Me & My '59 Apache - The Story Begins

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

I took a chance and got a complete eBay instrument panel cluster including the bezel with good glass and it got here maybe a week ago - for a little under $72.00 USD. Swapping the old one out and putting this one in was easy this afternoon and I was anxious to try it out. The gas gauge and the oil pressure gauge both work just like the original instrument panel.

Unlike my original cluster, this speedometer is quiet and the needle moves but strangely, it has the exact same speed error as the original. Its also about 12-15 MPH faster than the actual GPS speed.

I think I will just have to live with this for now and I believe the problem is that it needs a different drive gear inside the tail cone of the TH350. The driven gear got replaced and that only corrected the error by maybe two miles per hour. To change the drive gear is deeper into the transmission than I want to go for now.

Rick

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

I have sent an original 1979 Rochester Quadrajet model M4MC off for a rebuild at Mountain Man Fuel Systems in Arkansas. The carburetor that sits atop the '79 donor 350 engine in this truck is a Chinese copy of an Edelbrock AVS2 that was on it when I got it and the previous owner gave me the original Q-Jet carb from the donor motor. The Q-Jet rebuild will also include a conversion to an electric choke and it appears to me that both of the vacuum break assemblies will need to be replaced - they no longer hold a vacuum. Mountain Man will also put bushings into the carb base at the throttle shafts to prevent vacuum leaks - a notorious problem for Rochester carbs.

The Chinese counterfeit carb struggles to hold a good idle at a stop sign. It quickly loads up and begins to stumble until I can get the RPM above about 1000-1100. Everything is fine after that. Externally, this carb appears identical to a no kidding Eddy AVS 2 but it has no model number, serial number or AVS adhesive sticker. I don't want to waste a bunch of time tracking down a rebuild kit for a carburetor that may be internally different than a real Edelbrock carb.

I used to think that some of my truck's drivability concerns were torque converter related but I have moved on from that suspicion. Maybe the camshaft in this motor is a little more radical than I thought - more than just a motor home RV cam?? IDK. We shall see once I get the Q-Jet back.

Rick

[dsraven]

you may also benefit from having the distributor recurved to match your "new to truck" engine and possibly "different from donor vehicle" requirements. this can make a huge difference.
not meaning to take away from your thread but here is a little true story that may make you think
a few years ago I did a complete body off resto for a buddy. it was a 77 ford f150 4x4. another buddy of his had previously done an engine swap for him years before. his buddy dabbled in racing and had a 390 engine, that was all done up for racing, dropped between the frame rails and hooked up to the truck 4 speed. the truck owner had said he wanted me to scrap that engine entirely because it had never run properly since day one for the use he needed, it ran ok on the street but was a handful offroad. he was a hunter and outdoors man who made his way through the bush and rocky mountains around southern Alberta, often in low range 4x4. a screaming engine was NOT what he wanted, he wanted a low rpm lugger. he had found another donor truck with a 351 big block in it and wanted that installed. I put it all together but it had sat for awhile previously and was not running well. old carburetor problems. he came over with a new edelbrock carb and we installed that. a huge difference but it still wasn't putting out at full potential and had some acelleration issues and even backfiring through the intake at times if the throttle was mashed. i took the truck to a performance shop and they rebuilt/recurved the distributor to match the use and also tweaked the new carb using their exhaust analyser. the truck felt like a whole different truck and he said it had never ran so well since new. it pulled hard at low rpm, started well, idled well and made driving the truck a pleasure. no dead spots whether the throttle was mashed or just feathered a little, like he needed often while out in the bush. he said it made driving the truck offroad so much better because he didn't have to worry about whether it was going to hicuup if he needed to give it little gas when crossing a creek or navigating a mud bog etc.
moral of the story is just that, possibly, a little cash spent on a performance shop adjustment and tune might make you absolutely love driving your truck and make it more reliable at the same time. off the shelf parts don't often work at their full potential unless they are adjusted as a whole for the rpm range and requirements needed
end of rant

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY

[B52bobardier1]

Hello Dennis,

As always, great advice. I don't believe that there is anybody around here locally that can recurve an HEI distributor but I will ask some of my fellow street rod club members.

The truck runs well above idle. I went out to a parts store in it this morning for some weatherstrip cement to get it good and warmed up and came back - then bumped up the idle RPM a bit more. Maybe 150 RPM and we shall see how it does. Even after this adjustment, I still don't feel that it takes too much brake pedal force to keep the truck stopped.

If I can eliminate variables to this situation one at a time, I will eventually figure it out.

Rick

[dsraven]

Maybe check out the inline vacuum check valve at the booster. While doing that sed what you have for available vacuum at idle. Next I would google how to properly diagnose a vacuum brake booster to ensure you're getting alm the assist you should be
What is your booster diameter and is it a single or dual diaphragm style?

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

The carburetor seems to do better and not stumble the engine so much at about 1050 for an idle RPM in park / neutral. In drive, this brings the RPM down to about 850 which is also an OK RPM when sitting at a stop light or stop sign and the carb does not stumble at that RPM either. For now, I'm happy until . . .

I had to change out the fuel pump today. The garage smelled a lot like gasoline so much that it was necessary for me to pull the truck out to prevent a possible fire. The only quick way to stop the leak was to clamp the rubber fuel line immediately before the Baldwin fuel filter because the pump was self siphoning gas from the tank.

Initially and once the truck was outside, I tried tightening the connections in and out of the pump but that did not help. And I could not see where it was leaking from. But once I got the pump out this morning, it was clear to see that it was leaking from the two holes in the body of the pump that must be weep holes. Its odd that they would design a pump for gasoline with weep holes.

All is well again, no leaks. I have no idea how old the failed pump was but there is a new one in there now.

Rick

[dsraven]

well, at least this happened while it was parked. the same thing happened to me once while I was driving through the mountains where there is no parts store for many miles. we didn't smell fuel till we stopped at the next town, Revelstoke BC. i shut it off and checked the underside to find the passenger's side of the engine and trans were sparkling clean, from the fuel pump back. fortunately the gas station had a repair bay and the fella stocked a fuel pump that would fit. I clearly remember it cost me over 60 bucks for that pump, 40+ years agao. I swapped it out myself on the side of the road.

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

My all new rear bed side chrome "spear" trim arrived yesterday in a long PVC pipe tube in great condition from QualityClassicParts.com and I'm very happy with it. Some small amount of assembly is required and I will have time next week to install it. I will post pictures then, of course.

I still have the sides of the front fender chrome spear-shaped trim and the front of the hood chrome trim to go on. These three pieces of trim are used parts from eBay and at the very least are going to need their paint renewed - the red and the black areas. My other hold up on installing these pieces is that I need measurements for where exactly to drill the mounting holes.

This red truck is for me, overloaded in red paint. It needs these chrome pieces to provide contrast to the red paint.

Rick

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

It has been a month since my last post and much has happened. New Accel distributor because the old one was apparently original to the 1979 donor truck and worn out. New Holley Demon 625 CFM carburetor model 1901 - never could get the choke adjusted or operating properly on the Chinese AVS2 clone. All new spark plugs.

New neutral safety switch because the other one would occasionally only let it start in neutral. I tried to adjust the old one and it would stay OK for a few days but I eventually gave up and got a new one.

New valve cover gaskets because the old gaskets leaked. New Sanderson Quiet Performer exhaust manifolds for the 350 motor because the headers were an exhaust leak problem. Flushed out the radiator fluid and brake fluid.

And finally!! I got the eBay purchased chrome spear trim replaced on both sides, the truck bed and the hood and it looks great. I will be re-doing the white "CHEVROLET" letters across the back of the tail gate next week.

After that, its time to sit back and enjoy the truck. Sorry for the crazy picture posture!!

Rick

[dsraven]

lookin good.
now for some miles.

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

I'm losing a lot of RPM on the motor stopped at a stoplight with this RV camshaft in the engine. Down from about 850 to around 550 RPM and the motor doesn't like to idle that low.

But I think I need a somewhat higher stall speed in the torque converter to solve this problem. My not so confident guess would be that there is a 1600 RPM stall speed converter in there now and I'm thinking 2000-2200 might be better. All of this with an otherwise very nicely running 350 cubic inch motor and a TH350 transmission.

Thoughts?

Rick

[dsraven]

does it have a fibre gasket under the carb? possibly it is getting heat soaked?
have you checked for a vacuum leak everywhere in the systems attached to the carb?
is the idle adjustment screw or dashpot moving, like backing out?
when you adjust the idle is it done with a/c on, in gear, at operating temp, after timing etc have been set?
are you running the same brand of fuel consistently?
does it always idle at the same rpm in gear with the a/c on? at operating temp, electric cooling fan running

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

I don't think the carb is getting heat soaked because I don't smell boiling fuel. I have sprayed small amounts of flammable carb cleaner around the intake and carb base and flowed some unlit propane in the same areas - no change in the idle RPM.

There is no air conditioning or electric fans in this truck. Idle RPM is set in Park. I generally buy the Walmart no ethanol 91 octane fuel.

I'm going to try harder to see if I can get it to idle at a lower RPM that will be slower than the point where the torque converter begins to lock up.

Rick

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

Finally got around to changing the gear oil in the differential. That old oil had to be original from 1979 when it went into the donor vehicle - black and very thick. The hardest part was cleaning off the old gasket and yes, I'm aware that the gasket probably had asbestos in it. No chunky bits of metal in the bottom of the differential and no evidence of water intrusion. I don't know what they put in that gear oil but it always smells nasty.

In went just a tad bit under two quarts and no leaks so far.

Rick

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

I finally got around to putting the letters on the truck's tail gate. I cleaned the paint with some strong rubbing alcohol to assist the adhesive. Then I sprayed some kind of "slick 'em" fluid on the paint that a local sign company gave me that allowed the letters to move around for a while to get them positioned.

Then I squeezed that fluid out from under each letter and the job was done. All in all, maybe forty five minutes for the job. The letters were less than ten dollars USD for the pack and I bought two packs in case I messed something up. That second pack is still complete.

Rick

[dsraven]

nice job on the lettering. gotta say, for me, it does look different with no rear bumper. funny how a person gets used to seeing something a particular way and then when you see something set up different it stands out

[dsraven]

do you have a limited slip diff? if so, there is an additive for the gear oil to make the clutches retain oil. otherwise the rear wheels may "skip" around a tight corner because the diff clutch plates want to stick together, like it is always locked up. that stuff stinks too, lol.

[dsraven]

https://partsavatar.ca/acdelco-diffe...gnET9YaxXFG3x-

[B52bobardier1]

Hello Dennis,

The 1979 Chevy C-10 donor truck chassis and frame that is under this Apache had and still has a 12-bolt, non-locking rear end with 3.08 gears. There is no telling what somebody had put into that differential over the years but it is not a limited slip.

It was a modern GL-5 gear oil that went back into the differential and it is a quiet rear end. No problems with it.

Rick

[dsraven]

well, glad you got it refreshed. that gear oil stinks for sure. the worst is the ford limited slip additive, it takes awhile to wear off if you happen to get it on you.
when i do diffs i have an old garden pump sprayer filled with solvent that I use to thoroughly flush the housing. I have added a metal tire valve stem to the body. the kind with the nut that tightens down and makes the rubber squeeze tighter. then I can add a few psi easily with my compressor line so I'm not always pumping the darn thing up. it works great when the whole diff is taken apart and needs a good flush cuz the wand and hose can be pushed down the axle tubes easily.

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

The letters in post #65 above continue to stay adhered to the tail gate and I'm very happy about how they look.

I'm not so happy that I've lost the speedometer functionality twice on this truck. Recalling post number 51 above back in December, I replaced the original speedometer that died a loud, screeching death with a very similar instrument panel cluster for about $75.00 USD or thereabouts off of eBay. That cluster worked OK but still carried the same 12-15 MPH fast error that the failed cluster exhibited. Now the eBay cluster has died a silent death but no matter how you slice it, the needle does not move from zero. I have checked both ends of the speedometer cable and both ends are solidly threaded and attached.

I still have last December's original cluster and I think it is time to send it off to North Hollywood Speedometer out in California for a rebuild. Nobody else responded to my request for a rebuild quote back in December so there it goes.

Rick

[dsraven]

reasons for a cable driven speedo to stop working
-cable is worn on the ends where it fits in and drives the speedo or is driven from the transmission end. if you unplug the cable from the back of the speedo and look at the cable, is it worn to be not square anymore? transmission end good?
-gear in trans is worn out
-gear adapter in trans is worn out or broken
-speedo is pocched

if youre removing the speedo you could easily check the cable and the speedo. does the speedo count miles on the odometer?

[nvrdone]

You could also have the wrong speedo drive gear in the trans. There are lots of articles on the internet that will help you figure out what drive gear you need based on the rear tire size

[B52bobardier1]

Hello,

I did not check the operation of the internal spinning cable for the speedometer because both ends were screwed down tightly - no looseness. I have only had this truck since last September and the cable appears almost new - installed by a previous owner.

That's an interesting question about the odometer miles wheels moving or not. I will have to check that.

I have a new "bullet gear" inside this transmission that did correct the speedometer error a little but only by 2-3 MPH. That drive gear that is deeper inside the tailshaft will require the removal of drive shaft and the tail shaft cover and I guess that is what I'm up against at this point. I have no idea which plastic gear is actually installed and I need to find these before I start this job. Its a TH350 transmission with a 3.08 set of differential gears and about 26 inches for a tire height.

Great advice above and I thank you.

Rick

[dsraven]

I have worked on a lot of city delivery trucks, back in the day, and a lot of them had speedo issues due to mileage mostly. some would have the normal square end on the inner cable but if that cable were pulled out a tiny bit the wear area could be seen where it actually was cobtacting and being driven, or was the driver, and often times that area was rounded off. the result was that the inner cable would sometimes move slightly inside the outer cable, and the square part would contact the drive mechanism, so the speedo would suddenly bounce or start to work. another common problem was that the cable would get a tight spot in it due to being pinched or bent to sharply. the result would be that the inner cable would "wind up" inside the outer, until it could overcome the torque required to turn inside the tight spot. this meant the speedo would bounce. sometimes the speedo mechanism would fail but the cable and trans gears were fine. it was apparent because the odometer was still working. some units had a gearbox adapetr attached at the trans to correct the ratio so the speedo would read correctly. these didn't fail often but it seems the steel used for the drive spindle was poor on some and would round off the square reciever part. possibly due to poor metal or maybe a worn out or poor set of internal gears with too much friction or too much friction in the whole cable set up downstream of the trans. sometimes, not that often, it would be due to worn out plastic gears inside the trans due to normal wear or from a hard to turn system downstream of the trans gears.
anyway, my point is, check all the parts before you send your speedo out so that when you assemble it for the last time it won't fail due to another part being "marginal"
the gears inside the trans can be checked visually for obvious problems by removing the cable adapter and looking inside the housing through that hole. turn the driveshaft so you can get a view of the whole gear as it turns. note the color of the gear because different gear ratios use different color gears inside there usually. the adapter is held in place by a U shaped retainer which can be removed so the adapter cab be pulled out. a trans shop or speedo shop should be able to tell you what gear set is required for your rear axle ratio and tire size thats on the truck. sometimes a ratio adapter may be required as well, which also come in different ratios