Help starter driving me nuts!....

[passthebuck]

any luck Phil?

[71 Blazer CST man]

ddsmith, the fuel system idea sounds genious! That sounds exactly like what happens to me, daily! I live in Nor. Cal, and the past 2-3 weeks have been about 100+ degres every day! If i go to start my blazer, and my foot is resting on the gas the slightest bit....it wont turn over...just keeps acting flooded. If i take my foot off, it cranks 1-2 more times then fires up. I finally figured...dont rest my foot on the gas when i start it! even though i dont think i'm pressing on it at all, apparently it's that sensitive. Now when i go to start after a hott ride, i keep my foot off the gas, but it still cranks 1-2 times like its flooded, then strongly fires right up. What you say might be why

[Lippyp]

I spent some time on Sunday rebuilding the new starter onto the old nose, which also involved swapping the solenoid piston over etc. Hopefull this will cure the alignment problems as the old one lined up fine and the new solenoid and motor will cure the hotstart problems (it will get wrapped in a refelective blanket. I have also ordered a rear bracket from Classic industries. Sadly the weather is now bloody awful with heavy showers and winds gusting up to 50 mph and I have to work outside so it's still sat on the bench. When it gets a bit dryer I'll get it fitted.

[chickenwing]

Another way to cure a solenoid heat soak problem is to bypass the starter mounted solenoid altogether with another solenoid. Had this problem in the past and I went to (sorry) a Ford starter solenoid. Never ever had a problem after that. Think MADD ? electric has a kit if you don't want to piece it together.

[Lippyp]

So I finally managed to get enough dry weather to refit the starter, worked fine cold, went for a test drive, got back stopped, restarted once fine, the second time the starter refused to disengage, the engine was spinning even without the keys in and I had to disconnect the battery to stop it, it's now too damned hot underneath to have a look and see what's happened. I am guessing either an electrical short or a stuck solenoid?

As always any suggestions welcomed. I may just have to grit my teeth and go down the mini starter route as this is just damned ridiculous. I am just about as fed up as it's possible to be.

[chickenwing]

I just had uncontrolled operation of my starter. The neutral safety switch had shorted out. Probably not your problem though, considering how long you have had starter problems.

[ddsmith]

Another thing to consider is that the starter gear could be loaded in a way to prevent disengagement. With normal clearances the starter gear disengages itself when the key is taken out of the start position. If binding occurs, it could keep the starter engaged and turning because the binding would prevent the gear disengagement and the disconnect of the positive supply to the starter. Normally when the solenoid de-energizes the spring in the solenoid and the way the drive gear is made ensures positive disengagement.(when the engine starts turning the starter, it throws the gear out of engagement) I don't think you have an electrical problem unless it is internally to the starter. It is possible that your key is providing juice to keep the starter engaged but I doubt it.

[flip66]

You need to make sure you have the right starter for the block, I though most 350 starters where the same but I had a problem on one I thought was a 75 block and turned out it had an 89 block and the starter was diffarent. I could not get it to line up it would work fine a couple of times then it would start hanging up or grinding. Kind of the same problem you are having I got the number off the block and put the 89 statrer in it solved all the problems.

[Lippyp]

Could it be that the ignition switch has committed suicide after all the strain? I have a different key for the doors and ignition and I think the ignition switch is original to the truck, the key has always been pretty sloppy in it as it's obviously pretty worn. I've checked the wires to the starter and they seem fine. After I disconnected the battery I touched the clamp to the battery terminal and there was a hefty spark as if there was still a big current draw. The starter had engaged and disengaged fine when cold and started fine when hot, just this refusal to disengage, as I had turned and removed the key surely all power should have been shut off to the starter pointing towards the ignition switch as a culprit.

Update: I've whipped the starter off and found that there was some threads from a rag I used wrapped around the little pinion bearing on the end of the shaft jamming it up so I guess that may have been the cause of the sticking problem. When I got under the truck this AM the bendix was disengaged from the ring gear.

I have two more questions:

1: Should I be able to turn the overrun clutch behind the bendix by hand? On the old starter the outer case spins pretty freely in either direction and the new one doesn't. I don't know if this is becase the old one is worn out or the new one is jammed.

2: Would having one normal bolt holding the starter on and one proper starter bolt allow it to shift around, maybe when hot, causing my misalignment problems? I didn't realise until today that they should be special bolts, the long one is with cross hatchings at the top but the short one seems to just be a normal bolt and is threaded all the way to the head. These were what the previous owner had used. Maybe the extra torque of the new healthy starter is the problem These I can get in the UK fortunately.

My supplier is reluctant to take the starter back as he doesn't think that there's anything wrong with it.

[passthebuck]

the cover on the bendix is just a cover & I dont think its a problem. All that matters is that the bendix gear turns one way & not the other. As for the special bolts, yes, I found that they do matter. the knurling is a big bigger than the bolt & helps to align the starter properly. Your GM dealer can get you that bolt, or one of our suppliers or a junkyard. Or here in CDA, you can also buy a bolt in a brand known as the "HELP" section. I do not reccomend these help bolts though - I've had them break for no reason BUT they're better than nothing. I can get you the bolt you need if you like. I'm sure I can find it at the junkyard.

[Lippyp]

We don't have GM dealers in the UK or at least not ones that carry Chevy/GMC spares, ours sell GM's european produced brands such as Vauxhall/Opel. I have acquired the correct bolts from a specialist dealer although they don't look to be a s good quality as the one original I have they should at least align the starter properly. The more I think about it the more likely it seems that this is the problem. I guess the old starter had been on there so long it was glued into place with crud!

On another note it seems that GM are rebranding a Korean brand they bought currently called Daewoo ("the biggest car company you've never heard of" was their marketing angle as it was a big conglomerate that produced everything from A?C units to earth-moving machinery to supertankers) into "Chevrolet Europe" and rebranding the cars as Chevys. The company started up with two car models which were actually older GM (Vauxhall) models they bought the production rights from GM for and facelifted (badkly!) They aslo gained a niche in the market by offering free servicing. Maybe we will eventually get decent GM dealers soon afetr all.

[Lippyp]

So, I have two new proper starter bolts in, a brand spanking new genuine GM starter brace, the starter has one shim under the outside bolt to make the little measuring rod a nice snug fit and all bolts are torqued to spec. It will happily start 10 times in a row when the engine is cold, when the engine is hot it is still refusing to engage, it spins and grinds but won't turn the engine. I don't see any way that the starter can move to go out of alignment as it seems as solid as a rock, the flexplate hasn't been touched or changed.

My supplier has reluctantly agreed to take it back (at my expense for the shipping) and have it tested but seems to think he has a very low failure rate on these starters and as this is the second one that seems to be faulty seems to be taking the attitude that it's my fault.

[flip66]

You really need to get the numbers off the block and make sure it is the year you think it is. Friend was having the same problem in 68 camaro with a 350 and it turned out it was the wrong starter for that year block. I would work about 6 or 7 times and all of the sudden it start grinding, you could adjust it and it would work 6 or 7 times then start grinding again.

[passthebuck]

hmmm. that sounds like heatsoak but I'm not sure. It could also be a bad battery cable. When the wire gets hot, resistance goes up & current flow goes down. It could also be that the flexplate is warping when heated too. Does the starter always grind at the same point on the flexplate? Is the flexplate worn at that point?

[Lippyp]

I've run the numbers and it's definitely a 69 block. The starter is physically identical to the one that came off apart from the minor details described above which people are saying doesn't matter. It's not the same symptomns as the old one, that was a heatsoak issue as when hot it just turned over slower and slower and eventually quit altogether when hot. This is a physical engagement problem. It may be that the bendix is only coming forward so far when hot and just tickling the edge of the ring gear, difficult to tell if the problem is flexplate related, I don't see why that wouldn be a problem with the new starter and not with the old.