Enamel, lacquer, urethane? Which paint?

[rbruno68]

Originally Posted by Grounded63

PPG has a specific interior color paint line. DBI.

If it is still available. It's possible that it has been phased out by now. But, I would kinda expect, that since DBC is still available. It probably is also. I haven't had the need to buy any
In over a decade.

I actually asked yesterday if I gave them a Ditzler code from 1963 could they make the correct color. I got a “maybe” and you “may want to bring it in to paint match” and “we may have to ask” response. It was not a definite like TCP. Maybe I don’t have a great PPG dealer in my area.

[Grounded63]

Might not necessarily be the case. They may just be more honest.

TCP is just going to mix a formula from their in house brand data base, and send it. ( It may even be PPG, and they may not legally be allowed to disclose it ) If it doesn't match perfectly on your end. That's your existing aged 60+ year old paints problem.

PPG locally, is going to mix a formula of what it would have looked like originally/brand new. According to their data base. Depending on how your original 60+ year old paint has aged. Its probably not going to match perfectly. And will need to be tinted to match.

Also the the paint materials. Lacquer toners/metallics/pearls. That the vehicle was originally sprayed in. Haven't been available for multiple decades. So trying to color match perfectly. A newer paint system to an existing aged 60+ year old paint. Is always going to be a maybe. Especially when a distributor is dealing with a customer/vehicle face to face.

Edit.
Not to imply you are at either end of this spectrum. But, some customers can be especially unreasonably picky. And, others don't even care if the paint actually matches the OEM sprayed finish. As long as it has the correct color name on the can lable. That is also, probably, part of why you got a maybe, also.

[theastronaut]

On the inside, I'd go with single stage urethane with a flattening agent added in, this way you can shoot a test panel with varying amounts of flattener to match the original sheen, and it'll be more durable long term. Since it's single stage the metallic orientation with look "correct" compared to base/clear with flattened clear.

On the outside, I'd use epoxy over bare metal and test it over the original paint to see if it affects it. I use SPI epoxy, it has excellent adhesion and corrosion resistance but also builds thick enough that it can be used as somewhat of a high build with a couple of rounds of shooting it with three coats each round. This eliminates having multiple products and possible adhesion problems between them. It also stays open for 7 days so anything sprayed on top crosslinks with it.

For the blend areas on the outside, enamel or single stage urethane works. Is it a solid color or a metallic color? Is the original paint still in great shape (other than the patches) and polished to a gloss finish, or has it dulled out? You'll want to match the gloss level, not just the color, and if possible matching the original orange peel texture might be possible if a blending solvent won't attack and lift the original paint.

If you know of anyone with a body shop, ask if they'll let you have a few ounces of blending solvent, and spray a wet coat on a small area where you're planning a patch and see what happens. Ideally it'll only slightly soften the paint then set back up hard without causing it to crack and/or lift. If you can use it and the paint doesn't do anything weird and goes back hard it'll make blending much easier with a better outcome. Post some pics of the original paint so we can get an idea of the gloss level and texture when you get a chance, I can give better advise once I see what it looks like and what kind of finish you're trying to replicate on the blend areas.

[theastronaut]

This is one of my own that I did some blending on, but I clearcoated the whole car to make the sheen and texture even all over. Not sure if you've considered that or would be open to it, but it makes the blends much easier and undetectable, and future upkeep is way easier- it never fades or needs buffing.


As found, it had a fender in primer, one damaged fender around the headlight, and the deck lid needed some spots repaired. I stripped the areas that needed to be repaired, had the paint scanned for a good match in basecoat, spotted the repair areas and blended/faded the basecoat outward of the repairs for an undetectable color repair, then shot two coats of SPI Universal Clear with 7% flattenting agent added in. The light flattener percentage gives the paint a softer sheen, it's not full gloss but it's still pretty reflective; it has the look of 50 year old original paint that's been heavily polished. I left all the scratches and spots that were faded to primer to maintain the "original paint look", and the car looks like a pretty convincing survivor to 95% of people that see it.









Wet clear- very glossy, clear reflections.




After drying- the flattener softened the reflections a little, but not too much.

[rbruno68]

Originally Posted by Grounded63

Edit.
Not to imply you are at either end of this spectrum. But, some customers can be especially unreasonably picky. And, others don't even care if the paint actually matches the OEM sprayed finish. As long as it has the correct color name on the can lable. That is also, probably, part of why you got a maybe, also.

I get what you are saying. In seeming picky, it is really just my lack of knowledge and understanding. I also am slowly developing the vocabulary. I had no idea before really getting into this project all the different types of primers and paints and that some don’t like each other and some can go over the other but not the other way around. In another hobby of mine, I found the more information you get, the more questions that come up. At least, in my case that happens. So, I hope I am not appearing to be too picky but just want to do it right and learn at the same time.

[rbruno68]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

On the inside, I'd go with single stage urethane with a flattening agent added in, this way you can shoot a test panel with varying amounts of flattener to match the original sheen, and it'll be more durable long term. Since it's single stage the metallic orientation with look "correct" compared to base/clear with flattened clear.

On the outside, I'd use epoxy over bare metal and test it over the original paint to see if it affects it. I use SPI epoxy, it has excellent adhesion and corrosion resistance but also builds thick enough that it can be used as somewhat of a high build with a couple of rounds of shooting it with three coats each round. This eliminates having multiple products and possible adhesion problems between them. It also stays open for 7 days so anything sprayed on top crosslinks with it.

For the blend areas on the outside, enamel or single stage urethane works. Is it a solid color or a metallic color? Is the original paint still in great shape (other than the patches) and polished to a gloss finish, or has it dulled out? You'll want to match the gloss level, not just the color, and if possible matching the original orange peel texture might be possible if a blending solvent won't attack and lift the original paint.

If you know of anyone with a body shop, ask if they'll let you have a few ounces of blending solvent, and spray a wet coat on a small area where you're planning a patch and see what happens. Ideally it'll only slightly soften the paint then set back up hard without causing it to crack and/or lift. If you can use it and the paint doesn't do anything weird and goes back hard it'll make blending much easier with a better outcome. Post some pics of the original paint so we can get an idea of the gloss level and texture when you get a chance, I can give better advise once I see what it looks like and what kind of finish you're trying to replicate on the blend areas.

Thanks for both of your responses. The paint is solid and goes from barely gloss to faded and orange the further up the cab you go. So, that is why I am not as concerned with color matching as I am with adhesion and compatibility. Here are a couple pictures. The first one is on the A pillar that shows what was behind the window seal and then what has been exposed for 60 years. Clearly it has become more orange.


Here is the cab corner that I will paint. This is probably as red as it gets and gets progressively orange as you move up the cab. The doors have more orange on them than the bottom of the cab. Scrubbing might bring back some of the gloss, but not sure.


I have no illusions or maybe delusions that my painting will turn out like John’s VW. When I say blend, I mean more so like overspray into the area that is red/orange that is my original paint. Not blend it to look like a seamless patch and the paint aged or the same color as the original. I understand and accept that it won’t match.

[rbruno68]

Based on what has been posted on the interior. I have the two choices. Lacquer or urethane. If I understand the difference, they would be:
Lacquer, closer to original as far as being a flat paint, but less durable and subject to fade
Urethane, more durable but I would have to add a flattening agent to get it closer to an original dash.

I am sure there are more difference, but is that the basics? I would imagine urethane would be more compatible with primers and sealers?

[Grounded63]

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that you are being picky at all. Just that it's was another factor. That could influence their answer. When they are dealing with an unknown customer, over the phone.

The Exterior of your cab is an excellent example. Of why they will tell you maybe. It is not uniformly faded or worn. So if someone wants an exact color match for that red color code. It will not be anywhere close, to what the paint on the cab. Actually looks like now.

The lacquer is probably easier for someone with less experience. Both application and touch up wise. If you have any issues while spraying, Dirt/trash/painting errors.

The urethane SS will be more unforgiving. It'll just take a little more effort to correct issues.

The flattening agent isn't necessarily needed to be purchased individually by you. If you are buying pre-mixed paint, it would be mixed in for you. When you purchase the paint. You will basically be able to pick the " degree " of gloss that you want. And they will mix for that.