Improving handling short of new frame

[chris mc bride]

Whuile working in Panel I have seen few places the need strengthening for handling. Problem I have is I am drag racer thru and thru. I do drive agressively out in country amd have run very hiogh speeds in Z/28 on very twisty roads. I am not edumacated in raoid race suspenions.

Suggestions on how to strengthen frame,swing arms,tracking and overall handling without going to new frame which would be ultimate right after unlimited cash flow.

Life long fabricator. Build dragster and door car chassis from pile of tubing,Build house for living. Build motorcycles from ground up. So can make most things will need. Give me good picture and can build measurment help shorten the job(lol).

Plan is sway bars, performance shocks, lowering front and rear some but not slammed look. Redoing rear swing arms with track locator. Thought about 4 link setup but not sure how much benifit.Plus like it to look semi oem.

SO suggest away and if short explanation of benifit would be great.

[cadillac_al]

It will depend on what vehicle you have. I would love to have a 73-87 C10 shortbed to set up like a Camaro. I would also love a 68-72 C10 short bed if they had the trailing arm suspension and coil springs in the rear. I'm not positive if the short beds had that set up.

[chris mc bride]

The 69 Panel in avatar. Does have coil springs and trailing arm rear. Lot ios frontal weight with bbc,but loosing 100 or so with new aluminum heads and intake .P;us ,oving battery to rear. Adding extra tank in front of rear left wheel. Will be lowering truck 3 front and rear.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

To improve handling. Obviously besides lowering the truck, and big sway bars.

Pancake the cross member, and gain a little ground clearance.

Then section the spring pocket while at it. Or lower the spring pocket 1 inch. This effectively does a Gulstrand mod to your cross member like the Camaros did.

Move your lower A arm forward 3/4 to 1 inch. You can do this by drilling a new divot in the arm to locate it.

Flip the axle to the top of the springs, and flip the rear hanger. Run longer shackles to give a more progressive spring rate. While at it atleast C notch the frame to gain clearance.

Get some.2x2 1/8th wall box tube, and fabricate mew shock mounts for the rear..

Also depending on how much and how you drop the front. You may need shock relocation brackets for the front.

DM me and I can send a few pics to your email. I can't post here.with my old picture account

[cadillac_al]

Originally Posted by chris mc bride

The 69 Panel in avatar. Does have coil springs and trailing arm rear. Lot ios frontal weight with bbc,but loosing 100 or so with new aluminum heads and intake .P;us ,oving battery to rear. Adding extra tank in front of rear left wheel. Will be lowering truck 3 front and rear.

oops, I guess I skimmed over those first 4 words .

[Richard]

Originally Posted by cadillac_al

I would also love a 68-72 C10 short bed if they had the trailing arm suspension and coil springs in the rear. I'm not positive if the short beds had that set up.

Coils were standard on 2WD, leaf's were an option and more uncommon especially on SWB. Except on 4WD which leaf is standard and not an option.

[theastronaut]

Keep the spring rate reasonable, don't make it so stiff that it's not compliant. Add really good double adjustable shocks, you want well controlled compliance, not just "stiffer". Stiff feels "sporty" but its not faster around corners in real life. If it's not compliant it won't handle well and you'll hate riding in it. My autocross car has very soft springs but good very good shock valving; it always has the most body roll of any car at a given event but it regularly places top ten overall on the alignment I drive on every day and feels dead stable since its not skipping and hopping sideways over mid corner bumps because it simply absorbs them with no drama.


Use QA1's taller upper ball joints for better camber gain geometry. Run approximately -1.5 to -2 camber at ride height and minimal toe in. I run approx -2 and 1/16" in on my C10.


Move the lower control arm shaft forward 5/8 to 3/4" to add more caster by milling a new locating hole in the shaft. This will also add camber gain as you turn the wheels.


A Borgeson or Detroit Speed steering box will tighten up the steering feel, and you can use a Borgeson kit for the pump to fine tune power assist level to suit how much steering effort you like.


Relocate the rear shocks. Not sure about panels, but on trailing arm C10s they're inboard and laid down at a forward diagonal angle, which becomes a much steeper angle after lowering. You'll want to move the shocks outboard of the frame and behind the axle, closer to the wheel so that it has more leverage on the suspension movement/body roll. I've done this on my C10 by flipping the lower mounts side to side, drilling a new hole for the U-bolt to adjust the mounting angle as needed, then installing a upper shock stud in the frame rail. This makes a huge difference in stability on a C10 and would make an even bigger difference on a heavier panel.


The stock trailing arms are perfect as-is. Making them stiffer or using stiffer bushings introduces unnatural resistance to roll/articulation. You want to primarily adjust roll stiffness with spring rate and shock damping first, then sway bars. Do raise the front of the trailing arm mount on the crossmember or else you'll lose forward grip when accelerating- flip the stock mount, or use an aftermarket mount.


If you're just driving on the street and not chasing lap times the stock rear track bar is fine as-is, or get an adjustable one to make sure the rear is centered. If you're getting body roll under control then it's not going to articulate as much anyway, so reducing side to side travel with a longer bar doesn't really matter much at that point. The aftermarket adjustable ones that let you adjust roll center are great, but not really necessary unless you're trying to trim lap times.


Wheels and tires- tall, bulging sidewalls are floppy which allows extra body motion and throws your alignment and improved geometry out the window under cornering load. There are lots of 18" sticky compound dot legal 200tw tires with firm sidewalls that will give it loads more grip than a normal summer/sport tires and will have better steering feel due to the stiffer sidewalls. Don't run too wide of a tire for the wheel width- that also adds to sidewall flex and takes away steering feel.


Sounds like you're building a street truck, not a race truck. Don't get caught up in shiny "go fast" parts/mods targeted at making the truck stiffer and more sporty feeling but don't actually make it really handle any better. The market is flooded with parts to improve handling and some do, some don't. The things I listed will go a long way in making your stock frame/suspension handle really well on the street and still be comfortable to drive it regularly.

[chris mc bride]

Thanks for very detailed reply.Lots to covedr so copied and filed away.. Zfigure will be rereading few times. Thabks for info

Not figuring it will be my 96 z/28 with couple thousand and ton of hours. Just liuke to mess up some young punkls day getting ass whipped by old fart in big old truck.LOL

[biketopia]

Have you looked at Rob from No Limit Engineering's stuff? He has a whole thread on here titled make it handle. I'm sure with some creative thinking, you could adopt ideas from that thread to your build.

[A1971Blazer]

I used a frame stiffener and QA1 coil over suspension kits front and rear on my '67 SWB step side, along with a Borgeson quick ratio steering gear.
I am well pleased with the results in handling and ride quality.

[chris mc bride]

Yea you guys with nioce big shop are just cheating and have it too easy.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by chris mc bride

Yea you guys with nioce big shop are just cheating and have it too easy.

Or..... They work within their resources.
Some guys might have less than us. Others possibly have more.

An educated & skilled guy in a driveway can build a better vehicle than another w/less skill & knowledge in a well-equipped shop.

[chris mc bride]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Or..... They work within their resources.
Some guys might have less than us. Others possibly have more.

An educated & skilled guy in a driveway can build a better vehicle than another w/less skill & knowledge in a well-equipped shop.

Was jealousy comment. I have built top notch race cars in very small shop and one under a car port that won quite a few races.

Shop sure would make lot easier doing body work and not having to spreay cheap sealer before calling night so as not to give rust head start on work just done/

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by chris mc bride

Was jealousy comment. I have built top notch race cars in very small shop and one under a car port that won quite a few races.

Shop sure would make lot easier doing bidy work and not having to spreay cheap sealer bfor calling night so as not to give rust head start on work just done/

Understood.

It is amazing what one w/knowledge & resolve can do w/a good 'space'.

[biketopia]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Or..... They work within their resources.
Some guys might have less than us. Others possibly have more.

An educated & skilled guy in a driveway can build a better vehicle than another w/less skill & knowledge in a well-equipped shop.

This forum really needs a "like" button! A lot of really good, thought-out responses in this thread.

[chris mc bride]

so far the plan is to stay on mild side. Coil overs in rear replacing coils and shock. Moving to behind rear-end and outward to outside of frame rails. Lowering front with springs and drop spindles. Adding sway bar to front. 18" wheels all around. Flipping trailing arm brackets to move arms up. Adding the posi traction is a needless to say, but did anyway.
Moving lower a-arms.625 to .750. Removing some weight from front end with aluminum heads on the 454 to aide the new cam ion getting more air in so the new headers can get it out to the 3" duals can deliver it to the Borla XS pro muffler, That should allow all behind me to hear me as I run out of their life. Moving battery to rear and relocating tank back some giving it leverage on rear should help some.
Swapping out 3 spd for 4L80E. Yea heavy but free. Should help mileage some and I have destroyed a lot of those old 3 spds in past. Ok little more info than just suspension upgrades info/

If that sounds more than mild? Then you have never met me. Lil History went bracket racing in 1987 with 5.70 1/8 car. IN 1989 Top alcohol Funny car(6,20s in 1/4 mile) and top half of field car on 1992 and on. So mild just not my norm.

[SCOTI]

Instead of just flipping the front T/A mounts, look into aftermarket adjustable units. Multiple holes allow dialing in the angles vs it is what it is (& it requires the same effort).

[chris mc bride]

Thanks. While said keeping mild. I did find adjustable mounts with custom crossmember I liked. While more work not much money to build one. Hell they gave me picture. That, saws, welder and grinder and piece of heavy wall 2x6 and It can be made. LOL be easier just swapping out whole deal. Besides was going to have to modify factory for exhaust pass thru. So really not that much more work and factory piece ugly as hell to boot.

I was trying to stay out of the change iy all and you guys are pulling me back in.LOL

[PowerdbyChevy79]

Originally Posted by A1971Blazer

I used a frame stiffener and QA1 coil over suspension kits front and rear on my '67 SWB step side, along with a Borgeson quick ratio steering gear.
I am well pleased with the results in handling and ride quality.
Attachment 2426111

Do you have pics of your Stance?