

To be continued..

[mr48chev]

That should cool the cab well with the only big difference in actual AC being that it isn't gong to blow directly at you.

There are a lot of Ford Coupes from the early 30's running around with the AC unit mounted under the package tray behind the seat as that was a popular setup back about 40 years ago. Totally hidden and it keeps the inside of the car cool just as that should with your truck.

[bobinbc]

Thanks for posting, been waiting for this. Please show us the condenser and fan setup.

[Stepside Jim]

mr48chev, thanks for the encouraging words. It's very easy to feel defeated when thinking and stepping out of the box. The small details can make you wonder the project will work. I've learned to keep moving forward and learn from the mistakes.

bobinbc, I hear ya. I'm gonna post a couple more in cab pics to keep things together. I was gonna go to the under hood area next but since you have made a request, under the bed we will go.

I have three outlets in place, one passenger under seat, two, driver side under seat and third, up front in the floor counsel near firewall. The one at the firewall on high speed fan can be felt blowing by my shoulder, I can angle the vent to pass side or driver side and feel a more direct passing of air.

The ones under the seat are working as dsraven mentioned by blowing the air upwards. They both are directed towards the doors upwardly. They follow the door and blow past the dash where it meets the door then to the front window. In the end, all the air works its way up and center, then back to the A/C unit.

Looking at the pics of the A/C unit you can the outlet vent for the passenger side. I had to make it removeable so get the A/C unit in place, then I bolt the vent in place. The driver side vent uses one of the hose outlets and a 2 inch hose carries the air to it. I welded up a rectangular metal box for the plastic vent to fit into and it bolts into place. The floor counsel vent uses the second hose outlet and also gets fed by a 2 inch hose.

When sitting in the seats, the air doesn't hit the underside of your legs. The design of the 57 cab has you sitting inward from the door. The air has space to circulate without blowing on your leg.

[mr48chev]

There are a couple of combo units like that on Amazon for under 100.00 A Sanden compressor isn't hard to come up with nor is a condenser.

[Stepside Jim]

Last for the inside cab area.

The A/C unit comes with two switches, one switch is on/off and fan speed. The second switch dials in the preferred temp setting.

I really like having my control switches on the arm rest center counsel. Plus, the wires that come with the A/C unit are just long enough to reach the center counsel. I didn't want to run a second layer of switches so I made a kick out to mount them to. Note, this kick out serves two purposes, first, a convenient place for the switches, second, the temp switch has a gas bulb that reads the temperature of the cab. In the front and sides of the switch kick out I cut slots so the cab air can pass through and give the temp gas bulb the air to accurately adjust with the cab temp.

Yes, I purposely put space between the two switches, the cruise control has two switches in one unit that will fit in the open area.

A teaser for bobinbc. Vintage air makes a remote location condenser, My heart jumped when I found this available. Although we have space under the bed, it can still be tricky finding the proper location.

I'm kinda hoping Rickysnickers can rotate these pics, thanks.

[1project2many]

Nice job thinking out of the underdash box. Buses use similar setups. Compressor on engine, condenser under vehicle, evaporator in back or under a seat.

Good fans will help guarantee the condenser sheds enough heat. Ensure the fans blow down to get best results.

Evaporator is in a nice spot. Well protected. It's very humid in the Northeast and I'd think about upgrading drain tubing size. Damp evaporators are a nice spot for mold and bacteria to grow.

Hmm... With all the water coming out, I wonder if routing the evaporator liquid drain above condenser would aid in cooling. Evaporation does wonders for heat transfer.

Consider planning for future interior upgrades if needed. So much of making A/C effective is the feeling you are being cooled. And much of feeling cool is combatting radiant heat and solar heating. EX: Dodge Caravans after 2007 have a massive dash, all black. With A/C on full, air exiting the vents at 40 degrees, cabin air temp at 60 deg, people complain the a/c doesn't work due to the radiant heat from the dash. Adding a light gray dash mat "fixed" the A/C. I have other experiences from buses... much glass, no tint, "hot in the bus" even though it's less than 70 deg. inside on a 95 degree day. Block the sun and it feels 10 degrees cooler.

Looks great. I love that you're rolling your own. Keep up the good work!

[Stepside Jim]

Thanks for the picture rotation Rickysnickers.

Vintage Air remote A/C Condenser. I ordered mine from Summit, they had it in stock and the best price I came across. Looking at the questions and reviews for this part the only installation info given was to make sure it is angled so the liquid flows downward toward the outlet.

This makes sense, Condenser, meaning changing or turning something from a gas form to a liquid form. After the high pressure liquid freon leaves the condenser it heads to an expansion valve. The expansion valve allowing the freon to flow into the evaporator, which in my case is under the seat, the expansion valve has a small orifice/opening. It works best when high pressure liquid freon is forced though this small opening and comes out the other side as a low pressure mist. When freon is under high pressure, it becomes high temperature, when freon is low pressure, it becomes low temperature. We cool the evaporator with this mist, as we run a fan blowing air over the evaporator and send this cooled air into the vehicle.

Ok, class is over... The Condenser comes with the fan attached from Summit. There really isn't any instructions in the package other than mounting which didn't tell me much.

The idea of having it angled slightly makes sense so I did. I went at it the long way, but I usually do, I like a creative challenge. I removed one of the bed cross frames and removed a section that allowed the condenser to be raised higher in the rear of the condenser. This gave me the angle I wanted.

The cross brace picture shows I got involved and made mounting tabs that are a part of the bed cross brace. The front mounting just used the cross frame as it is. I still had to make mounting tabs for the condenser itself.

I used exhaust rubber mounts to absorb and vibration and frame twist along the way.

Could I have simply mounted the condenser to the existing design of the bed cross brace, yes, but I would have had to drop the front of the condenser to get my angle. The drive shaft is nearby and I figured better safe than sorry. Plus my sway bar is is the area of the rear of the condenser, once again, better safe than sorry. If your vehicle has plenty of space for the driveshaft to travel, you can come up with a different mounting than I did.

If you do not have an under bed gas tank, that area may be something to consider.

[Stepside Jim]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Good fans will help guarantee the condenser sheds enough heat. Ensure the fans blow down to get best results.

Good point... I considered which way to install, fan on top or fan on bottom. Meaning, wiring the way it is factory to blow down, the fan would have to be on the bottom. Having fan on bottom blowing down put the fan much closer to the driveshaft, it was my original intention. Perhaps, I can reverse positive and negative and spin the fan backwards for a downflow.

On the other hand, the natural flow of the heat would be upwards, but against the force of a fan, natural would lose.

Thanks for checking in. I was hoping for some A/C conversation for those not familiar with the inner workings.

[bobinbc]

I really like how you made a new plenum for the front of the unit, something I will probably use. I likely won't be using the remote condenser, but I like how you did it. I'm wondering if there is a way to determine what size compressor is needed for a given size evaporator/condenser? I'm starting to piece together a system for my current project (1977 280Z) which will be a trial run for doing it on the truck. Thanks for the tutorials!

[dsraven]

nice tidy work on the system.
after replacing the condensor in my '15 silverado due to a crack in the welds I wonder about the actual mounting locations of the condensor because the weight of the condensor and fan is hung on the somewhat flimsy central core area rather than the more stiff ends of the condensor coil. it is a common issue with the silverado that a small weld will crack where the end of the coil cross pieces are connected to the "tube" on each end/side. this condensor looks similar in build design so I just wonder about flexing and the thin aluminum core material not withstanding that for long before something fails. possibly if the 2 sides of that condensor cross piece, where the brackets are bolted on, were to be connected with a short spacer and then the small bolts were replaced with longer ones to attach the bracket to both sides of the condensor cross piece through that spacer? possibly just a seperate attachment bracket to capture each end tube in a mount as well? maybe you just use it as is and see what happens?
curious also, when the fan is turned on to max speed, is there any flex in the brackets or condensor that may result in a fatigue failure?
after having a few driveshaft/ujoint failures over the years due to high output engines and sudden torque application, like a hard shift, harsh holeshot or wheel hop, I wonder if some sort of guard would be helpful in case of a driveshaft failure or possibly road debris.
I also wonder about the airflow available to the fan input as available input normally needs to be larger than output. I assume the bed floor will not be cut above the condensor to allow airflow so the fan would draw air from above the condensor, between the box sill supports, meaning it draws air from a channel a couple of inches in height with available cooling air being drawn in from each side of the condensor area, and the fan mounts pretty close to the underside of the bed floor wood. it seems like the fan will be working hard to access enough air to flow at it's rated output? maybe i am missing something in the pics?
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, as me being critical of your build. i like to take any ideas under consideration given when I am "engineering" from scratch and I hope you do as well. you're doing a great job and I am just giving ideas and input for you to consider. maybe I am not seeing the big picture?
sometimes when I am "engineering from scratch" I will build a model in my mind or on paper. like a 3D computer model. in this case i would start with the condensor held in space, no truck around it, laid flat like it would be in the project. add the fan to the top, that seems like it will work, then start adding the truck around that. in this case the bed floor above, the cross sills and brackets, etc. now step back and see if it will work from as many stand points as you can think of.
fan airflow available to fan input when stopped, hot day, engine fan also running, exhaust pipes nearby shedding heat? exhaust tips nearby shedding heat, moisture and caustic gasses? how low does the vehicle sit to the ground in order to get rid of underbody heat?
mount design and integrity over long term, any failure points stick out? are there failsafes needed in the case of a rubber mount failure
when vehicle is moving what could possibly cause a failure? road debris, pebbles, tire splash, is there guards required anywhere?
hose and wire harness routing ok, no added stressors to the condensor caused by flexing, vibration or movement of these items?
any sensors are well guarded from mechanical interference?
if another vehicle component were to fail is the system guarded? tire blow out, driveshaft failure, exhaust pipe hanger etc?
is the system able to be moved easily enough for vehicle servicing of nearby components? in this case, can you service nearby without discharging and removing the a/c parts? can you work on other stuff without damaging the condensor, hoses, sensors, fan etc?

feel free to cuss me out, I'm fairly resilient. haha

[dsraven]

wow, that got long winded. sorry.
previously I was a heavy duty mechanic and a proffessional firefighter. both jobs required me to be critical, looking for what was possibly the cause of a problem, what is currently a problem and can possibly cause a problem in the future. sorry, I can't help it. my wife says I am too critical. lol.

[Stepside Jim]

dsraven, wow long winded is right. That's ok, you may be asking questions that others may be thinking but don't post.

The picture, mainly the one of the mounting of the back of the condenser is close to the bed floor, it certainly wouldn't flow enough air. Once we get to the front of the condenser due to the down ward angle, both sides end up with approximately 5 inches of open space and the front mounting cross section has a couple of inches once you figure in the blockage from the cross frames.

When I look at the actual fan and the opening it has for air passage, I figure I'm good to go.

As for mounting, You are right on the frame twist and movement, I thought the same thing. The package came with four brackets which would use 2 screws per corner and solid mounting to the frame. This was unacceptable to me for the exact reasons you mentioned. The fan shroud covers the upper flange making it difficult to use longer screw and capturing the upper flange.
My solution was add 8 more screws overall to evenly spread the mounting pressures and use the rubber mounts to absorb and frame twist.

You mentioned the concern for if the rubber mounts fail over time. I thought the same thing. I was going to do 6 rubber mounts, I figured another 2 mounts will help the longevity before they fail.

The two hoses are supported within 12 to 14 inches from the condenser, this will keep the weight of the hose from playing a part

I think we both think the same and enjoy the process. We have a project at hand and in order to be successful, we think many steps ahead to find the best outcome for usage and longevity. During this thinking process, and during this thinking and imagining the needs, please, nobody ask me any questions.

You have many other concerns that come into play, I think with every modification we make with our projects there are always concerns we have to weigh along the way.

[Stepside Jim]

Let's control the condenser fan. The instructions tell me to install a trinary switch on the filter drier.

I ordered the trinary switch, I installed the trinary switch, reluctantly so, after seeing the 250 PSI that will be reached to turn on the fan. To me, that's too high. at least too high for the fan to begin doing it's job.

When I put this truck together I used Painless wiring adjustable temp sensors. Two fans, two sensors, two different temp settings. They have worked flawless for 10 years. You just have to make the sensors probe touch the radiator, then adjust the dial when you want the fans to turn on.

That over heating trinary switch will not be used, a painless switch is going in. I figure Ill set the switch to turn on around 150 pounds pressure.

I've located the switch close to the condenser since the probe is fairly frail and put vacuum hose over it for safe keeping. The probe reaches back and makes contact with the main condenser tube.

To hold it in place I can't use plastic zip ties for fear of the heat causing them to fail. I am using stainless ties that are used to hold exhaust wrapping on, heat, no problem. I will be using 2 ties when done.

The frame provides a fairly water proof pocket for the switch and I made a safety cover to protect the turn handle.

So, lets talk theory. Does Vintage air feel the remote condenser is efficient enough to do the cooling without a fan blowing until this pretty high pressure is reached.

According to my chart, knowing that freon pressure changes freon temperature, from 250 pounds down to 150 pounds pressure, should have the fan turning on about 35 degrees less. Sounds good to me.

Disclaimer...I'm no pro, if I'm wrong on my numbers let me know, I don't want to mislead anybody.

[dsraven]

I come from a wet and freezing cold climate with wet, snowy or icy road conditions, sometimes all in the same day, so not too familiar with the circumstances where you live. for me that switch left hanging out in the weather is a big red "what're you doing?" sign. I would use a waterproof switch, inside a sealed container, with a light bulb to keep it warm and some soft music playing in the background. that's just me though. lol
ok, no light bulb.
haha
nice clean work you do.
have you access to some tooling or is it all cut and built by hand?

[Stepside Jim]

I really didn't have much choice on the switch mounting, it has to be this switch and it has to have the temp probe, of which is best to have it very close to what you are temp probing. The pic makes it look like it's hanging down low but it's actually tucked inside the up sweep part of the cross frame. Knowing the environment isn't the best I closed off most of the frame from water getting in and made the bottom cover plate.

As you've seen from the pics of the frame, this truck after 10 years, is very clean, rarely does it see and bad weather.

I'd say my fabrication is 50/50 by hand and I do have a CNC plasma cutter.

Lets' finish up the under side of the truck A/C install.

One item I mentioned in the introduction is getting the Filter Drier off of the inner front passenger wheel well. I bought a kit that has an assortment of fittings and a filter drier. They also send two flimsy wrap around clamps that I have no idea how to use them to effectively mount the filter drier. I used a section of 2 1/4 inch exhaust pipe, with a little finesse I made it fit the outer housing of the filter drier, then made a mounting tab, weld together , solid mount, oh, and hose clamps. Then bolted it all to the frame.

Now moving to the compressor and running the hoses. I can't make them disappear, but I can try to make them not stand out. Well, I guess they are gonna be there no matter what, so how about we at least be creative and try something different.

Sorry for the purplish colors, the LED light seems to cause that.